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Critical Analysis #1
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Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC

0 posted 2000-10-27 01:40 PM


I think I shall sell snow.
At a price one poem per ounce
And advertise with posters wearing glitter.
(and some will come who read a euphemism
but that is not the brand I wish to vend)

Such a selection I command!
this - very good - vial of
First Flakes Trapped on Tounges -
but I see you are a serious shopper
Now this is very fine:
Powder Fresh Fallen on Child's Christmas Morning
No?  ah yes, you are wise indeed.
I offer then my premium
Crystals Clumped in Love's Long Lashes.
Not so fast dear consumer, my caveat is this:
you get so much as you pay for here.

Craft your stanzas then with care
Pages rife with ink can yet be bare
And you will barter nothing here with those.
Untwist that face, dear customer
there are no limits on these things.
here I will sit though my skin draw thin
I enjoy the keeping of this place.


ok, i think this needs a little help, especially considering i wrote it, or most of it on a plane....i need suggestions though, i cant quite figure what to fix.  thanx!      
luv Elyse



[This message has been edited by Elyse (edited 10-27-2000).]

© Copyright 2000 Elyse Wilcock - All Rights Reserved
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
1 posted 2000-10-27 02:05 PM


Hi Elyse,

Lovely idea. I loved the opening stanza. Some small suggestions though. Be a little more consistent in your capitalization scheme. Line 4 starts a new sentence and some places you capitalize i and others you do not. Also in line 4, "that" probably should be "who." Okay, I said they were small.

Now in the second stanza, I don;t like the dashes in line 2 or the slash ending line 4. That said, I loved your descriptions of the various wares.

quote:

First Flakes Trapped on Tounges -
Powder Fresh Fallen on Child's Christmas Morning
Crystals Clumped in Love's Long Lashes.



These are wonderfully crafted images.

I can't really find anything I don't like in the last stanza except I would prefer some punctuation. I know those who write free verse understand how to make the line breaks work for them but it just bothers me (a personal problem, I'm sure) particularly when you have used punctuation earlier.

Elyse, I can't really say why but I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Maybe I'm just in a sentimental mood today or maybe it really is outstanding. Keep up the good work.

Pete
(Not really all that funny a name though)

Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC
2 posted 2000-10-27 02:29 PM


ack!  yes, most of what you mentioned are alas typos, i have gotten used to processing programs that do my caps for me.  i shall fix these things (but not the dashes, as those were intended)  and you would be surprised the range of things that are funny when you are in such a state as to need to hide from the RAs  
luv Elyse



kid D
Member
since 2000-10-18
Posts 64

3 posted 2000-10-27 02:51 PM


i loved this, unique and very clever and yep am with not a poet...the description of the wares is great......all the way through it is woven so well.... really love this    

ok about the only thing i see is maybe to rework the lines in parenthesis, that is the only part that didn't read smoothly to me...maybe take off the and & replace it with a 'so' and take off the 'but'
to me it reads better and 'and' is not repeated at the beginning of 2 lines in a row, but it does change the emphasis a bit
gotta say it again...
i really love this  

YeshuJah Malikk
Member
since 2000-06-29
Posts 263

4 posted 2000-10-27 04:44 PM


Elyse, the poem is beautiful.  But I think it loses its focus in the last stanza, it almost reads as though it does not belong... not to the consumer/seller dialouge you established in stanzas one and two.  All in all a great idea for a poem.
Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC
5 posted 2000-10-27 06:16 PM


hi kid d!  wow, great idea!  i will totally do that.  gives it a better tone anyway  

yeshujah - hmm, but i thought i still was adressing the consumer.  i say their name (well, customer but still)  how bout some specifics to help a sleepy college girl comprehend?  

luv yas, Elyse

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
6 posted 2000-10-28 12:35 PM


Elyse,

This poem is bursting at the seams with poetential.  My first impressions are that when I read it, I get the feel of Comic verse.  A seller of snow...this concept intrigued me and captured my attention with wit and subtle humor.  However I thought a little more detailed outplay of ideas would have elevated the poem's effectiveness.

These verses are pristine to me

First Flakes Trapped on Tounges ...
Powder Fresh Fallen on Child' Christmas Morning
Crystals Clumped in Love's Long Lashes.

I also liked the half invisible dialogue thing you have going between the seller and the consumer during this part.  This is creative and descriptive.  However the expression of the poem seemed to become uncertain and a bit dull toward the end .  This is just my opinion.  It seemed an anticlimax to the lively flow that preceded it.  I sort of hoped for an end with a crux or twist of logic that tied the whole poem back to the idea of snow, maybe using words with double meaning, or some other kind of verbal clownery to drive that final nail in.  

These are just some initial thoughts.  Overall the poem is a great concept and has many thrilling segments.

warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

7 posted 2000-10-28 01:55 AM


Elyse,

This is a unique and delightful concept. I would take a vial of all three...perhaps an extra of your premium.

I think I might change the introductory stanza a little.

"I think I shall sell snow.
At a price one poem per ounce
And advertise with posters wearing glitter.
(and some will come who read a euphemism
but that is not the brand I wish to vend"

I think the first line is fine, but perhaps, "one poem per ounce shall be the cost" would sound better as a second line, or something similar. Then "I will advertise.." and maybe you could leave out the other reference; making it crystal clear what your product is.

The rest of the poem is great, though "tongues" is misspelled.

A very imaginative idea, Elyse, and an enjoyable poem.
mia

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
8 posted 2000-10-28 12:50 PM


elyse

LOL..the others have picked up on all the "easy" bits and the technical stuff, so what is there left to say?  

I must have read this poem 30 times and I still have this horrible feeling I'm missing something so fundamental as to not make it worth commenting until I know what it is.  For what it's worth i didn't feel the last stanza was out of keeping with the remainder, in fact it's that stanza that seems to me to suggest that there's more going on here than early readings would suggest.  

So fine - i'm in stupid mode right now. I'll print it out and give it a good going over after tea - coz i really can't make suggestions for improvement unless I have some clue as to what you're shooting for.

I should say, though, that you have some nice sounds, and as the others have said, clever ideas  

P

Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC
9 posted 2000-10-28 03:18 PM


stephanos - hi and thanx for reading and of course, the lovely compliments   its an interesting suggestion to try to tie it back in to the snow, ill see if i can figure something subtle that i like  

mia - thankyou darling for pointing out my spelling error.     no, but seriously.  thanx for the suggestions, but...i think i like the percussiveness of all those Ps in a line.  thanx tho!  

philip - wow, that is quite a lot of times to read a poem such as this.  maybe you're searching for something that isnt there?  is that possible?  i dunno.  if you dig up anything interesting, id be glad to see what you think it is.  am i cryptic?  or am i merely mysterious?  are these truly things to ponder over scones and Earl Grey?


luv Elyse  

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

10 posted 2000-10-29 05:12 AM


Hey Elyse...Philip led me to this and I am glad he did so...(he told me to say something nice about him...SP you are a very nice person...that should keep him happy...heh heh)

Now this poem of yours...

A teeny bit of technical stuff because it is the meaning that really interests me here.

First - I honestly think that the 'Morning' of:

'Powder Fresh Fallen on Child's Christmas Morning'

might do better as simply 'Morn'

Here is something that is perhaps very picky, but I don't think 'sell' in the first line links well with 'barter' in the third stanza. Even though technically this is a case of bartering - you can't then claim then to be selling it.  

As far as meaning: I came up with two interpretations - a Light and a Dark one.

Firstly, the Dark:

Snow. I wondered why it is you're selling snow...other than that it is nice, fluffy stuff that looks pretty - but that to me is just too much of an insipid reason.

Initially, I came to the conclusion that this poem had a rather dark nature - cloaked in 'snow.' I linked the title Ambition to the fickle nature of snow...something that melts and in the end - as a commodity is quite useless. To me, it perhaps represented buying up the treasure of people's souls (poems) for superficiality (snow).

I further linked that idea with the line:

'here I will sit though my skin draw thin'

another representation of superficiality.

This interpretation, when all elements are collated, consists of the consumer as a metaphoric representation for poetry - and it's richness...and the buyer as the cold-hearted unpoetic entity Ambition - either an individual or even the world who misunderstands the significance of poetry...

In the second interpretation however - a somewhat happier one - it is completely different lol.

It's fairly obvious that all three titles of your vials of snow are poetic topics - popular ones in fact. And that fact could be sufficient in itself to explain the choice of snow...

However, to me the light interpretation centres around progression.

The topics themselves indicate a progression through life. From a young child's first encounter with snow on the tongue. Then, an older child and finally - adult love. The line:

here I will sit though my skin draw thin

could indicate old age - the final stage...

There is also the progression of quality through the vials of snow...indicating their worth through the progression of quality in poetry.

To me both of these themes consolidate in the idea of:

'Pages rife with ink can yet be bare'

Both experience and quality can add to the words in a poem...

And I suppose the Ambition in this case is one of reaching the full potential poetically, represented through an enduring exploration of poetically archetypal snow...

yeah...that's me!

K



"He looked across the
silky surface of the Severn...
it was a famously difficult
river with fierce tides..."


From Jack Maggs


Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
11 posted 2000-10-29 06:54 AM


So she got here before me after all...lol ......

Well I’m still not much the wiser I have to say - though i think the euphemism reference has got to be to do with the idea that on the face of it the speaker could be seen to be being at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest selling something worthless for something of almost infinite value.  But i think we have to take the speaker’s protestations of innocence on that score at face value and accept that though (as she says) that could be one interpretation, the reality is that the “quality of the snow” is such that it might be a fair exchange ..no?  Hence the special snow - snow that has been imbued with something valuable - as set out in the second stanza.  As K suggests, maybe the something that its been imbued with is in fact a poetic value all of its own. “Crystals Clumped in Love's Long Lashes” certainly seems to point in that direction for instance.  So is this the speaker seeking to exchange something naturally poetic and beautiful but which she happens to possess in abundance, for something more artificially poetic but nevertheless still potentially valuable ie learning, knowledge, literature - humanly created poetry.

“Snow” for knowledge snow bound college girl Elyse?

My head hurts ......

bye bye .....lol  

P


Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC
12 posted 2000-10-29 11:24 AM


  can i just tell you all how good it feels that you spend so much time trying to firgure out my poem?  i mean really, it makes me feel all smart and good and stuff.  

kamla - i am very impressed by you!  those are two amazingly deep interpretations.  very interesting way of looking at things --i had never thought of some of those angles, which i suppose i shouldnt admit, and which is why i wont name specifics.

im not trying to be mean (or evil or what youwill  )  but i refuse to name an interpretation as correct.  most of the time i intentionally write to allow for multiple meanings.  and i think these you've suggested are wonderful  


philip - also an excellent interpretation.     i like this new view on euphemism, there is another one at play though, think of what "selling snow"  might be a euphemism for.  K hit my initial reason for "skin draw thin" ie old age.  but i like her other one as well.  stop banging your head on the wall my dear!  find an interpretation that suits you and go with it.

luv Elyse

ps, has anyone read Needful Things?

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
13 posted 2000-10-29 01:23 PM


Needful Things

quote:
As he has for hundreds of years, Gaunt sells citizens whatever pricks and satisfies their inmost desires. But the price dehumanizes them, and soon all the townsfolk vent their barest aggressions on each other with cleaver, knife, and gun: Gaunt even opens a sideline of automatic weapons. By novel's end, the whole town is on a hysterical, psychotic mass rampage that floods morgue and hospital with the delimbed and obliterated


great...lol... so LK might be near with dark ..lol

yes i know i know elyse one amongst many of my failings is the burning desire to pin poems down to one single meaning and moreover the RIGHT meaning ie the one intended by the author ..... which gets kinda tricky if the writer didn't intend ONE .. brad is teaching me though  , and now you !

"selling snow to eskimos"? yes?  well that's what i had in mind sort of .. i guess ..as well ....

sheesh this poem is as slippery as the substance it's about ...

this time i really am going to go lie down...

P

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

14 posted 2000-10-29 05:44 PM




Needful things...brrrr...spooky book...

I agree Elyse - pinning down a poem to one interpretation is a feat impossible...

Well - 'the cat
        sat on the mat'

could be an exception lol...

SP - you've been told! Find and interp. hon and just go with it....

heh

K

"He looked across the
silky surface of the Severn...
it was a famously difficult
river with fierce tides..."


From Jack Maggs


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