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bboog
Member
since 2000-02-29
Posts 303
Valencia, California

0 posted 2000-03-06 10:36 PM


Shall I compare you to a winter’s day?
You are more dark and full of misery.
The hunchbacked trees never once complain
About the wind or snow or stormy sea.
But you? I think you’d wish upon mankind
The blessing of an egregious tax bill.
Perhaps the problem is not in your mind
Just the mirror of time makes you ill.
The red-brown blossom with cuffless pants
Became a tree with an old gnarled hand.
True beauty seeks escape, it takes a chance
And leaves its own mark. Do you understand?
To make beauty grow in a lover’s heart
Give it some room or it will fall apart.



[This message has been edited by bboog (edited 03-10-2000).]

© Copyright 2000 Robert Boog - All Rights Reserved
Ted Reynolds
Member
since 1999-12-15
Posts 331

1 posted 2000-03-07 07:13 AM


It seems obvious to reverse one of the most well-known Shakespeare sonnets, but in 400 years I don't know that's it's been done before.  Those first two lines make me want this to work so desperately that I feel like being a godfather to this poem.  It just might hit the anthologies, if it works out a few problems.  (You knew this gang wouldn't leave even Shakespeare alone without trying to improve it, right?)  ALL OF THIS IS JUST MY OWN OPINION!
     First, I think you've just got to get this back to the same rhyme scheme as W.S.'s sonnets(ABABCDCDEFEFGG).  Line 6 is off in meter, fix it.  (So is line 9, but somehow that works!)  That done, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the *contents* of lines 1 through 9, they're really neatly crafted.  
     Then I think work needs to be done on lines 10 through 14, the meter's off, new topics (cold feet?, darling?, money?,) ending could be stronger.  Let's see what others say.
   Work on it, I'd say.  This could be more than a keeper.
     But DON'T show it to him/her, unless you want to risk an explosion.  Few lovers are that understanding.  
      



Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
2 posted 2000-03-07 01:20 PM


I like what you are trying to do here.  I am actually not all that familiar with the work of Shakespeare but I would like to offer this warning after reading Ted's comments and those from your previous post (Stopping by a Corner):
If you are going to use famous works and then reverse/twist them to fit your meaning, which I find to be an interesting yet challenging tecnique, then you will have to live up to the high standards of the original work.  For the work to truly be successful, you will need to out-do (or atleast closely match)the work by Frost or Shakespeare or whoever.  In a way, you are placing your work next to theirs for comparison, in some ways as a challenge.  This is a challenge that even the best modern-day poets would probably find very difficult (partially because famous authors like W.S. and R.F helped to form the very models which we now use to decide what is good writing).  Anyway, I'm sort of rambling, but I just wanted to advise you to be as technically sound when paralleling these poems as possible in order to allow your poems to have a fighting chance with the reader.

Disclaimer:  The previous statement is only my opinion.
    

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
3 posted 2000-03-07 03:58 PM


Hello bboog,

I too liked the twist with the Shakespearean idea.

along with Ted's meter catches...line three's meter seems off, one beat too long.

I liked the content other than the last two lines,
"Find good in life despite the outside cold
Then our love inside will never grow old."
It just seemed to go from ten lines of a bitch and moan session into a life-lesson-preachy thing. Personally I think a more subtle wrap up might be better, just an opinion.

Anyways, thanks for the read, nice to have you here at CA and take care,
Trevor


bboog
Member
since 2000-02-29
Posts 303
Valencia, California
4 posted 2000-03-07 07:13 PM


To Ted Reynolds,Kirk T Walker, and Trevor: First of all, thank you for reading and responding. I really feel guilty sometimes not being able to read and respond to some of the other posts that are out there, and so I really appreciate your input. I had written this "art-poem" as a lark one rainy evening coming home in an airport shuttle bus and the first edition was only ten lines. I posted it on another web site where jbouder read it and suggested that I really try to make it into a sonnet. So after working on one sonnet I added some lines and tried to pass it off as a finished product. (In other words, thanks again and I'll continue to work on it.)
best regards,
bboog

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
5 posted 2000-03-07 10:16 PM


bboog:

Glad to see you're back for more and that we didn't scare you off yet.       I'm also glad to see that you decided to work on this poem a little more.  I liked it when I read it the first time and I think I like it more now.  Let's take a look.

"Shall I compare you to a winter’s day?
You are more dark and full of misery."

I love your opener.  The comparison to Shakespeare's famous sonnet is unmistakeable.

"Hunchbacked trees will never once complain
About the wind or snow or stormy sea.
But you? I think you’d want all of mankind
To feel the joy of a monthly tax bill."

I had to laugh when I read this.  I am encouraged that you understood Shakespeare's sonnet enough to realize that his "love" was too good to be compared to a mere summer's day.  This woman is obviously too miserable to be compared to a frigid winter's day.  

I think if you add "The" before "hunchbacked" your missing syllable will be remedied.  The meter on the next two lines is a little off.  A few little tweaks:

"But you? I think you’d wish upon mankind
The blessing of a monthly school-tax bill."

You were missing a syllable in "The joy ..." line so I made a few suggested changes.  By adding "school" before tax the meter is corrected. "Blessing" and "school" are only suggestions to show you one way you can tweak the line a little.  My feelings won't be hurt if you tell me to jump off a bridge.  What kind of evil woman, btw, would wish something as ugly as a tax bill upon another monthly?  *Shudder*    

"Perhaps the problem is not in your mind Just the mirror of time makes you ill."

The meter in the first line here is a little off:  "per-HAPS / the MIR- / -ror of / TIME MAKES / you ILL".  The third and fourth feet are actuall fairly common variations in English meter but I would feel more comfortable knowing the variation was deliberate.  As a general rule, I think it is a good idea to know how two write in iambic pentameter well before playing with the common variations.  You may already be at that level, I don't know.  You are the best judge of your own ability.  

I like what you did with the content of these lines.  It is clear you are moving toward some sort of resolution.

"The red-brown blossom with cuffless pants
Became a tree with an old gnarled hand.
Beauty lives by escaping. Take a chance
And let worry go. Soon you’ll understand
To make beauty grow in a lover’s heart
Give it some room or it will fall apart."

I like that you worked your original poem into the sonnet format.  These little buggers are hard to write, though.  I don't have my copy of Shakespeare's sonnets handy so I can't compare the content of your final lines with his.  If you didn't use the latter half of his sonnet as a model I would suggest that you do but I really do like your resolution.  The first half of your sonnet is very witty.  

Here are a few suggestions on the last few lines:

"The red-brown blossom wearing cuffless pants
Became a tree with old and gnarled hand;
Your beauty seeks escape so take a chance
And when your worry goes you’ll understand
That beauty grows within your lover’s heart
So give it room or it will fall apart."

I think this addresses some of the choppiness and meter irregularities but they are only suggestions.  These are very minor tweaks and you've done all the work and good work at that.  Thanks for the read, bboog.  I enjoyed this.

Jim

P.S.  I noticed you are in real estate too.  What is it about real estate people and poetry anyway?  

P.P.S.  And you can call me Jim.



[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 03-08-2000).]

Ted Reynolds
Member
since 1999-12-15
Posts 331

6 posted 2000-03-08 07:26 AM


I really like the new version.  You show one of the great necessities for a creative talent -- you *listen* and *take criticism.*  And the improvement shows.  Congrats.
bboog
Member
since 2000-02-29
Posts 303
Valencia, California
7 posted 2000-03-09 02:45 AM


To Jim and Ted Reynolds: Thank you for your help and your encouragement. I played around with the poem a little bit tonight, am not sure about the meter but the message was more of what I wanted.
To Jim: Ah yes, real estate and poetry. Actually I have a Web site with an "inspiring stories" section in it. I received an e-mail from a minister in Texas who suggested that I post his poem. I did, and about one month later, I received a very angry response from the real author, demanding that I pay her money. (Her poem was copyrighted.) I told her that I would remove it immediately and then she sent me a second scathing email claiming that the reason I'd stolen her work was because I couldn't write poetry. We went back and forth and I wanted to prove that she was wrong about writing poetry. But actually I found out that she was right. I wasn't very good at writing her kind of poems. My editor said that my rhymes sucked. She suggested that I just write about something that I knew and not worry about rhyme or meter, and so I did. I wrote a poem about my pet bird. (I posted it on one of the forums here.) She really liked it and suggested that I submit it to the Scroll, as she said that a poet there named Brian Long would be brutally honest and could probably help me. So a few months ago, I began submitting poems to the scroll. Something happened there as you know and it's a shame. In the meantime, I have a novel coming out soon, so writing poetry has helped me- especially when correcting the galleys. What is your story?
bboog (you can call me b)
)

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