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A response to jbouder's South Pacific Perspectives (in other words, no title yet)
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Critical Analysis #1
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A response to jbouder's South Pacific Perspectives (in other words, no title yet)
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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A response to jbouder's South Pacific Perspectives (in other words, no title yet) |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
Swift, silent, hugging the ground. The fifth horseman of the apocalypse come to run an errand. Far above, glints of lightning littering the sky, a fatal dance of fireworks. No matter though, for still, the mission. In the distance, a factory, filled with ashes, dead spirits. But still, the mission. And then, before other thoughts come, a Luftwaffe nightmare, bright fire visions, nearing blackness. "Remember the Alamo," "Semper Fi," and all other childhood (bootcamp) patriotic memories losing their meaning in the face of onrushing earth. The wreckage smoldering hours later. He, lying there watching, understanding, waiting for death. In the distance, a factory, still churning out ashes, like snow on a midsummer's day. [This message has been edited by Ryan (edited 02-16-2000).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hey HULK...errr...Ryan, "Swift, silent, hugging the ground." I didn't think silent fit. Wouldn't there be more of a hum? "The fifth horseman of the apocalypse come to run an errand." I found the "fifth horseman" a little too close to being cliched. Consider keeping apocalypse and changing the first descript. to relate to a plane. "Far above, glints of lightning littering the sky, a fatal dance of fireworks." Consider switching the order of the last two lines. "No matter though, for still, the mission." Consider adding "is" at the end of the second line to give a double meaning, "for still is the mission", meaning the target is stantionary and the mission is still left to do. "In the distance, a factory, filled with ashes, dead spirits." I thought you could have expanded on this stanza giving a little more descrip. "But still, the mission." That stanza seemed unnecessary. "And then, before other thoughts come," Consider elaborating or rewording, it kinda came off a little clunky. "a Luftwaffe nightmare, bright fire visions, nearing blackness. "Remember the Alamo," "Semper Fi," and all other childhood (bootcamp)" Consider chopping out the last line here. "patriotic memories losing their meaning in the face of onrushing earth." I liked the way you told the reader the nationality of the shot down pilot..."Semper Fi",etc. "The wreckage smoldering hours later. He, lying there watching, understanding, waiting for death." I thought you could of condensed this part a bit, ie. "The wreckage smoldering, He crumpled there, now understanding the wait for death." "In the distance, a factory, still churning out ashes, like snow on a midsummer's day." Through the whole poem I pictured it night time, I think this was because of the lightening made me just think that it was a night run. Thought I'd just let ya know even though day works as well. I did think that this last stanza was a really good way to end it and the strongest part of this poem. Thanks for the read Dr. Banner...a.k.a....THE HULK  Take care,Trevear |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
"I didn't think silent fit. Wouldn't there be more of a hum?" Maybe, but I'm thinking silent as in unseen. Maybe something more along those lines instead of silent though. "I found the 'fifth horseman' a little too close to being cliched. Consider keeping apocalypse and changing the first descript. to relate to a plane." Nah, I like fifth horseman. A plane can be seen as a horse, with the pilot as the horseman, and since the mission is to bring death and destruction (though not the focus of the poem), I think it fits in with the horsemen of the apocalypse idea. Also, I use horsemen for personal reason b/c I was thinking of the P-51 Mustang as the plane when I wrote this. Horseman can be an allusion to that. "Consider switching the order of the last two lines." Hmmm, I like how it sounds both ways. Not sure which is better yet. I'll think about that one. "Consider adding 'is' at the end of the second line to give a double meaning, "for still is the mission", meaning the target is stantionary and the mission is still left to do." Interesting idea. I'll think about that too. "I thought you could have expanded on this stanza giving a little more descrip." I dunno about that. I purposely left it vague, but I'm not sure if it's too vague. I do have a specific idea for what this factory is (it's the point of the poem), so let me know what you see it as. If it does end up being too vague, I'll go back and work on it. "That stanza seemed unnecessary." You're right. I felt that way too. Just feel that something needs to go there. Not sure what though. "Consider chopping out the last line here." I like it, but I'll keep myself open. "I thought you could of condensed this part a bit, ie. 'The wreckage smoldering, He crumpled there, now understanding the wait for death.'" Death (or the wait for death) isn't what he's understanding, but I might be able to cut a few other words out (I like it better with the hours later gone, like you just did). "Through the whole poem I pictured it night time, I think this was because of the lightening made me just think that it was a night run. Thought I'd just let ya know even though day works as well. I did think that this last stanza was a really good way to end it and the strongest part of this poem." I don't think it matters b/c the last line is more of a metaphor, not really referring to the actual time of day (although day was what I pictured). The lightening can be seen as several things. It can be literal, or it can also be the the gun rounds in the air (that would be more of a night image, I guess). I also used lightning b/c of the P-38 Lightning (trivia: the P-38 was the only US plane produced throughout the whole of WW2). I was picturing escorts above the pilot trying to cover for the main mission and dogfighting with German fighters. The glints of lightning is the sun occasionally reflecting off of the hull of the fighters above. Anyway, thanks for the critique. Fortunately for you, I'm in a good mood so you won't have to deal with a mad Hulk today. *grins* Bubye. Ryan I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till i drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion. —Jack Kerouac |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Ryan: First, you can call me Jim. Only my mom calls me jbouder.  Second, let's get to your poem. I read this poem this morning (your title is catchy, you know) and was hoping I would get to it before you explained too much. Anyway, before I look at the comments I want a shot at understanding this one."Swift, silent, hugging the ground. The fifth horseman of the apocalypse come to run an errand. Far above, glints of lightning littering the sky, a fatal dance of fireworks." The only problem I have with the first stanza is the "silent" part. "Hugging the ground" gives me the impression that you are describing some sort of aircraft flying low to avoid enemy radar and/or fire. "Luftwaffe" tells me this is WWII era Europe and a low flying plane in that time made a good bit of noise. Maybe I'm just being too picky. I like the "Fifth Horseman" but because there are only "Four Horsemen" I don't quite know which one you are talking about. Maybe you should select one of the specific four. War seems to be the obvious choice but I suppose you could just as easily select Death. Perhaps you should give the Fifth Horseman a name. The only reason I suggest this is because the "Fifth Horseman" sounds ominous (because of the other four) but because there is no fifth I really don't get much of a picture. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I especially like the "lightning" imagery. It brings to mind two things: (1) the anti-aircraft artillary and (2) the P-38 Lightning. "High above" is especially appropriate for the P-38 (it had an unusually high ceiling for a WWII fighter). I've read some of your other work and I think you could do better than "a fatal dance of fireworks". "No matter though, for still, the mission." Quite stoic. My thinking is that this is a B-17 bomber pilot. The B-17 took a pounding throughout the European war until they had adequate escorts and any of these pilots would have to put mission over self. "In the distance, a factory, filled with ashes, dead spirits." This calls to mind the fire bombings of Dresden. Good image and another reason I think you are talking about the B-17. Another thought just occurred to me ... is the factory a concentration camp? The ashes those of murdered Jews? "But still, the mission." I'm not sure about the repetition here. "And then, before other thoughts come, a Luftwaffe nightmare," German fighters attack. "bright fire visions, nearing blackness. 'Remember the Alamo,' 'Semper Fi,' and all other childhood (bootcamp) patriotic memories losing their meaning in the face of onrushing earth." Shot down by German fighters? Good images. You may want to phrase one of the battle cries "Semper Fi or die" instead of "Semper Fi". Did Marines fly bombers in Europe during WWII? I remember reading about the "Flying Leathernecks" who were Marinie pilots in the South Pacific but I never heard of Marine flyers in Europe. "The wreckage smoldering hours later. He, lying there watching, understanding, waiting for death. In the distance, a factory, still churning out ashes, like snow on a midsummer's day." "He" (the pilot) has seemed very detached throughout this poem. Was this the effect you were going for? It seemed almost like he was dead before he ever hit the ground ... either that or he suspected he was going to die. Just read your explanation. Clever with the horseman/Mustang allusion. Was he understanding what the source of the ashes were? Just curious. Since you already have Lightnings, why not Thunderbolts? I loved the Thunderbolts. Thanks for the read. I'm glad something I wrote inspired you to write something along the same lines and I enjoyed reading this. Later, Jim |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
Hey, sorry I took so long to get back to this. The real world manages to keep me busy. Anyway, thanks Jim (I just don't think I fit the requirements to be a mother figure *grins*) for the critique. Here goes my response. "The only problem I have with the first stanza is the "silent" part. 'Hugging the ground' gives me the impression that you are describing some sort of aircraft flying low to avoid enemy radar and/or fire. 'Luftwaffe' tells me this is WWII era Europe and a low flying plane in that time made a good bit of noise. Maybe I'm just being too picky." You're number two on the word "silent," so I'll try to find something more appropriate. "I like the 'Fifth Horseman' but because there are only 'Four Horsemen' I don't quite know which one you are talking about. Maybe you should select one of the specific four. War seems to be the obvious choice but I suppose you could just as easily select Death. Perhaps you should give the Fifth Horseman a name. The only reason I suggest this is because the 'Fifth Horseman' sounds ominous (because of the other four) but because there is no fifth I really don't get much of a picture. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?" Yeah, I get what your saying. I'll have to think about that. I mainly used it because I thought it sounded cool (ahh, the intricate workings of the poetic mind *grins*), but perhaps something different would convey a better image. "I especially like the 'lightning' imagery. It brings to mind two things: (1) the anti-aircraft artillary and (2) the P-38 Lightning. 'High above' is especially appropriate for the P-38 (it had an unusually high ceiling for a WWII fighter)." Yes, like I said to Trevor, the P-38 was what the original image I had in my mind. "I've read some of your other work and I think you could do better than 'a fatal dance of fireworks'." Once again, I agree. I bet I could find something better than fireworks. I've got a friend who uses alliteration a lot and for some reason, it just became contagious in that stanza. That's probably where fireworks came from. "Quite stoic. My thinking is that this is a B-17 bomber pilot. The B-17 took a pounding throughout the European war until they had adequate escorts and any of these pilots would have to put mission over self." Good point, but like I bet you figured out when you read my explanation for Trevor, not what I was going at. Still, interesting idea. "This calls to mind the fire bombings of Dresden. Good image and another reason I think you are talking about the B-17. Another thought just occurred to me ... is the factory a concentration camp? The ashes those of murdered Jews?" Yaaay. You got it right (well, I guess the topic's not something to be cheering about, but still, somebody got my symbolism, and that's cause for celebration). Yes, the factories are intended to be concentration camps. "Shot down by German fighters? Good images. You may want to phrase one of the battle cries 'Semper Fi or die' instead of 'Semper Fi'. Did Marines fly bombers in Europe during WWII? I remember reading about the 'Flying Leathernecks' who were Marinie pilots in the South Pacific but I never heard of Marine flyers in Europe." Truthfully, I don't know about that one. I just liked the sound of Semper Fi (once again, there's my very poetic mind at work), so I used it. To me, it brings about images of loyalty and honor. But I might do some research on that. I'd like to know, now that you bring it up. "'He' (the pilot) has seemed very detached throughout this poem. Was this the effect you were going for? It seemed almost like he was dead before he ever hit the ground ... either that or he suspected he was going to die. Just read your explanation. Clever with the horseman/Mustang allusion. Was he understanding what the source of the ashes were? Just curious. Since you already have Lightnings, why not Thunderbolts? I loved the Thunderbolts." Yeah, I was going for a detached character. I didn't originally intend this, but maybe I can change the plane to a B-17, and then compare his bombing of civilians (such as Dresden, as you pointed out), to the concentration camps. That might add a little something to the poem. And it would free me up to work on the horsemen of the apocalypse image. Hmmmm, I think I like that. Thanks for the thought provoking ideas. Whenver I get some free time to do the revisions, I'll go ahead and post it up. Oh, and yes, the pilot was realizing what the "factory" was after he'd crashed. Anyways, I've gotta go back to the wonderful world of American Government class projects. It's ohhh so much fun. Ryan I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till i drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion. —Jack Kerouac |
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A response to jbouder's South Pacific Perspectives (in other words, no title yet)
