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Critical Analysis #1
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captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.

0 posted 2000-02-05 01:58 PM


On He speeds through the jeweled void.
Past foaming reefs of stars,
bound inside a black satin sea.
Not quite home, and not yet tomb.

And old dreams of love and pain,
older than the stars themselves.
When the ebon sea was empty, a sterile childless womb.
Come still vivid many times over enjoyed.

To be tossed onward, towards lights of milk,
through an ocean of many mothers.
Arriving under this far rim of sky,
though passing twice ten thousand by.

To a place where love is sweet and home is fair.
Is it heart, or soul, that draws him there?
Yet home is anywhere for such as he,
all his the vast bespeckled sea.






 Cap. Carg.

© Copyright 2000 captaincargo - All Rights Reserved
lily
Junior Member
since 1999-12-27
Posts 16
united states
1 posted 2000-02-05 02:50 PM


I LOVE THIS POEM!!!!!! the imagery is amazing and i love your use of words! this is honestly exquisite! i love it!
roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
2 posted 2000-02-06 12:21 PM


the images in this poem were really well-described.  is it just me, or have you not been here in a while?  i feel like i haven't seen many of your poems lately, but i haven't been here much lately either.  this is good though, the thoughts on the sea are pretty original, which is hard to do with something so oft-described.
captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.
3 posted 2000-02-06 12:17 PM


Thanks Lily and Roxane.
And no Roxane I haven't been here in a while. I have been working on a Sci-fi novel. My "real" calling sometimes doesn't leave me much time for dabbling. But I missed this particular forum and it's multi-faceted taste. Or maybe the truth is, I just missed reading your Poetry.  
My biggest problem is that the net is such a terrible time-sink, if I'm not careful I don't ever get anything done.  

Thanks, for the comments.

Cap.

"...
No one is so accursed by fate,
No one so utterly desolate,
       But some heart, though unknown,
       Responds unto his own. ...."

                 Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

                          "Endymion"



 Cap. Carg.

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
4 posted 2000-02-06 02:19 PM


Hello Capt.,

I couldn't help but be reminded of the old "Silver Surfer" comic books, was there any inspiration derived from it?

"On He speeds through the jeweled void.
Past foaming reefs of stars,
bound inside a black satin sea.
Not quite home, and not yet tomb."

Thought this stanza was amazing especially the last two lines. Couple of suggestions though, consider using a comma instead of a period on the third line. Also, was it a contridiction you were going for with "jeweled void"? If so it doesn't really fit in my opinion and if not you might consider expanding (what is it void of?) or changing it because something with stars and planets, etc. isn't really a "void".

"And old dreams of love and pain,
older than the stars themselves.
When the ebon sea was empty, a sterile childless womb.
Come still vivid many times over enjoyed."

I liked the idea in this stanza though I thought the wording was a little muddled and jumpy. The first two lines are solid then the third goes on to repeat what was said in the second and the fourth kinda repeats the first. Perhaps the punctuation could be changed as well, maybe commas instead of periods. Also consider elaborating on how the memories make the character feel. One more thing, I liked the change in length for the third line, here's one suggestion to help inspire change if you feel this part needs it:


"When the ebon sea was empty, a sterile childless womb,
still vivid many times over enjoyed,
old dreams of love and pain."

I dunno...just a suggestion...don't know how much that would change the exact meaning you were going for and I know it doesn't keep with the four-line stanza thing ya got going.

"To be tossed onward, towards lights of milk,
through an ocean of many mothers.
Arriving under this far rim of sky,
though passing twice ten thousand by."

At first the "milk" part didn't read well but then it seemed to just "click" with the "mothers" part nicely. I really liked the flow and meaning to the last two lines. Well done. Actually wanted this stanza to keep going....left me hungry.

"To a place where love is sweet and home is fair.
Is it heart, or soul, that draws him there?
Yet home is anywhere for such as he,
all his the vast bespeckled sea."


Excellent ending...."vast bespeckled sea."...really good stuff. The only suggestion I have is consider adding a line break after his, just a thought, either way it worked for me.

Thanks for the good read, take care,
Trevor





captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.
5 posted 2000-02-06 05:19 PM


Trevor, thanks. I really rushed the second stanza, and should've taken more time with it.(but that's me)
Your sequencing really does work much better. Funny you should mention the word silver. In the first draft the line read "toward silver lights of milk"
The poem is not about an earthly sea however. The void/sea is space itself, and stars of milk the milky way, the many mothers, stars. Start with that, and maybe you come up with a different view of the piece. So Silver Surfer is very perceptive of you.

Thanks for the help!

Cap.



 Cap. Carg.

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
6 posted 2000-02-07 02:21 AM


Hey Catain,

The meaning of your poem rang perfectly clear....I understood that it was about space, you did an excellent job of portraying it. "Silver Surfer", the comic, was actually about a "being", can't remember if he was a human or not), forced to travel throughout the entire universe delivering messages for a god-like being called "Galactacus", and if memory serves correct, he escaped and wander aimlessly throughout the universe looking to find a way to become what he once was. And the description of the universe and of old love and pains really brought back my memories of a cradboard box I used to have filled with comic books. Anyways I thought I'd add this in so you don't feel as if your poem didn't portray the imagery you were going for cause like I've said, you did an excellent job with it. Thanks again and take care,
Trevor

Hyperion
New Member
since 1999-11-26
Posts 7
Corning, N.Y.
7 posted 2000-02-07 03:19 PM


1



[This message has been edited by Hyperion (edited 02-07-2000).]

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
8 posted 2000-02-07 04:08 PM


Hey Cap:

I know Trevour thinks he beat me to the Silver Surfer thing but I thought it first!  

"On He speeds through the jeweled void.
Past foaming reefs of stars,"

You describe stars as both jewels and reefs here.  Space has lots of interesting things ... perhaps "Past gaseous reefs" or "Past belted, rocky reefs" or something like that.

"bound inside a black satin sea.
Not quite home, and not yet tomb."

I think "Not quite home, not yet a tomb" would read better here.

"Old dreams of love and pain,
older than the stars themselves,
When the ebon sea was empty, a sterile childless womb,
Come still vivid many times over enjoyed."

Is this inspired by the Silver Surfer or is it a poem ABOUT the Silver Surfer?  The Surfer was from an early, sentient race that (I think) Galactus destroyed.  Correct my Marvel Comic lore if I'm wrong.  

"To be tossed onward, towards lights of milk,
through an ocean of many mothers."

I like the imagery here.  Perhaps "To be tossed onward, through a glowing sea of mothers' milk" would be more concise.  Just a thought.

"Arriving under this far rim of sky,
though passing twice ten thousand by
to a place where love is sweet and home is fair."

Be careful of breaking sentences in two.  A couple of times in your poem you unnecessarily inserted a period and followed immediately after with a conjunction. This tends to make a poem read choppy.  An excellent, easy to read, and most importantly SHORT book that would be helpful to you is "Elements of Style" by William Strunk Jr. & E. B. White.  It should cost less than $6.00 at Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com.  I bought my first copy in 1988 and still reference it regularly.

"Is it heart, or soul, that draws him there?
Yet home is anywhere for such as he,
all his the vast bespeckled sea."

I really enjoyed this ending.  You have strong images and good wording throughout this poem.  There were a few places where I thought the sound could be improved but, besides that, this was an excellent effort on your part.  Thanks for the read.




 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." - Martin Luther


jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
9 posted 2000-02-07 06:31 PM


hey there cap--

i liked this piece, it has a very nice tone and feel to it.  your punctuation makes things a little confusing at times, though.  

in the first stanza, i like "jeweled void" and "foaming reefs of stars," i wouldn't change these, they're quite beautiful.  the period at the end of the third line bothers me, though; at first i read the fourth line as saying that "He" was not quite home yet from his speeding travels, and not yet a tomb (which didn't make much sense), but you're really describing the "black satin sea", no?  i think a comma would work better there.  

in the second stanza, i'd lose the periods at the ends of lines 2 and 3.  the way it is now, lines 1 and 2 don't make a complete sentence, and line 3 is just hanging there.  in line 4, i have a hard time with enjoying vivid old dreams of pain; love, certainly, but love AND pain?  and "come still vivid many times over enjoyed", i don't know, seemed a tad awkward to me.  

i don't think you want a period at the end of the second stanza, either; aren't you saying that the old dreams come to be tossed onward?  if so, you should end the second stanza with a comma, or with no punctuation marks at all.  if it's the spaceguy, that's another story, and the period is fine.  same goes with the period at the end of the second line of the third stanza; if the dreams are arriving, then the line before should end with a comma, but i think here it's the spaceguy who is arriving?  am i wrong about this?  at all events, your readers might not have this confusion if your punctuation was more reliable, lol.  

the final stanza: "to a place where love is sweet and home is fair" is a beautiful line, but, again, i'm lost.  this may well be jenni being dense, but is it the spaceguy that is speeding to this place, or the dreams that are arriving [at] this place?  i don't think it's a clear as it could be.  if it's the dreams, then, as i just suggested, shouldn't they be arriving AT the place?  i think it's the spaceguy, though, am i right?  but then i have a problem, kind of, with the ending.  if the spaceguy is speeding to a place where love is sweet and home is fair, why, then, do you say that ANYwhere is home to him?  i think that takes away some from the beautiful sense of longing in the piece.  i would think the point would be that he is away from home, not that he's at home anywhere.  if he's home ANYWHERE, what's his problem?  and saying home is a certain place, but home is really anywhere, seems like a contradiction to me.  but again, this could well be jenni being dense, lol.  

one more thing, then i promise to shut up, lol.  "Is it heart, or soul, that draws him there?" seemed a little vague, and i don't really see any contrast between them anyway.  

maybe i need to read this silver surfer stuff to understand?  gosh, barbie was never this complicated, lol.  

one thing i really loved about the piece, though, and i've seen it in others you've posted, too, is the wonderful tone, conveying (to me, anyway, one ignorant of most comic books, lol) a deep sense of longing.  the ocean of many mothers, lights of milk, and the childless womb of the empty ebon sea was a very nice touch, and many of your lines are just a joy to read.  

thanks for an interesting read!

jenni

captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.
10 posted 2000-02-07 11:50 PM


Jenni, gee where do i start?  

First, thanks for taking the time for looking this over. I'm glad I don't write poems for a living. If I did it would be the perfect diet plan.

As to a couple of things:
"Not quite home" Means, the Universe as a whole is not quite his "home" although he exists in it. And has free rein to travel the length and breadth of it.

"And not yet tomb" is something he longs/waits for.

So I wasn't sure if I needed a comma here or not. I guess I did.  

As far as the second stanza goes I really havn't liked it from the beginning, as I've already said.
Sometimes I get in a hurry, when the rest of the train(of thought) is beating me in the back of the head saying "c'mon, let's go!!"

As far as the last part, if "you" had no home, or maybe(more to the point) if you were homeless. And it came time to sleep, or rest, where would home be for you? Anywhere?

Sadly to say. I've seen homeless people pass by a bunch of dumpsters and garbage cans, and then just stop at one and look in. Why? What made them stop there?
It's a poor comparison, but it's kind of the same with, as you call him "spaceguy". Does he stop looking for love(heart)?? or Spiritual guidence(soul)??  That's the best I can do.

Again thanks for taking the time to help me, I very much appreciate yours and everyone elses comments.

Cap.


 Cap. Carg.

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
11 posted 2000-02-08 02:00 AM


hey cap!

i see what you're saying about the 'home' thing:

if "you" had no home, or maybe (more to the point) if you were homeless[, a]nd it came time to sleep, or rest, where would home be for you? Anywhere?

i think if i were "homeless," home would be NOWHERE.  but point taken, i see what you mean, lol.

thanks,

jenni

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
12 posted 2000-02-09 04:18 PM


Excellent poem!
captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.
13 posted 2000-02-09 06:59 PM


Trevor, have I done something wrong here?

You usually give good commentary, or does this have something to do with the coffee posts? I want you to know that I support your giving critique to my work.  
That's why I'm here, please don't stop giving your excellent advice, or change who you are.

Cap.

Do you fear the force of the wind,
The slash of the rain?
Go face them and fight them,
Be savage again.
Go hungry and cold like the wolf,
      Go wade like the crane:
The palms of your hands will thicken,
The skin of your cheek will tan,
You'll grow ragged and weary and swarthy,
      But you'll walk like a man!

                       Hamlin Garland
                  "Do you fear the Wind?"



 Cap. Carg.

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
14 posted 2000-02-09 08:55 PM


Hey Captain,

"Trevor, have I done something wrong here?"

I dunno have you?

"You usually give good commentary, or does this have something to do with the coffee posts?"

I dunno does it? Actually I apoligize for the sound bite of a critique I posted, if ya read almost all the poems you'll see they all got the same treatment. Just trying to illustrate a point from the "Coffee" thread. Now I noticed you posted a response to a poem of mine and wrote "Critque?? Aside from some elementary things, none.". Now as falttered as I was that you and others told me you liked it, it doesn't really do me much good if you put "aside from some elementary things" down without telling me what the elementary things were. First off I don't know if you are reffering to good elementary things or bad elementary things, secondly if it is something that, in your opinion might need fixing then please let me know. It's difficult to try and please readers when readers give vague responses. Since poetry is usually smaller in length than prose, I find errors or flaws really stand out more and that's why I personally find that every little part of a poem should be put under scrutiny, every little "t" should be crossed. Now I'm not saying you have to put every little thing under a microscope, that's the mostly the writer's job, but if you do happen to notice a possible flaw, maybe you could do me the tremendous favour of pointing it out. Also, after reading this I was worried you might have thought my brief little comment was me trying to say "Why haven't you critiqued my poem yet?" and I just want to let ya know that my comment wasn't to try and bully you to do so. In fact never feel obligated to critique my work, but if you do please either tell me with some depth why or why didn't you like it. I like to comment because I enjoy reading different poetry and I enjoy learning from it. I know it's very difficult to respond with an indepth critique to every poem written by the people who have critiqued your work, though it's always a nice gesture, but it isn't difficult if you look at it in a long term view. Sure I may have critiqued a poem of "X's" today but they don't have to critique mine today as well, they can spend that time helping someone else with an indepth critique, but maybe down the road they could offer such help to me. It's not really about whose work your critiquing because if we all act responsibly everyone will get around to eventually critiquing everyone else's poetry. Now I'm not trying to tell you how to critique, I'm only suggesting and it's up to you to decide as to whether or not you agree with me. If you want to know more of my thoughts....a lot more ....read the "Coffee" thread, it might clarify my comments a little more.

"That's why I'm here, please don't stop giving your excellent advice, or change who you are."

I don't know if my advice is always excellent but fortunately or unfortunately I don't plan on stopping just yet. And as for changing who I am.....I'd like to think I'm still growing as a person so I can't make any promises on that either

Alright, I'm outta here, I'll talk to ya later Capt., take care,
Shrevor


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