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roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us

0 posted 2000-01-29 02:34 PM


she stands, hands on her hips
with out-dated fuschia dry on her lips
and makes the lonely declaration
"i'm here"
she always makes quite an entrance
in the diner, daring takes a chance
on to the table screaming aloud
"i'm here"
all the while he's silently observing
marian, to whom he's undeserving
she throws herself at his mercy
"i'm here!"
and when he's done, they'll be apart-
who roiled the vapid river of her heart.
she waits "maybe he doesn't know
i'm here"
why does she then place
trust in one unworthy of her grace?
because if she needed a friend
i'm here.

 "What is conversatism except adherence to the old and tired against the new and untried?"

Abraham Lincoln


roxane

© Copyright 2000 roxane - All Rights Reserved
haze
Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528
Bethlehem, PA USA
1 posted 2000-01-29 02:58 PM


roxanne...

this is my first read on this and it is incredible. The image of the diner blows through without describing it...I can see her there. excellent writing. The only thing that lost me were the last two lines.
"because if she needed a friend
i'm here."

is "she" marian or did you mean he? is she there for herself hoping to be different?

Other than that...This is sheer poetic excellence! Kudos Bard-ess...Extreme Kudos!

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
2 posted 2000-01-30 04:34 AM


Rox

I didn't see the first version I don't think, and I've never been in a diner in my life (we don't have diners here or at least we didn't till about a year ago .. now that aspect of the US has arrived as well!!)..

I agree with Haze about this it's excellent .. I particularly like the repetition which seems to add to the ever building sense of desperation as the "she" vainly seeks attention. For some reason the rhyme scheme also seemed to heighten this effect as well, though I'm not sure why exactly.

Most of all though the poem had your usual edge of obscurity.  Not sufficiently difficult to make the reader give up any hope of try to understand but just enough to make it tantilisingly challenging.  This must be the case because even Haze isn't sure of who is who  .

This time though I read and read till I think I understand what's going on .. but I'm still not absolutely sure ..lol:

"She" is Marian is she not?

Marian enters the diner where "he" (the boy she wants) callously plays with her and her emotions, pretending disinterest.  He'll toy with her, play with her heart and then cast her aside ...

"who roiled the vapid river of her heart" .. Good heavens Rox that was a wonderful wonderful line ...

and all the time the speaker (YOU) sits there in the diner watching the drama and wondering why Marian insists on hurting herself in this way (as she has also maybe hurt herself physically in the past). You are so sad that she throws herself at this unworthy boy when she could find solace in your friendship again.  You are sad for her and also sad for you ...

Am I right ...?

One of your very best Rox

Philip

  

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
3 posted 2000-01-31 12:38 PM


rox--

this is surely "marian's lace" from an entirely different approach?  very well done.  the phrase "the lonely declaration / 'i'm here' " is very touching.  i'm not sure "vapid" is the best word for marian's heart, though?  do you really mean her 'heart' is dull, flat, uninteresting, shallow?  perhaps you do, but it seems like there is more going on in marian's heart than that.  anyway, i liked this approach, but couldn't really say whether i like this or the previous version better.  nice work.

jenni

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
4 posted 2000-01-31 10:07 AM


Roxane,

Very vivid image indeed. Interesting, I didn't even see the rhyming at the first reading. Then I read the other comments, including Philip's reference to the rhyme. Then I reread the poem and again missed the rhyme. I finally had to go back and just look at the end words to finally see it. Wow, just slow, I guess.

Guess I rambled a little there   but, as I said a very vivid image. I could just see the diner with lots of chrome, little round barstools and a few 4 seat booths, with Rosie behind the counter. Very strong indeed but, like some of the others, I become a little confused at the last two lines. That doesn't detract, however, for my enjoyment of the poem.

Thanks for the read.


 Pete

What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity --
sufficiently sublime in their simplicity --
for the mere enunciation of my theme?
Edgar Allan Poe



Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
5 posted 2000-01-31 01:50 PM


It just shows how differently the same words can portray the same girl to different people.  I read Marians Lace as well and I think another one about Marian and now this, and I came to exactly the opposite view of Jenni about the use of the word "vapid".

Even before reading that line i saw Marian as a somewhat shallow, self centred individual maybe obsessed with herself and her own problems and yes a heart which was "lacking liveliness, tang, briskness or force".  Maybe her MIND is in turmoil but her "heart" is unmoved and cold.

I also thought the river metaphor was quite good although at first sight it may be a little difficult to see a heart as a moving force.  Get away from the anatomy though and think of "heart" as a flow of emotion and then you have Marian's romantic emotion as a kind of flat oily sluggish river flowing on and on unruffled by the trivialities of other peoples feelings!

Then into her life comes this boy and you can just see the water boiling for a while, the turbulence .. "roiled" .. what a word ! excellent ...

For me this line was appropriate and memorable ..

Philip

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
6 posted 2000-01-31 02:14 PM


Roxanne:

As usual, your "visuals" take the day with this one.  I will certainly be digging up the other Marian poems and giving them a read.

"she stands, hands on her hips
with out-dated fuschia dry on her lips
and makes the lonely declaration
'i'm here'"

This is a fantastic opener.  There isn't a wasted word here.

"all the while he's silently observing
marian, to whom he's undeserving"

This was an interesting sentence.  At first reading I thought it was "Marian" who was undeserving.  Quite a difference a little word like "to" makes.

"and when he's done, they'll be apart-
who roiled the vapid river of her heart.
she waits 'maybe he doesn't know
i'm here'"

There is so much going on between the lines of this stanza that I had to stop and think about this.  I, like Philip, think "vapid" is a good word here, especially when you think of it's relationship to "roiled" (stirred up/dredged) and "river".  Both words compliment the "river" metaphor.

"why does she then place
trust in one unworthy of her grace?
because if she needed a friend
i'm here"

This stanza seemed a little anti-climactic and it left me a bit confused about the identity of the "i" in "i'm here".  I guess Haze and I think alike here (that is a scary thought).  

Thanks for the read.



 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." - Martin Luther


jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
7 posted 2000-01-31 02:21 PM


"Even before reading that line i saw Marian as a somewhat shallow, self centred individual maybe obsessed with herself and her own problems and yes a heart which was "lacking liveliness, tang, briskness or force".  Maybe her MIND is in turmoil but her "heart" is unmoved and cold."

interesting point, philip, i guess i agree.  i was seeing "heart" as almost synonymous with character or personality, and i just didn't think a vapid person would "make quite an entrance", "take[ ] a chance," stand with her hands on her hips and make the vulnerable declaration "i am here". but, yes, her heart does seem cold and unmoving when looked at vis-a-vis the speaker of the piece.  

nice read on that, philip, thanks for the different perspective.  

jenni

[This message has been edited by jenni (edited 01-31-2000).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia
8 posted 2000-01-31 02:24 PM


rox -- this rocks!!!
roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
9 posted 2000-02-01 03:31 PM


thanks for the replies.  there was something that i was hoping that philip would notice, but he didn't.  it is sort of a sequel to "marian's lace", and it deals with her personality, her charisma, her "grace".  also, it has the opposite rhyme structure as "marian's lace".  (didn't think you'd notice that though philip)
i agree with the anti-climatic part, only becuase i, in a way, intended it.  the climax is closer to the beginning, with the declaration, the jumping on the table, all things to get his attention.  and then i see the affects of it on her, how he doesn't want anything to do with her, and that is a sort of quieter, "i'm here".  i know it doesn't work as well as it would were it rearranged.
the "vapid" heart of marian is indeed boring, still, shallow.  i hoped to bring to mind the image of someone's heart that was stilled over time, and quietly made stoic, but yet still flowing, as she is still living.  but he "roiled" this river, and she now craves that attention.
but thank you all for those too kind comments.  

captaincargo
Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109
Corning, N.Y. U.S.A.
10 posted 2000-02-06 11:21 AM


Roxane, Hi! I read this piece over and over, until I thought I had it. Then read the replies and realized I didn't have it at all.
Sometimes I'm so very thankful for the other (real) poets on this forum. Their comments made me see other aspects that I had entirely missed. My lit teacher always said I was one dimensional.  

Anyway, "after" I understood it. I wanted you walk into the diner and give Marian, or you too for that matter, a big hug!
Thanks.

Cap.


"Down around the quay they lie, the ships that sail to sea,
On shore the brown-cheeked sailormen they pass and jest with me,
But soon their ships will sail away with winds that never tire,
And there's one that will be sailing to the Port o' Heart's desire. ....."

                     John S. McGroarty



 Cap. Carg.

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