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jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash

0 posted 1999-12-06 07:06 AM


When absence chills my wanting heart with fear,
And bladed longing twists within my breast,
I close my eyes and my true love is near.
Remembrance grants a precious moment's rest:
Sweet passion's cadence quickened in my chest,
Upon your neck I brushed the lightest kiss.
Your mouth sought mine and, with warm bodies pressed,
Surrendered to the lure of moisture's bliss.
Smooth skin, soft lips, sweet sounds I reminisce.
Your touch, your kiss, your voice I shan't forget,
But, drowned in Lethe, your scent I dearly miss,
Supplanted by the odor of regret.
I close my eyes, my dearest love to see.
Be quick, my love.  Be quick to come to me.


 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther


© Copyright 1999 Jim Bouder - All Rights Reserved
Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
1 posted 1999-12-06 08:12 AM


A beautiful love sonnet. Flows smoothly. Flawless. I can appreciate how hard these things are to write--and especially to make them sound natural, which your does.  I've written only two sonnets in my life--one worth mentioning.  Good use of the word "Lethe."  Being uncultured, I had to look it up. This place is an education.
roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
2 posted 1999-12-06 09:44 AM


beautiful.  i love the choice of words in this poem.  so sweet, and then so very sad and desperate.  good job!  
jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
3 posted 1999-12-08 07:58 AM


Thanks Kenneth and Roxanne for your kind comments.  You are right, Kenneth, that these are very challenging to write (at least they are for me).  As far as "uncultured" goes, I learned the word in 10th grade after reading the Piers Anthony novel "Being a Green Mother".  I am not sure how "cultured" that makes me.    Thanks again.

 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther



Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
4 posted 1999-12-11 12:05 PM


Quite a beautiful poem Jbouder,

The story line is a bit cliched as is some of the phrases but the residue of poems past is easy to forget in this case. I'll break down the poem but I'm going to be blunt, it's getting late, so please forgive.

"When absence chills my wanting heart with fear,
And bladed longing twists within my breast,"

Excellent opening lines.

"I close my eyes and my true love is near."

Came off cliched.

"Remembrance grants a precious moment's rest:
Sweet passion's cadence quickened in my chest,"

I rather liked these two lines especially the "passion's cadence".

"Upon your neck I brushed the lightest kiss.
Your mouth sought mine and, with warm bodies pressed,"

Cliched again....but

"Surrendered to the lure of moisture's bliss.
Smooth skin, soft lips, sweet sounds I reminisce."

....they flowed so nicely with these two lines.

"Your touch, your kiss, your voice I shan't forget,"

You already mentioned kissing and that you were touching her.

"But, drowned in Lethe, your scent I dearly miss,"
Liked the line but what is "Lethe"?

"Supplanted by the odor of regret."

Really liked this line and how it relates to the previous one. Good solid connection.

"I close my eyes, my dearest love to see.
Be quick, my love.  Be quick to come to me."

This line I found to be really cliched and you used the word "love" three times in fourteen lines. Also the last sentence on the last line seems to be out of whack with the meter...or I'm reading it wrong....or it flows awkwardly.

It's hard to do a poem of this nature without coming off a little cliched so I found it easy to get past the cliches when the poem is read as a whole, however when broken down line by line they stand out. All in all I enjoyed the read and thought it was a beautiful poem. But try not to ring so much like the past of poetry but rather strive to be its future. Anyways, you asked for my opinion so there it is   Take care and thanks for the read,
Trevor

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

5 posted 1999-12-11 03:13 AM


Jim, I think this is beautiful! I don't know the format for a Spenserian at all, so it is not for me to comment structurally - but the words are lovely.

One thing - your flow is near perfect, but in the third line I think the 'and my true love is near' jars a little. Perhaps if you omitted the 'and' in favor of 'I close my eyes, my true love is __ near' - including a word with two syllables, probably one with the suffix 'ly', the flow would be smoother.

Just a suggestion.

K

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
6 posted 1999-12-11 08:54 AM


I don't think that your poem comes off at all cliche.  The term "cliche" for me means "so commonly used as to be trite."  I find your poem expressive and original.  New songs come out all the time that make use of old styles of music.  The same can be said of poetry.  Yours is a fresh poem in an old classic form.  Every poem doesn't have to be a ground-breaking innovation.  If everything is an innovation, then nothing is an innovation.  
Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
7 posted 1999-12-11 11:13 AM


Jim (sorry its taken so long)

"The form of the sonnet invented by Spenser, the "Spenserian" sonnet, interlocks the rhymes ababbcbccdcdee, and is a good compromise between the harmonious but difficult four-rhymed Italian and the more dissipated music of the easier seven-rhymed English", so reads the bit on Spenserian sonnets in the book I just bought which is about as much as I know about Spenserian sonnets.  So please bear Manuel's immortal words to Basil Fawlty in mind ("I know nothing Mr F") when you read the following .....

Actually as I am so late coming in on this, the others seem to have covered almost all the ground.  I would agree with Kenneth that the flow and meter seem nearly flawless ... iambic pentameter if I recall Jenni's lessons correctly (lol) .. (where are u btw Jenni?).  With the greatest of respect to Severn ~deep bow~ I can't see much wrong with the third line it seems to me to read perfectly as:

"i CLOSE my EYES and MY true LOVE is NEAR."

As usual I am probably missing something though.  I wasn't sure whether you were advocating the introduction of an eleven syllable line Severn?

Again, with respect to Kenneth, I do see exactly what Trevor is getting at.  I think the key part of his critique is near the end when he says "I found it easy to get past the cliches when I read the poem as a whole".  I found exactly the same.  Because, I think, of the perfect meter and flow it was an easy and pleasant read.  I also agree with Trevor on nearly all his individual points and I particularly commend the opening lines, as he did.

Whether it matters that this poem "rings of the past" to my mind depends on what you set out to achieve.  If this is one of your first sonnets then I would/will (lol - I haven't written one yet) certainly play safe and try to emulated the older safer styles before breaking new ground - plenty of time to strive for the future when the basics are right  .  

A few small points (and believe me they are small):

The word "rest" (end of fourth line) gave me pause for thought.  "Rest" from what? Perhaps rest from the pain of wanting and missing?  However what is replacing the pain of missing is anything but "rest" it is an active vibrant loving albeit in the mind. Something that meant "precious moments LIFE" might have been better but as always the rhyming will restrict.

Also why the colon on the end of that line?  Colons usually indicate a list or similar ... is the colon meant to indicate the start of the reminiscence?

Now then ..... and this is my biggest and cleverest point ~devilish grin~ ... the word Lethe.  I too have read Piers Anthony ("The colour (color) of her panties" kinda sticks in my mind LOL) and remember Lethe, but I still had to look it up.  Lethe with an upper-case L is the river in Hades whose waters cause drinkers to forget their past.  "Drowning in Lethe" may therefore be safely assumed to eradicate past memories?  And therefore ..... (and here is the devilishly cunning logic .. heh, I love this sort of stuff)... and therefore if you drown in Lethe how could you be missing her scent - you would presumably have forgotten the scent and indeed her!!  Actually it was a good line Jim .. tell me my logic is flawed or irrelevant and you can keep it ..  .

I actually liked the ending .. too many sonnets I have read seem to end with a rather annoying sort of moral or, even more annoying, a summary of what has already been summarised in the poem.   I thought yours ended in a natural and flowing way although if it was possible to eradicate one "love" I might do so.  Also I liked the repetition of "I close my eyes" echoing the opening.

The only other matter I might raise is that of the "golden section" - I was reminded of this by my book lol.  The "natural" ratio 8:5, in the case of a sonnet a "turn" or change of approach after about line 8.  As your sonnet was essentially of the "old school" I thought it might have been nice to try and introduce such a turn.  Maybe you did! And I'm just too dim to spot it?

A beautiful read Jim thanks.

Philip


Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

8 posted 1999-12-11 05:11 PM


With a curtsy back to Poertree (because I AM of the feminine side you know, Jim!!!  

Took a close close look - yep, I can read it as you say! I think in order to read it that way I found the rhythm had to be forced just a little, it is hard to settle into it the first time round. Perhaps though, that is the nature of the Spenserian - which I don't know much about - though your definition definitely helped! Thanks for the insight, P.

(Sorry J - didn't mean to talk over you head as it were.)

jbouder
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since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
9 posted 1999-12-12 10:16 AM


Man!  Thanks, everyone, for your replies.  Where to start?  Here goes.

TREVOR:

All of your points are valid points.  I do, however, find it difficult to write anything about love that is actually novel.  A question about "cliche":  Does an idea or phrase that may, in one form or another, be commonly used necessarily amount to cliche if its presentation is not common or ordinary?  Just wondering?

As Philip (a/k/a Poertree) correctly pointed out, "Lethe" refers to the underworldly river in Greek mythology that, when its waters are imbibed, causes the drinker to forget his or her past.  With this line I wanted to stress the finality of the lost memory of "her" scent.

One point, however, I want to make about "stiving to be the future of poetry".  Sonnets were the first poems I seriously read (starting a mere three months ago).  What amazed me about them were two things: First, the beauty of the language in actually expressing the feeling of, and feelings that often accompany, love.  Second, that such a rigid structure could be followed without detriment to the impact of the language.  These are two characteristics that, in my opinion, should remain in the boat bound for the future of poetry.  If we leave them behind, what have we lost?  When I actually succeeded in writing one (and those of your who have read some of what I have mistakenly called "sonnets" in the past can appreciate this), though it was difficult, it was extremely fulfilling (Thank you Ruth and Brad and Nan and everyone else for finally setting me strait).  

SEVERN:

Thanks for the kind words.  I would gloat about the meter thing but, had Ruth not set me strait two months ago, I wouldn't know an iamb from a trochee.   I couldn't "read" the meter then but, once I learned, I was surprised by how easy it turned out to be.

KENNETH:

Thanks for sticking up for me against that bully Trevor.     I think I agree with you on your point about cliche.  Thanks for articulating it for me.

PHILIP:

I only asked for you to take a look, not to perform an autopsy!  

"Also why the colon on the end of that line?  Colons usually indicate a list or similar ... is the colon meant to indicate the start of the reminiscence?"

I added a colon as an afterthought.  There is a shift in tense beginning with the fifth line of the sonnet (present to past).  The colon was added to give an additional hint to this.  So to answer your question, yes, the colon is meant to indicate the start of the reminiscence.

"Now then ..... and this is my biggest and cleverest point ~devilish grin~ ... the word Lethe.  I too have read Piers Anthony ('The colour (color) of her panties' kinda sticks in my mind LOL) and remember Lethe, but I still had to look it up.  Lethe with an upper-case L is the river in Hades whose waters cause drinkers to forget their past.  "Drowning in Lethe" may therefore be safely assumed to eradicate past memories?  And therefore ..... (and here is the devilishly cunning logic .. heh, I love this sort of stuff)... and therefore if you drown in Lethe how could you be missing her scent-you would presumably have forgotten the scent and indeed her!!  Actually it was a good line Jim .. tell me my logic is flawed or irrelevant and you can keep it ... "

You are devilish, Philip.  Actually "the color of her panties" is referring to a character in one of Piers Anthony's "Xanth" novels, Irene, I believe (who was quite fiesty, I might add).  The River Lethe was in an "Incarnation of Immortality" volumn. Now ... to the logic of your point.  Your logic breaks down as soon as you understand what the dependent clause in my "Lethe" line is modifying.  I am not saying that the narrator drowned in the River Lethe but that his love's scent was drowned in the River of Forgetfulness and was, therefore, lost to him forever.  Be more careful next time, Philip. You're not playing with an amateur at logic ... and thanks for the permission to keep the line.  

Your point on the "shift" after line 8 is well taken.  I intended the narrator's passing from his "reminiscence" to the present again to be that turn.  Perhaps it was not pronounced enough or, perhaps, I do not fully understand what the "turn" ought to be.

EVERYONE:

Thanks again for your interest and detailed comments.  < !signature-->

 Jim

"If I rest, I rust."  - Martin Luther



[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 12-12-1999).]

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
10 posted 1999-12-12 02:15 PM


Jbouder, must everything be a debate with you  ...and if you call me a bully again I'll pop ya one in the nose :

"Does an idea or phrase that may, in one form or another, be commonly used necessarily amount to cliche if its presentation is not common or ordinary?"

No that does not make it a cliche, almost everything has been written about before so it's hard to come off as completely original. Love in poetry can be called a cliche (and so can a sonnet about love) but a love poem is not necessarily cliched. Once again I'll say I found some of the lines as a singular to be cliched but the poem as a whole not cliched, though the story line was cliched as well.

"One point, however, I want to make about "stiving to be the future of poetry".  Sonnets were the first poems I seriously read (starting a mere three months ago).  What amazed me about them were two things: First, the beauty of the language in actually expressing the feeling of, and feelings that often accompany, love.  Second, that such a rigid structure could be followed without detriment to the impact of the language.  These are two characteristics that, in my opinion, should remain in the boat bound for the future of poetry.  If we leave them behind, what have we lost?"

I should have been more specific, I was referring to content and not form. I don't think it's necessary to throw away poetic structures to achieve a "freshness" in poetry. I'm not trying to belittle your accomplishment in writing a beautiful sonnet but your words, and not form, ring as if you are trying to emulate the poets of the past. I got this impression by the first three lines and the last four lines. Anyways I hope I clarified what I was trying to say and how many other bullies do you know that would take the time to do that   Take care,
Trevor

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
11 posted 1999-12-12 02:23 PM


Jim, ~smile~

You don't honestly expect me to give up after that feeble explanation do you ...   .

Two points:

1  You've got the first person "I" bracketing the phrase "drowned in Lethe" .. while I realise that drowning out scents is a frequently used descriptive term, it is compelling in this context to believe that it is the "I" that is drowning simply because of that juxtaposition.

2  You could have chosen any river, or just said "drowned" or just "water", but you chose  the river Lethe.  The whole point of the Lethe surely is that if a person drinks from it they lose their memory.  While I agree it is perfectly possible presumably for the waters of the Lethe to drown a scent just as effectively as any other river, a reader, knowing the secret of the Lethe, would naturally cast around for a subject upon which the peculiar magic of the Lethe could act upon.  Clearly "scent" has no memory and therfore cannot lose it, the most obvious candidate is the "I" ie the speaker.

To summarise; while I agree that in cold logic you could possibly argue that it is the scent that drowns, I would contend that an informed reader will be irresistibly drawn to the conclusion that it is in fact the speaker who is thus affected.

Yours, in friendly debate, Philip  

PS I reckon the future of that line is still in the balance  .< !signature-->

 

[This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 12-12-1999).]

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
12 posted 1999-12-13 08:08 AM


TREVOR:

"Jbouder, must everything be a debate with you[?]"

Yes.

"...and if you call me a bully again I'll pop ya one in the nose."

If ya wanna do that you're going to have to come down to Pennsylvania because you will not catch me dead in Canada in December.    

"I'm not trying to belittle your accomplishment in writing a beautiful sonnet but your words, and not form, ring as if you are trying to emulate the poets of the past. I got this impression by the first three lines and the last four lines."

You are right about the emulation of past poets.  The only poets I have read at great length have been Shakespeare and Poe (and Poe only in the past week) and, of the two, Shakespeare has written more sonnets.  There is no doubt that the words of my sonnets are influenced greatly by my reading of Shakespeare.  I suspect (and those of you who have been writing for longer than the three months I have can verify this) that in time my own style and influence will become more pronounced in my writing.

Thanks for the clarification, Trevor.  Of the bullies you truly are most refined.  And Trevor, you can call me Jim.

POERTREE:

Okay.  You've got me with that one.  I was driving all night the night before and ... (you fill in the excuse).  How about this one.  The mythical River Lethe is not the focus of that phrase but, rather, is its quality of inducing forgetfulness and, more particularly, the permanence of that forgetfulness.  The narrator's memory of his love's scent is as lost to him as it would be had he imbibed water from the mythical river.  He obviously had not drunk from its banks but, as far as the memory of her scent is concerned, he may as well have.

I hope this is a better explanation than the previous.  That being said, I bow, humbled, before Philip who I have underestimated and ask, sincerely, for your forgiveness.  So, can I keep the line now?    

< !signature-->

 Jim

"If I rest, I rust."  - Martin Luther





[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 12-13-1999).]

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
13 posted 1999-12-13 12:21 PM


Jim,

You beat me to it .. I spent a sleepless night chastising myself for being a pedantic b.....  Determined today to post a contrite apology  .

I see exactly what you are driving at .. the line of course must remain "as drafted"  , oh and btw as I said above I see nothing wrong with starting out with a little emulation (lol) I really enjoyed the "old style" of your sonnet.  I've been reading a lot of Dylan Thomas recently so brace yourself for my next post .....

Thanks for a lively exchange

Philip

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
14 posted 1999-12-13 02:56 PM


Well, let me start by saying I truly love the sonnet form. Now, be it debate or critique, there were many good comments before mine so I don't think I can really add anything new. I do want to side with those who were not bothered by what some thought to be cliched. The sonnet is an old form and certainly all of it has been said before but we still write them and strive for a little difference each time. I think you have done so very well.

My only negative comment, and it is a small one,  is the third line, as mentioned in an earlier reply. Although the meter is correct and it does flow, I find it just slightly awkard having to stress "my" to keep it iambic when the surrounding words seem more important. Like I said, it is a small one and I don't have any suggestions on how to improve it.

Well, I truly enjoyed it so keep up the good work. Thanks for the read.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
15 posted 1999-12-17 12:41 PM


I have to agree with Trevor on most of his comments.  The last two lines however seem to work pretty well in my opinion.  As for cliches, I go by pure feel.  If it works for me, then I say well done even if it's been done before.  If it doesn't work for me, I say try to do something else.  Now how do you get away from this problem? You move away from general situation, an abstract idea, and try to create a specific situation.  The more specific the imagery, the less chance of cliche because you're showing a single moment, not trying to describe a general, universal one.

On the third line:

i CLOSE my EYES and my TRUE LOVE is NEAR

and this is a fairly standard substitution in iambic verse.  I've discussed a lot of my views on this stuff in the Alley under syllable counting if you want my full opinion on this (and of course I have opinions ad infinitum -- some would say ad nauseum).  On the other hand, there are other ways to scan a poem.  One way is to see a four part differentiation in stress as opposed to the usual binary system.  It's also sometimes call 'the peaks and valleys system' because if you draw lines above the respective words, that is what you see.  In this case 'and my true love' has a 1234 stress count (1 is the least amount of stress) and builds nicely to 'love' (although I would try to avoid using that word -- you know me).

I've recently read both your recent sonnets and I have two suggestions:
1. Try to go for more surprising rhymes. Use a rhyme dictionary and see if you can find some less used rhymes (that fit with the whole poem of course).  

2. Try using more enjambment.  Most of your poetry uses 'end stop' lines and I find that a less interesting (if indeed more traditional) style then letting the poem flow as a whole and not just by the line.

That said, I've only written Shakespearean sonnets primarily because I like the punchline couplet at the end so my hat's off for attempting some of these crazy things. Unless your present interest is in showing off that you can do these things.  Hmmmm, why is it I feel a challenge brewing here.  Anybody else up for it?  How about everybody trying to do one of these things?

Just an opinion,
Brad  

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
16 posted 1999-12-17 03:12 AM


Brad,

"Hmmmm, why is it I feel a challenge brewing here.  Anybody else up for it?  How about everybody trying to do one of these things?"


I'm game....just need the rules to said such challenge...if there are rules....shall it be to the death then  

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA
17 posted 1999-12-17 06:03 PM


Okay Jim...I'm way late coming in on this one, but hey, better late than never and I'm back, so that's a good thing  
Anyway, I really enjoyed the depth of feeling in this one and hey, I like cliche (if this truly is which I don't really agree) when it comes to love. Aside form the one pointed out line that stumbles just a bit, I think this flows like water.
Wow, you've made alot of improvements from that very fisrt attempted sonnet you showed me

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
18 posted 1999-12-17 06:39 PM


Your on with the challenge Brad if I can find time from Nan's sestina workshop.

I really don't follow this meter thing in line three though .. when I read the line I automatically stress the MY with no "stumbling" at all .. what am I doing wrong or is it my English accent?

Maybe I should adjourn to the Alley ...


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
19 posted 1999-12-17 07:05 PM


Phillip,
It's a judgement call. I've read it your way and I can see how it works.  My (very small) problem with 'and MY true LOVE' is the demotion of true relative to my.  When reading this phrase naturally, I actually speed up slightly on 'and my' and slow down slightly with 'true love'.  I think this makes it slightly more romantic rather than staying with a perfectly metered poem.  

My point is simply that 'and my TRUE LOVE' is a common substitution in metered verse and doesn't particularly mess up the rhythm.

I have no problems with 'true LOVE' and can see a possibility in 'TRUE love' -- of course, this may just as much my own idiosyncracy as much as anyone else's.

Maybe, one of these days, we should try to get something like Real Audio and have Jim actually speak it to us. Jim has the final decision of course in the way he reads it.

God, I love this stuff!
Brad

Misty_Skies
Junior Member
since 1999-12-13
Posts 17

20 posted 1999-12-18 05:16 AM


Jim,

    Hello, can I call you Jim?  If not, let me know.  I loved it!  Simply, well... Devine.  It was beautiful.  I have nothing else to say on that, just that I liked it.
    
     I don't know much about poetry, but I'm trying to learn.  Like I said before, I used to only use it to spill my feelings and emotions.  Now I know that there is more to it, and want to make a go at it.

     *Smiling*  Thanks for the read...

                       Misty

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
21 posted 1999-12-18 07:44 AM


Brad

Yes I love it as well!  Specially exciting when you're learning and don't really know what's "right" and "wrong" half the time .. then you discover there maybe is NO right or wrong.

Thanks for explaining.

I followed your original point about what was acceptable variation within iambic meter and I do agree that variations can help to add interest (and in this case romance).  That was what I was trying to do in the last line of my "After the murder ... ".

I find I have a tendency where the meter is strict to to pick it up and then behave like a metronome just reading in a mechanical way.  I couldn't understand what you were getting at at all with "TRUE LOVE" and then suddenly bang! it hit me (lol). I now see why others thought the line was "bumpy" - it was your point about speeding up which helped me and of course you are right that the close association of "true" and "love" in everyday speech tends to make the mind run them together.  In my case the strict meter over-rode everything else which is why I had no problem.

Sorry Jim now I'm reading the line differently as well   .. the audio idea is great .. in fact I made a .wav file of Temporal Illusion for Roxane .. but it takes an hour to upload and download !!

Thanks again Brad

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
22 posted 1999-12-18 10:49 AM


What else can I say except that I am thrilled with this discourse.  I hope it has been as significant learning experience for some of you as it has for me.

NOT A POET:

Thanks for the kind words.  I will address the flow of the third line in a little bit.  About the sonnet form, I too love it.  I love the structure and the challenge of molding very personal (and unstructured) emotions and sensations into that structure.  It is a form that seems to be well tuned to my personality.

BRAD;

I've given considerable thought to your (very small) problem with "and MY true LOVE" and offer now my explanation of why "and MY true LOVE" works for me (and Real Audio may not even be necessary after my explanation!)  

I must have repeated the line fifty times out loud and to myself and I discovered something very interesting to me.  "and MY true LOVE"  I actually say, in my normal, everyday, South-Central Pennsylvanian accent as "and MY trueLOVE", compounding "true" and "LOVE" as one word.  That is why I couldn't see the problem with accenting "MY" over "true" because I never considered "true" as a word separated from "LOVE".

And you say YOU love this stuff!  This was the line that I started with when inspiration struck and the line around which I had built the rest of my sonnet. The meter of Line 3, to me, flows just as easily as any other Line in the remainder of the poem.  I find it very interesting that others may accent different word combinations differently depending on geography.  

Oh, yeah.  Thanks for the new word I've added to my vocabulary ... "enjambment".  Maybe I will try to incorporate enjambment and more surprising rhymes into my submission to "BRAD'S CRITICAL ANALYSIS SONNET CHALLENGE 1999-2000".

RUTH:

Thanks again.  But keep in mind that my improvements are merely a testimonial to the success of Ron's creation.  If this place didn't exist, I would likely be watching Seinfeld re-runs after work, rather than looking up "Hudibrastic verse" in my dictionary (a poetic Mr. Hyde I have become!).

PHILIP:

As to our both stressing "MY" without the slightest stumble, there is simply no other explanation than everyone else is wrong and we are right.     

MISTY:

You most certainly may call me Jim.  Nobody I know calls me "jbouder" (except for Trevor, but he's a Canadian so I kind of ignore it so his feelings won't get hurt).  

I don't know much about poetry either but I am learning (I learned volumes in this thread alone!).  But thank you for the kind comments.

EVERYONE:

Again, I want to thank you for your interest and comments.  Hope to see you all participating in Brad's challenge.



 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." - Martin Luther


warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

23 posted 1999-12-18 11:33 AM


I am but a new student of poetry (writing, Ive read it forever), and I think this sonnet read beautifully, flowed smoothly, and presented good imagery. Keep writing more like this...

warmhrt

Fairy Colours
Member
since 1999-12-02
Posts 169
Sunrise,Fl,US
24 posted 1999-12-20 11:24 PM


Very beautiful poem. I've always appreciated a good sonnet since they are a challenge to write.

--A Little Fairy--

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