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Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK

0 posted 1999-12-02 06:06 PM


Temporal Illusion

Resist the tempting lilt of time's long blast,
Awake from ether years that tick away,
No now, no then, no later and no last.

To you who sit and comfortably fast
and vainly wait for morrow's fattening day,
Resist the tempting lilt of time's long blast.

To those who suck dry marrow of the past,
Throw down the dusty bones, arise and say
No now, no then, no later and no last.

And you who glut on certainty must cast
beyond the present garnish, and then may
Resist the tempting lilt of time's long blast.

Spurn paltry centuries and stand not aghast
while little minutes seem to go astray,
No now, no then, no later and no last.

Let me but glimpse a lie so old and vast,
Then armed in understanding light I pray,
Resist the tempting lilt of time's long blast.
No now, no then, no later and no last.

© Copyright 1999 Poertree - All Rights Reserved
roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
1 posted 1999-12-02 10:10 PM


philip- you know that i like this one a lot. let me explain. the lines that are repeated are the best and the ones in the middle spark many deep questions. i can't even begin to criticize this, as i think it's very well-written.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
2 posted 1999-12-03 12:06 PM


This is great! I've already read it out loud several times and it just sings. That last line is just a killer, killer way to end a poem that is filled with wonderful moments.

No, this doesn't follow a lot of my poetic 'philosophy' but it works so well who cares.

Thank you,
Brad

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
3 posted 1999-12-03 10:01 AM


The repetition gives your poem a haunting atmosphere. In fact, I get more of a feeling from your poem than an understanding. It reminds me of the rosary with its many soothing repetition. A fine villanelle. (I cheated, I looked it up in my Turco's.)
Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
4 posted 1999-12-03 04:56 PM


Thanks Roxane.

Brad, I'm so glad you admitted to reading it out loud because the sound of it was a dominant (if not THE dominant)concern when I was writing it. I had just spent a good long time studying Thomas's "Do not go Gentle .." and listening to him read it, and while I couldn't hope to get near to his brilliance I wanted to try for something that positively begged to be read aloud - so you made my day in saying what you did ... thanks . You might also notice that my effort bears a passing resemblance to his poem in terms of structure.

Kenneth

Thanks also for your input on this.. you also have made me happy by effectively saying that you like the feel of the piece but can't understand it (lol) .. at least I think that's what you meant, forgive me if it isn't. Anyway I was just dying for someone to ask me to explain it - so I will do, but later ......

Philip

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
5 posted 1999-12-04 08:13 AM


Philip,
I felt pretty clever when I figured out that your poem was a villanelle--only to realize today that you labeled it such in the title. You are correct, I couldn't understand the poem. But that's probably true of half the poems I read. And the ones I do understand probably have a lot I've missed. I swim in the shallow waters of the obvious--as evidenced by my most masterful poem:

We took a swim
in waters blue.
It's bubbling yellow
next to you.

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA
6 posted 1999-12-04 03:06 PM


Philip,
I am proud to have even had a small hand in this brilliant work of art. I presented the challange and the information and you created a masterpiece. A very fine done villanelle if I ever did see one
Ruth

poetry_kills
Senior Member
since 1999-12-04
Posts 549
new orleans
7 posted 1999-12-04 07:33 PM


philip ~
i really like the poem... the diction and the tone reminds me of T.S. Eliot, though the format is vastly different... it's probably the repetition and the sing-songyness of the poem's verse, since The Hollow Men has a lot of the same elements and it's my favorite of Eliot's... but yeah, i'm rambling... *zips it*

sincerely,
**jerome the boy with no brain

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
8 posted 1999-12-08 05:00 PM


Kenneth, sorry about the delayed explanation, I've been busy .. anyway here it is:

The villanelle starts from the basic assumption that man's true identity is spiritual and not material and temporal.  That "God" is perfect and infinite and the "real" man as a reflection of God must be so also.  Accordingly the material world represents unreality, the spiritual world is infinite and therefore the concepts of time and ageing are a lie.

I have tried to start the poem with a general statement to the effect that however tempting it is to believe you get older and decay or that time is unstoppable and important, this is false and you must resist that fallacious belief.  I tried to avoid talk of "today's" and "tomorrows" as being too overused, and instead went for "no now" ie no present, "no then" ie no past, "no later" ie no future, and "no last" ie there is no ending - an infinity.

The next three stanzas use a feasting metaphor where the speaker exhorts man to recognise the unreality of the future, the past and the present respectively.

In the fifth stanza the speaker makes the point that the amount of time is irrelevant - whether we are talking about huge spans of time (centuries) or tiny minutes, they are both equally unreal.

Finally in the last quatrain the first person is introduced.  In the preceding part of the poem I have deliberately tried to give the speaker a kind of confident almost lecturing tone, he is telling his audience forthrightly what they should believe.   In the last stanza however, in the first person, the speaker suddenly admits that he himself is having difficultly in grasping the lie of the seemingly reality of time, however he recognises that even a small glimpse of the truth will allow him to banish that lie and claim his spiritual reality.

Does that make sense?

Philip

[This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 12-08-1999).]

Willem
Member
since 1999-11-18
Posts 139
Inverness, FL, USA
9 posted 1999-12-08 11:57 PM


Philip, I was quite perplexed by your villanelle, but found it too late to ask
you for explanation.  Well, now others have
done it, and you graciously complied, thank
you, Philip. It's a beautiful piece of music
in words, it sounds like a sonata for cello
to me. I'm not sure whether I can totally
agree with the message, which seems to stress the irrelevancy of time. I believe
that every second of my life is relevant to
the totality of my physical and spiritual
life, no matter how infinitesimally small
this life is compared to God's eternity.

Willem

Aegis
Junior Member
since 1999-12-04
Posts 28

10 posted 1999-12-09 04:12 AM


I will comment on this tomorrow.  It's too late for me to do that right now but... ... ... what a divine sound that comes with this masterpiece!  Yes, I mean it's very musical.  
Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
11 posted 1999-12-09 05:43 AM


I reread your poem after reading your explanation.  Now it seems so obvious that I feel like a mental midget with much intellectual laziness for not having seen it in the first place.  Yours is a poem that needs to be obsorbed.  Just curious: does this poem come from a philosophical or religious perspective?  Eastern or Western? It sounds Eastern, and yet there is enough in Second Peter's "With the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day" to justify the sentiment.
jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
12 posted 1999-12-10 10:49 AM


Philip:

I agree with Brad and, additionally, I am intrigued by the format.  Maybe you could hint to Nan to do a villanelle workshop (did I spell it right this time?   ) or perhaps you could conduct one yourself.  This was outstanding.


 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther



roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
13 posted 1999-12-10 03:21 PM


philip-
do i owe you one for the mother-daughter bond interest?  
i think that i am pretty priveleged to have been one of the first at these forums to read this.  even you have to admit that it's beautiful.  i also did as you suggested and read it out loud.  it reads like a solemn, yet somewhat lyrical chant.  it's really great.  
as for villanelles, i think that you are probably the expert.
anyways, i'll try to make it up to you.

Brie
New Member
since 1999-12-06
Posts 8
WA
14 posted 1999-12-11 04:27 PM


I read this out loud to my dormmate, and she agrees that it's beautiful. I tried to think of something more intellectual to say, but all I can really say is that I like it. I certainly didn't appreciate it until I tried to write a villanelle of my own LOL. That makes it even better to me; the fact that I can't do half as well.

-Brie

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
15 posted 1999-12-14 04:15 PM


I am quite embarrassed to drag this old thing up to the top again but I really couldn't let it go without thanking you all for your comments.  As some of you know I only started writing a few months ago and to have this sort of encouragement from people as talented as you lot (shut up gigglin Roxane, and get rid of that smirk Brad ... I'm serious) means a lot.  I hardly dare post another poem for fear that the only way now is down .. lol.

Willem ... in answer to your post I would say that the poem is not so much addressing the "irrelevancy" of time as the "unreality" of time.  Clearly, at a material level, there is no arguing with your position.

Kenneth ... I guess I don't want this post moved to the Philosophy forum by Brad so I'll try to confine myself to a few short comments.  If you want to continue the debate maybe you should mail me.  If it helps at all I can tell you that I was raised in the Church of England fairly strictly, and just as soon as I could think for myself (age 18yrs or thereabouts LOL) I became disillusioned by the "trappings" of mainstream religion and formally left the church. I suppose the truth is that I am searching (and probably always will be), but a study of the bible and philosophy and other religions forms part of that search.  My ideas about spirituality and "reality" are fairly radical, but increasingly I think supported by the discoveries that are now emerging from "hard physics" - I'm thinking here primarily of quantum mechanics.  Essentially I tend towards the belief that the "real" Man and indeed all "things" are essentially spiritual and accordingly perfect and infinite. If Jesus was bringing any message to us then I feel this is what he was trying to convey.  So called miracles then become the natural order of things and flow automatically from an understanding of man's real nature.  Time of course (in this context) would be equally unreal, and the supposed ravages of time, a lie.  I think you will see now where I am now coming from, and all I would say in conclusion is that it is my firm belief that all "intelligent" religion must be to some degree philisophical .. I do not believe, as John Locke propounded, that man must supplement a lack of understanding with blind faith.

Philip

PS I should have said above that special thanks go to Ruth for galvanising me into trying this in the first place and showing me what the rules are..



[This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 12-15-1999).]

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

16 posted 1999-12-14 05:54 PM


WOW, Phillip, WOW!

I am SOOOOO impressed.

Once again the Freeverse girl was stumped as to the structure of a villanelle  , but from what I have read in response to this I would say from the comments it is perfect. (or near perfect - I hesitate when labelling anything perfect! *smile*)

I'm totally intimidated to post here now!

K

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