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Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA

0 posted 1999-12-01 04:52 AM


When I sat at the feet of the master,
I didn't always agree with what he had to say
nor understand enough to disagree.
But his was a wisdom,
even in his perceived wrongness,
greater than I dare ignore.

Stately he sat and serene,
not a word wasted.
Each syllable spake paragraphs,
long after his lips were still.

Not much he said made sense to me.
Puzzled at his words, I often walked away.
But as I busied about my daily tasks,
a voice would whisper an interpretation.
Could this be his meaning?

I'd hurry back to question him more.
Had I got it right, perhaps this once?
But, alas, he'd reply in riddle
and slyly smile at my befuddlement.
Stumped, my usual state.

© Copyright 1999 Kenneth Ray Taylor - All Rights Reserved
jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
1 posted 1999-12-01 09:13 AM


Kenneth:

Is this "master" supposed to be a wise man or a cult leader? I don't know whether to admire or fear him.

"But his was a wisdom,
even in his perceived wrongness,
greater than I dare ignore."

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "even in his perceived wrongness".

Some punctuation or rewording might help your poem read a little easier. For example: "Stately he sat and serene" I think reads easier either by adding punctuation ("Stately, he sat, and serene") or, better, by reordering the words ("Stately and serene he sat").

I personally don't like using the word "got" in my writing (I wish it was never taught in elementary school). "Had I got it right" may be better worded "Did I get it right" or "Had I gotten it right".

I would suggest that you work on the wording a little to help it to read more smoothly and, perhaps most importantly (to me anyway), give me a hint in the poem as to whether this is a good master or a bad master (my first question above).

Jim



------------------
Jim

"If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther


Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
2 posted 1999-12-01 03:30 PM


Kenneth, I'm convinced I'm missing something in the title which would help to explain more about this poem, but having thought about it for a while I can't see anything obvious. Is it just a name?

I think you maybe deliberately set out to sow confusion in the mind of the reader with this poem - as a reflection of the confusion experienced by the speaker. Judging by Jim's reaction and mine as well .. you suceeded!!

Most of all I agree with Jim's last point that the thing that haunts the reader is the question of whether the speaker is "good or bad". Is he dispensing misinformation or the "truth" .. is he guiding or misguiding?

Unlike Jim though I actually think that it adds to the poem and its tension for this central question to remain unanswered - like the detail in the lines themselves this remains an enigma and I strongly suspect that this was again intentional on your part?

.... that's what I think anyway

Philip

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
3 posted 1999-12-02 04:57 AM


Jim,
Thank you so much for taking the time and energy to make such an extensive response. Your suggestions are good, and I think that I will heed them for the most part. It's so helpful to see my poem through the eyes of another person. For, though the poem is perfectly clear to me, a reader (such as yourself) is able to point out unintentional abiguity. Abiguity can be a useful tool in poetry, but if it is unintentional, then it points only to the weakness of the writing. I'm considering other changes to the poem, and I'll post it again when I've decided on these. In particular, I intend to change the phrase "even in his perceived wrongness," since it isn't actually HIS perception of wrongness but my own perception of his wrongness.

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
4 posted 1999-12-02 05:12 AM


Poertry,
Thank you for your kind response. You are absolutely correct in your analysis: the master falls into a very gray area. "Cat Rackbu" is a fictious name for an actual person. The poem speaks of a person (me) who, though skeptical of this man's teachings, still displays a pathetic "puppy dog" need for this man's approval. In the zenith of his spell over me, I trusted his judgment over my own. I followed him even in areas where I was (almost) certain he was wrong. By the time I left him, I felt he was all but the devil incarnate. Twenty-five years later I take a mellower approach. Yes, he is a cult leader. But I do not believe he is an evil man. For twenty years I've contemplated visiting his gathering as an anonymous face in the crowd, just to see (what? I don't know). My wife says that if I did, I'd be able to see that he is just a man, and that it's only I who have made him bigger than he is. I've posted another poem about his cult in this forum called "Cult's Residual Haunting."

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
5 posted 1999-12-02 11:19 AM


Kenneth:

We always prove to be our own toughest critics. I suggest you relax and enjoy writing. Don't focus so much on what you perceive as your weakness. Rather focus on what you can do to improve your writing.

I strongly suggest you sign up with Nan's Poetry Workshop. Practice makes perfect and hers is a great forum for practice. Most importantly, it will keep you writing. I would hate for you to stop writing out of discouragement.

I'm no expert, Kenneth, but I am happy to help whenever you have a question. Good luck.

------------------
Jim

"If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther


Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
6 posted 1999-12-03 09:46 AM


Jim,
Where can I find this poetry workshop? Yesterday I rewrote my poem from memory and made a few subtle changes, some of which I incorporated into the poem, along with some of the changes you suggested. Most noteworthy, "even in his perceived wrongness" became "even when I thought him wrong." I owe you for that one! Here's the poem as it now sits:

Cat Rackbu

When I sat at the feet of the master,
I didn't always agree with what he had to say
nor understand enough to disagree.
But his was a wisdom--
even when I thought him wrong--
greater than I dare ignore.

Stately he sat, and serene.
Not a word wasted.
Each syllable spoke paragraphs,
long after his lips were still.

Not much of what he said made sense to me.
Puzzled at his words, I often walked away.
But as I busied about my daily tasks,
a voice would whisper an interpretation.
Could this be his meaning?

I'd hurry back to question him further.
Had I gotten it right, perhaps this once?
But, alas, he'd reply in riddle
and slightly smile at my befuddlement.

Patient was he among teachers;
stumped, my usual state.

[I'm strongly considering leaving off the last two lines.]

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
7 posted 1999-12-03 10:21 AM


Kenneth:

Nan's workshop is right under "The Corner Pub" in the Poetry Forums under the "Workshops Category". I like your changes, by the way. Good job.

Jim

Kenneth Ray Taylor
Member
since 1999-11-11
Posts 139
Duluth, Minnesota, USA
8 posted 1999-12-04 08:04 AM


Jim,
Thank you on both counts. I'll check out Nan's workshop.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
9 posted 1999-12-12 06:17 PM


Well, I agree about dropping those last two lines but are the Romanitic echoes of this poem intentional (again, I'm reminded of Coleridge today but this time Xanadu).  I don't know if that helps your poem all that much.  I see a Zen master giving his students Koan; if that's the case, I would drop the description (or most of it) and tell us what you learning.  That's not a contradiction to my usual rant (and just about everyone else's rant for that matter)for showing versus telling for I think you should rework this poem in dialogue format.  Turn it into a dramatic poem or something like that.

Thanks,
Brad

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