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Deep down inside . . .
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Deep down inside . . . |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Deep down inside of every gook Is an American waiting to come out Left, Right, Left Left, Right, Left This is happening now Left, Right, Left Left, Right, Left This is happening now This is the future: This is the future: Our present technology forces us To contact you in this manner. Our present tech--[transmission garbled] This is happening now Deep down inside . . . |
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| © Copyright 1999 Brad - All Rights Reserved | |||
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
should i be afraid?  my favorite part of this one is the "transmission garbled". this is such an insane poem! i mean that in the best way possibly. one more thing, forgive my naivete, but what is a "gook"? am i going to feel really stupid for not knowing? also, i don't really understand the "left, right, left," this is some sort of reference to the military? i think i might get the point of this poem  anyways, it was good, as can be expected of you, so i'll have to leave it at that. |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
It's not you who should be afraid Roxane, it's us, the non-Americans among you. The Gentiles among the Jews, the Jews among the Nazis, the Albanians in Serbia etc etc except that this time we are talking serious planet wide insidious infiltration. The takeover of our minds (and later our bodies maybe) by the unstoppable amoebalike crawl of Americanisation over the entire globe. Gook - American slang for any foreigner usually however of Asian extraction. Brad - this was an effective poem with strong Orwellian* tones - very creepy. Just explain the "transmission garbled" for me could you? Anyway the piece must of succeeded because it got me, the most unrileable person you could hope to meet, mildly riled (lol). I liked and disliked it (make sense?? lol). Philip PS Roxane, its weird, but my answer to your question posted under my "Glorious Twelfth" will cover some of the same issues raised by Brad's poem. PPS * Orwellian - another Napolean - pig in AF (lol) cold trotters? [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 11-24-1999).] |
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merlynh Member
since 1999-09-26
Posts 411deer park, wa |
I wasn't really familar with the word "gook" so I looked it up. "A disparaging term for an Asian person, or a North Vietnamese soldier." Look it up for yourself. Disparaging--belittle? |
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
i am frightened though, that my country is feared. i don't know what it is like to feel like your culture is being taken away from you. i know that, however, in american 90% of what is said about us is that 1)we're murderers and 2)we have no real roots. it's basically true, but i think that the only reason that our atrocities stand out more than other countries is because they are only a couple of centuries in the past. no one here is proud of slavery (okay very few are) and none of us had anything to do with it, but we constantly apologize for it. what about our president's official apology to african americans for slavery? those people never spent one day in chains. it really disturbs me. i also disdain the feminist movement. it's gone from being about equality to being about supremacy. this only further enrages chauvinistic males who then retort with more oppresion. it's a vicious cycle. i blame this whole situation on cultural relativity. american hasn't since the age of transcendentalists taken any pride in itself or its people. it's ridiculous. brad- please know that i personally do not wish to americanize your, or any other country. i guess that is what happens when a country prospers. they try to imperialize, like britain and spain, and other countries of the past. i am so sorry to turn your poem into a place for my little rant. i'm very interested in your opinion on this though. i also have a quick question to raise: my friend commented that "the french hate us (americans)" is that the popular belief? i try to disassociate myself with racial presumptions, but i supposed that as the french and the americans hadn't had any major rifts (to my knowledge at least) that they would admore each other. here in america- everything is irony, and everyone is a target for some insensitive remark. i hate that aspect of living here. well, i hope that one of you could shed some light on this for me. |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Roxane - better get this in before things get out of control (lol) - much of what I said above was of course "tongue in cheek". Also bear in mind that my interpretation may be wrong!! Also although I don't know Brad well yet from what I have seen of his writing and comment there is no way that this is his view of the majority of the American nation as individuals. Rather it is a clever swipe at a kind of generally perceived view or something like that anyway (HELP BRAD !!) - I'm tired and I know what I want to say but can't find the words. I'll try and stay awake long enough to answer your points under my poems Roxane. Philip |
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
i'm not offended philip. i do like brad's poem, but i just really hope that there isn't a legitimate fear out there that people have of americans. if there is, let me know, and i will revolt, and start a new republic, okay? well maybe not so much, but i would like to allay your fears if i could. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, thanks for the responses. Roxane, nothing wrong with ranting now and then; I found it interesting. Phillip, Seems to me you got it right on. I guess you could call this my anti -'we are the world' poem. Americans are not the world. 'gook' is a term used for Asians in general right around the Vietnamese war. However, my guess is the term actually comes from the Korean conflict. Korea is hangook (hanguk) in Korean which I think was shortened by the GI's to just plain old 'gook' (which in Korean just means country). The first two lines are based on a line from 'Full Metal Jacket' -- just a great movie if you ask me and filled with some great one liners throughout "All I ask of you is the you obey my orders like you would the word of God". The [transmission garbled] part comes from another movie where the future sends messages through dreams to the past (I'm pretty sure it was called 'Prince of Darkness' -- I always thought the idea was very powerful. So, I thought why not send a message from the future through a poem. Cute, huh? Anyway, I couldn't sleep one night because I had these words in my head, got up, and spent two hours playing around with them to see what would happen. This is what happened. The left/right/left is intended to indicate the legions, masses that contribute to the increasing homogenization of the world. I believe diversity is a good thing and find it deeply disturbing when Korean children prefer Burger King to kimchee (just one example). To be honest, I want both Korean and American foods in my diet. Someone called this trend 'McWorld' -- I can't remember who right now. It is not intended as criticism of the American people (except that some see the rest of the world as America with a different flag --because we know what people really want kind of thinking). It's a trend that individual Americans have very little to do with. It is indeed the economic, military, and cultural dominance of the USA that causes it. Just seems to me the less diverse we are the less joy we have of discovering something new. Brad |
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
brad- what you've written brings to mind an instance from a few years ago: at my school, we had an "Ethnic Faire" in which all the students learn about cultures around the world and spend a day eating there food, and singing their traditional songs, dancing there traditional dances, etc. this happened every year. however, we were all watching this one girl perform a dance that i think was from india. the girl herself was indian, (one of the few indian girls at this school) and she was dressed in native clothing with her hair done a certain way. there were these freshmen boys who were laughing at her, or some reason. it made me so sad to think that this girl everyday endures the "american culture", and yet they would laugh at hers. maybe she hates our culture. i don't know, it bothered me. i guess it's just so entirely hypocritical. one more thing that has a rant-like quality: i once dated a guy who's mother was korean and father was from america. this guy had the nerve to call other asian people "chinks" how insensitive can you get? i dont' necessarily believe that cultures should be intergrated so much that neither culture exists, but i think that we should have respect for all people, just because they are PEOPLE. here in america, people are always talking about how in another 20 years, the predominant language here will be spanish. maybe i'm just jaded because i'm failing my spanish class, but i want to speak ENGLISH. the constitution was written in english, as were a lot of things that this country was built on. a lot of people thnk that it's so great. i don't. i wouldn't care if it were french, german, portugese, i would rather speak the language that i know and love. especially since i fancy myself a writer english ahs so many words that are just beautiful (i;m sure spanish does too) and i'd like to continue to learn them. anyways, i guess i'll quit ranting now and say "adios" |
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Willem Member
since 1999-11-18
Posts 139Inverness, FL, USA |
Wow, Brad, these follow-ups on your poem Deep Down Inside really have acquired a life of their own! I have enjoyed them almost as much as the poem itself. All I can add is a few personal experiences I had with multiculturalism, the word that came popping up in many places, particularly in Roxane's remarks. I must consider myself a prime suspect for spreading trilingualmulticulturalism. My (proven) family tree shows Dutch, Austrian, Chinese, French, and Indonesian ancestors. I speak (American) English, Dutch and Indonesian. I write poetry in English and Dutch and translate Indonesian poetry into English. But when I sing "God, bless America", I get tears in my eyes. So, what am I? Does it really matter? I'm all for "English only", for the sake of mutual understanding among all the various people in our country, as well as for its tremendous wealth of synonyms and figures of speech, although derived (cannibalized?)from so many other languages. A really rich language that allows us to convey each and every delicate shade of meaning we want to. Looking at the process of Americanization outside the U.S., I am only afraid that many of its "victims" are as vulnerable against the worst expressions of American culture as we are here in the U.S. Languagewise, wever, I believe that a one-language world would be a better place to live in. Until the end of time, the apocalypse... (IMHO) Willem |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
are we sure that the world becoming more americanized is a bad thing? anyone who paid even a little attention to the news just this past year must admit that ethnic, religious and cultural differences can often be quite destructive, to say the very least. preach tolerance and respect for differences all you want, but mightn't everyone get along a tad better if cultures across the world actually had more in common? and if people all over the world are going to have a common culture, even in the most elementary form, why wouldn’t american culture be a pretty good one to share? It may not be the best of all possible cultures, but america's had a melting-pot culture all along anyway, with enormous influences and contributions from peoples all over the world. (maybe this explains, in part, its popularity?) the truth is, elements of one culture catch on with another only where they respond to some need, or strike a chord somehow with something in the second culture. if koreans didn't like burger king, either the food or its cultural overtones, it wouldn't stay in business in korea long. when i was in prague a few years back, we came across a mcdonald's on wenceslas square, and my friends and i were very disappointed, sorry that here was this american fast food joint "ruining" the ambience of the city. but the place was absolutely packed, and not with tourists, and it occurred to me that the people of prague, or a lot of them, anyway, like having a mcdonalds in their city, just like so many americans do, and for the same reasons. and what's so terrible about that? at that moment, i realized my friends and i weren't being fair to the czechs, we were essentially thinking of prague like it was a quaint little theme park for our enjoyment, but a lot of people actually live and work there, and why shouldn't they have a place where they can get something to eat without spending a hour or more in a restaurant? And I’ll tell you something, we were in prague almost 5 days, and mcdonald’s was the only place we went to that had coffee, cream AND sugar all at the same time. believe me, i am no great lover of mcdonald's by any means, lol, and i am not a cultural imperialist. I love traveling, learning about different cultures, and speaking different languages; and i think it is shocking how little most americans know or care about the rest of the world. But i do think that the issue of the “homogenization” of the world is a complex one that can’t simply be decried as “bad”. all that being said, however... i liked your poem, brad. [This message has been edited by jenni (edited 11-28-1999).] |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
I have just about worn out my fingers trying to explain my views on creeping Americanization to Roxane and I think I ended up saying more or less exactly what Jenni said in her 200 words or so, except I took a couple of thousand .Philip |
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Tara Simms Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 1244Honea Path, SC USA |
Brad, I am offended by your term "gook" in this poem. I am half Korean, I was born there when my dad was stationed overseas. "Deep down inside of every gook Is an American waiting to come out" What the heck is that? Are you trying to insinuate that Asians have no pride in their histories? That they long to be American? My mother, a beautiful Korean woman, loved her country. I cannot believe that you, a moderator, would use a racially discriminative term in your poetry. ------------------ It matters not how strait the gate; How charged with punishments the scroll; I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. --W.E. Henley |
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femtastic Junior Member
since 1999-11-27
Posts 17Walla Walla, WA, USA |
Just because he uses a politically incorrect term is no reason to get up in arms. Ever heard of artistic expression? |
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Tara Simms Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 1244Honea Path, SC USA |
Yes, I have heard of artistic expression. But I do not approve of racial slurs. I don't see the poetic value of the term "gook". Do you? |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
geez, tara simms, relax, ok? read the poem again... brad was using the term ironically, he does not actually think koreans are "gooks". i think the use of the word here was totally appropriate, and lended alot of power to the piece. you are SUPPOSED to shake your head and think "its awful that people think and say something like that." |
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femtastic Junior Member
since 1999-11-27
Posts 17Walla Walla, WA, USA |
thanis jenni. THe use of the word is appropiate for the times of the world he(she?) is writing in. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: This is a very interesting poem. It reminds me of something an old Korean man of the Choi family told me of his people. The Koreans, he said, as a people are very impressionable. The Japanese occupation erased much of the Chinese influence on the Korean culture and now the strong Western presence in South Korea, he said, is diluting any distinctly Korean culture that remains. Am I onto something or have I committed some horror or isogesis with your work? The "gook" thing, I think can go without detracting from the statement the poem makes here, though, Brad, but that is only my opinion. The "goose-stepping" image is shocking enough, I think, without having to resort to (even if only perceived) racial slurs. Again, only my opinion. ------------------ Jim "If I rest, I rust." -Martin Luther |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
yikes! "isogesis" sounds horrible enough to me! (just teasin', jim ) |
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roxane Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505us |
i happen to think that brad is making good use of his poetic license. perhaps i am wrong, but i thought that brad was from asia to begin with. why would he deliberately offend himself (correct me if i'm wrong brad), if not to ironically, almost satirically make a point. this brings to mind swift's "a modest proposal". to summarize, he suggested that since his country was becoming over populated and there wasn't enough food that people eat babies! of course this was meant to be ironic. i see brad's poem as having the same effect. |
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Willem Member
since 1999-11-18
Posts 139Inverness, FL, USA |
Amazing, how such a voluminous and varied response a single 4-letter word can evoke in a group as small as ours! I wonder if some other four-letter words would have had the same effect, for instance, the "N" word, the "F" word, the "A" word. Probably not. They seem to have become part of what many think is (sufficiently) civilized language. Hence, they are even deemed acceptable in modern poetry, or what sometimes passes for poetry. So, Brad, don't worry too much about some of the negative remarks you read. We all tend to do a little posturing once in a while. Willem |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, I'm not quite sure how to respond. The more I've thought about the word and this poem, the more I think it should stay. The problem I see, however, is that there is no Asian 'voice' to speak; I'm making a judgement that, in a certain sense, I have no right to make. Anybody, ethnicity aside, should be able to Americanize if they so choose. The use of the word here is intended to saririze certain attitudes in America because if my understanding of the word is correct, then, American soldiers were using the word in the wrong country; akin to calling a Korean a 'chink' (I've heard it). Again, it is a quote from 'Full Metal Jacket' and I was hoping someone would recognize that because it brings in a whole onslaught of allusions to stupid generals. I certainly think it is a tricky thing to try social commentary in a poem (that's why I do it; if I wrote an essay on this problem, how many people would have read it?) but in a certain sense, most of what I write will offend someone -- in an earlier poem posted here, 'It's just happening next door' I've written about the Yonsei riots that happened in Korea about three years ago. I was there and trying to show the hypocrisy of the observer, the indifferent. The sentiment in this poem (the one posted above)has been voiced by many Koreans themselves (the Burger King comment is something I heard from a Korean). Just to set the record straight, I live in Korea and am married to a beautiful Korean woman (Mijung) which is why I stay here; she doesn't want to move to America just yet; she's an elementary school teacher and loves her job). I am not Korean; I'm an adopted mut and don't really know what I am. Personally, I find this to be very liberating because I'm not limited by any ethnic distinctions. By the way, they just opened up a Vietnamese noodle shop near my work and I'm addicted. It's a chain restaurant just as Burger King is so what can I say? I'm all for internationalization and diversification but against Americanization. America is a fine country and should have its place among many cultures but the fear is that it will be the only culture. If you don't get out and explore the world, you're not realizing the full diversity of the planet. LA kimchee just doesn't compare to the stuff here! Just an opinion, Brad Jenni, wonder if you might post something like that in the philosophy forum? The idea of a global culture and what that culture should be is an interesting one (one that I don't disagree with as much as you might think) Roxanne, Why do people act like that when confronted with something different? (and as beautiful as an Indian woman in a sari dancing -- boy, hard to beat that.) Why do we tend to belittle instead of respect the different? There's another question for the philosophy forum. Thanks to all who responded and for the support and for the denunciations. Conversation is a key factor in even trying to make this a better world. Just an opinion, Brad |
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