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JamesMichael
Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-16

Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA

0 posted 1999-11-19 05:51 PM

On the island of Oahu and in
the city of Waikiki.
I've discovered a Special place
that I enjoy immensely.
It's here that I enjoy sitting on
the edge of the warm salty sea.

Feeling those tradewinds as
they gently blow the fronds of
the majestic palm trees.
And while the rolling waves are
rhythmically splashing onto the
sandy shore.
That's when I begin to think of
someone Special...a woman that
I adore.

I believe she was always here in
Waikiki and yet I never noticed
her before.
Til one day I was casually
admiring some paintings in an
art studio in Waikiki and she
talked to me and we talked more
and more.

We talked about the regular
things like art and travel and
about friends and hopes and
dreams.
About biblical truths and the
fate of O.J. Simpson and the
failures of Monica Lewinsky.

And yet as I listened to her I felt
a stirring inside me...an
awakening...and I realized that
her conversation was enjoyable
and more desirable than much
fine gold to me.

I found her conversation
stimulating and her personality
was fascinating.
And suddenly I found that I
could not resist telling her how
fabulous she was looking.
Charla... I'll always remember
how warm and happy my heart
feels when I talk to you.

Jameslee@September27,1999

[This message has been edited by jmlee12345 (edited 05-05-2000).]

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius

since 1999-07-05

Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA

1 posted 1999-11-19 06:58 PM

The imagery you used in this one was nice...but, you knew that was coming didn't you? I find the flow to be a bit choppy as well as your breaks.
"On the island of Oahu and in
the city of Waikiki.

I've discovered a Special place
that I enjoy immensely.

It's here that I enjoy sitting on
the edge of the warm salty sea"

I'm not sure why you broke this up like this instead of posting the three lines together. I found it rather distracting.
Ruth

JamesMichael
Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-16

Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA

2 posted 1999-11-24 06:54 PM

I agree with your comments...I am willing to try different formats with this poem. I am trying to understand the concept of imagery
and as I understand it... in this poem I was trying to accurately reveal both my feelings for a special place where I relax and also for a special friend that I often think of. Thank you for reading my poem. James

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius

since 1999-07-05

Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA

3 posted 1999-11-24 07:32 PM

The imagery works well in this one...again, I think I might also combine these three stanzas:Feeling those tradewinds as
they gently blow the fronds of
the majestic palm trees.

And while the rolling waves are
rhythmically splashing onto the
sandy shore.

That's when I begin to think of
someone Special...a woman that
I adore.

roxane
Senior Member

since 1999-09-02

Posts 505
us

4 posted 1999-11-24 10:45 PM

the only thing that bothered me about this poem was the similie with gold. it's trite. a bit cliched. otherwise, it's a nice romantic poem.

jenni
Member

since 1999-09-11

Posts 478
Washington D.C.

5 posted 1999-11-25 02:53 AM

What exactly makes this poetry?
The fact that you've broken it up
into little short lines?
I know you are attempting free verse,
but there's no use of imagery here,
no really beautiful or interesting turns of phrase,
just a straightforward communication
of your feelings.
It certainly expresses
a very nice sentiment,
but where exactly is the poetry?
It looks as if you took
a nice two paragraph story
and arbitrarily broke it up into lines
of roughly equal length,
just like I just did
with my comment here.

JamesMichael
Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-16

Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA

6 posted 1999-11-26 05:37 PM

I liked all the comments...after all thats why I posted this in the critical analysis forum. I have made some corrections by combining the stanza's and I am happy with those changes. I see the light concerning the line "more desirable than much fine gold to me". I think that relationships and romantic feelings can be more desirable than gold and yet there must be better ways to express the enjoyment and the desires I experienced. There's this wonderful song in the new Celine album..the one titled "All The Way"...and it portrays Love and romance so well. The title of the song is "I Want You To Need Me".
Here are a few lines.....

I wanna be the face you see when you
close your eyes
I wanna be the touch you need every single night.
I wanna be your fantasy
And be your reality
And everything between.

Would this be considered poetry. I don't know..all I know is that it is a beautiful song that says so much about about a need for Love.

What exactly makes what I wrote poetry? Maybe its not poetry..if someone doesn't believe that it is than obviously they have not seen the poetic value. Jenni, I think you are telling me you disliked my writing if I wanted to call it a poem because it was not beautiful or interesting and yet you also liked it beause you told me it was "nice" as a story. I thought it was a poem...maybe it is just suggesting a poem. I value everyone's comments. Thanks, James

jenni
Member

since 1999-09-11

Posts 478
Washington D.C.

7 posted 1999-11-27 03:58 AM

jmlee--

what do you see
as the poetic value
of the piece?
i understand that
it is an expression of
the enjoyment and desires
that you experieced
talking with charla,
but why do you consider
this particular expression
to be poetry?
consider your piece this way:

... I believe she was always here in Waikiki and yet I never noticed her before. Til one day I was casually admiring some paintings in an art studio in Waikiki and she talked to me and we talked more and more.

We talked about the regular things like art and travel and about friends and hopes and dreams, about biblical truths and the fate of O.J. Simpson and the failures of Monica Lewinsky. And yet as I listened to her I felt a stirring inside me...an awkening...and I realized that her conversation was enjoyable and more desirable than much fine gold to me.

I found her conversation stimulating and her personality was fascinating. And suddenly I found that I could not resist telling her how fabulous she was looking.

Charla... I'll always remember how warm and happy my heart feels when I talk to you.

i think it reads
every bit as well,
and perhaps better,
as a straight prose piece,
without changing a word.
prose writing can express
feelings, thoughts, desires,
etc.,
every bit as much
as poetry,
but don't you think
there's a difference
between poetry and prose?
i guess what i'm asking,
put a slightly different way,
is: what is poetry?
i have no
really good answer myself,
so this debate
may be quite short-lived,
but surely there must be
some difference from prose
other than having it
broken up into short lines.

the piece doesn't rhyme...
that's fine, poetry doesn't have to rhyme.
the piece doesn't follow a particular meter...
that's ok, that's what free verse was invented for, lol.
i do not believe
that poetry has any "rules"
that have to be followed,
but there has to be
some difference between
poetry and prose,
or else everything
would be poetry.
i think it's perhaps
a certain concentrated
or compressed
quality to the expression
(but then,
i say to myself,
what about
milton's "paradise lost"?
hardly a "compressed expression").
it'd be interesting,
i think,
to hear your thoughts
on this, about why,
when you were writing it,
you considered your creation
Poetry,
and to hear
anyone else's thoughts
on what exactly this is
that we write.

[This message has been edited by jenni (edited 11-27-1999).]

Tara Simms
Senior Member

since 1999-08-12

Posts 1244
Honea Path, SC USA

8 posted 1999-11-28 09:40 PM

Jenni, I like the questions you brought up about what makes poetry, poetry. Is there a discussion forum we could go to dig deeper into this?

JamesMichael
Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-16

Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA

9 posted 1999-11-29 02:16 AM

Hi Jenni
When I wrote this it was for the purpose of sorting out my feelings for Charla. I did have every intention to write a poem and I thought I had succeeded. I never thought that I had written a classical poem. I realize there are good poets and bad poets, beginners and more advanced. I was only trying to fit in where I fit in...I am a beginner. Also I don't know that much about the technical or literary qualities of a poem. I am now reading about some of these qualities in the Encyclopedia Britannica. I'll have to save some of the answers to your questions as I learn a little more and can understand myself what I have written. However, I realize the greatest teacher is time and experience and there are already accomplished poets that are qualified to answer these questions..and so I ask for their assistance.
For now I'd like to see if we agree or disagree on some of the specifics you mention. Here's my explanation for "why I think the piece does rhyme...and I only mean that it corresponds with another in sound. So I'll capitalize the words that I believe rhyme and perhaps I am stretching the rules here....maybe they don't.
on the island of oahu and in the city of WAIKIKI.
i've discovered a special place that i enjoy IMMENSELY.
it's here that i enjoy sitting on the edge of the warm salty SEA.
feeling those tradewinds as they gently blow the fronds of the majestic palm TREES.
and while the rolling waves are rhythmically splashing onto the sandy SHORE.
that's when i begin to think of someone special...a woman that i ADORE.
i believe she was always here in waikiki and yet i never noticed her BEFORE.
til one day i was casually admiring some paintings in an art studio in waikiki and she talked to me and we talked more and MORE.
we talked about the regular things like art and travel and about friends and hopes and dreams.
about biblical truths and the fate of o.j. simpson and the failures of monica LEWINSKY.
and yet as i listened to her i felt a stirring inside me..an awakening..and i realized that her conversation was enjoyable and more desirable than much fine gold to ME.
i found her conversation STIMULATING and her personality was FASCINATING.
and suddenly i found that i could not resist telling her how fabulous she was LOOKING.
charla...i'll always remember how warm and happy my heart feels when i talk to you.

Once again I emphasize I don't know if I'm using my understanding of poetry or rhyme correctly..so let me know...this is a learning experience for me. And you mentioned that rhyme is not required and I have been a little confused about that as I read other poems...I find myself thinking..hey...that doesn't even rhyme. You mentioned my poem doesn't follow a particular meter and I'm still totally in the dark about that so I'll keep reading. I have read a little about free verse. Or as they called it in French... apparently where the movement began..."vers libre". I'm copying this from the Encyclopedia. In vers libre, the length of lines may vary according to the sense of the poem, the complete sentence replaces the stanza as a unit of meaning and rhyme is optional. I have read some of the prose in the Passions In Prose Forum and I do not feel like "When I Talk to You" belongs in that category. However..that is mostly based on my feelings and not just the facts. Perhaps Christopher who is the moderator for Passions in Prose could clarify in which forum my writing would fit the best. I'm really appreciate all the advice, time and attention my writing has received in this forum. James

jenni
Member

since 1999-09-11

Posts 478
Washington D.C.

10 posted 1999-11-29 07:15 AM

someone can probably find an example to prove me wrong, but the use of rhyme is so closely associated with rhythm, that i can't see a piece rhyming without it. i did notice that many of the words you point out have the same or similar sound, "adore" and "more", to take but one example. but where or what is your rhythm here? words that "correspond to another in sound" often occur naturally in regular, ordinary prose... take, for example, roxanne's comment above:

the only thing that bothered ME
about this poem was the SIMILIE
with gold.

"me" and "similie" both end in a long "e" sound, and, when her sentence is broken up this way, it kind of has a "poetic" feel to it. but no-one reading roxanne's comment would say that it's poetry (even though rox is an awesome poet).

your piece, yes, has words that end with the same or similar sound scattered throughout. perhaps if you intended to write a rhyming poem, however, you should pay attention to rhythm and meter to make it effective.

here's your first stanza, with capitalization to show the stressed or accented words or syllables:

On the ISland of OAhu and in
the CITy of WAIkiKI.
I've disCOVered a SPEcial PLACE
that I enJOY imMENsely.
It's HERE that I enJOY SITting on
the EDGE of the WARM SALTy SEA

i don't see any pattern here, and this is why i say your piece doesn't rhyme (just like the beginning of roxanne's comment doesn't rhyme). your rhymes get "lost". if you were attempting free verse here.... well, i still think the piece reads better as a prose piece.

but what do i know? (that's a rhetorical question....)

somewhere in one of the discussion forums out here, brad led an excellent discussion on rhythm and meter; you might find that helpful. i think the best thing you can do to learn about poetry is to get a good anthology, one that has poems from chaucer and shakespeare to seamus heaney and rita dove (in other words, from the middle ages to today), and pore through it over and over. read the poems out loud. watch the "rhythm, rhyme and flow" (to quote another pretty good poet) of the metered, more "formal" pieces, feel the subtle cadences of free verse; if you like a poem, ask yourself why? how did the poet do that? if you see something that doesn't look like it belongs, ask yourself what is going on? why did the poet do THAT? anyway, its much more fun than reading the encyclopedia, lol.

[This message has been edited by jenni (edited 11-29-1999).]

Poertree
Senior Member

since 1999-11-05

Posts 1359
UK

11 posted 1999-11-29 08:34 AM

You are soooooooo sweet Jenni heh heh

I (of course) agree with everything you've said here. Funnily enough I didn't see this exchange of views until today and in the interim I actually asked one of our revered moderators "what makes a poem a poem" ... she mentioned (amongst other things) that a poem has to have "flow". Flow seems pretty incapable of empirical definition but it does seem to be made up of all things you mention and a kind of feel ... I'm still not quite clear about this myself .. as you can see lol.

Philip

[This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 11-29-1999).]

JamesMichael
Member Empyrean

since 1999-11-16

Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA

12 posted 1999-12-01 06:35 PM

I have come to the realization that if experienced poets consider this piece to be prose and not poetry i need to pay closer attention to the techniques of poetry. That was my desire to write a poem and it still is. I will continue my attempt and some day success will be mine. Whether this piece be prose or poetry I was very pleased after the write. Thanks to all your comments I now see ways to improve this piece and someday it may see life as a poem. Please no more comments about this piece as your work has been done. James

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