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Starving
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Starving |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Pressed red curtains, guady like grandmother's lipstick, pulled together to separate three finger'd scotch from bottled beer and cancer from cures. Peter, such a Christian name for a round belly'd heathen, it's not our fault untamed African niggers die; we're not African. Waxed chairs, polished to hold the polished, like grandmother's crystal bowl'd plastic fruit, coddle those who cry when ice melts in their drink. [This message has been edited by Trevor (edited 11-05-1999).] |
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| © Copyright 1999 Trevor Davis - All Rights Reserved | |||
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haze Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528Bethlehem, PA USA |
I will tell you THIS IS AN EXCELLENT POEM I suggest a line break here: "like grandmother's plastic fruit; crystal bowl'd," Personal opinion... "it's not our fault untamed African niggers die; we're not African." could be changed...in a diversified society there are other words to drive the point...I found this offensive although I do understand the point. KUDOS POET OVERALL |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Haze: Thank you for your comments and I agree with you on the line break. About the "African" lines, originally I was going to have more people and places with different forms of "starving" but I thought it might end up being overdone. I think (or maybe more correctly, I hope) that an example is shown to inspire people to think of different forms of starvation (I was eventually going to end it with a Western child starved for attention) and the lax attitudes of most cultures towards each others problems. As far as it, (the "nigger" part), being offensive, it was supposed to be. The character/s that I'm trying to portray, have no quams about using such negetive words, with negetive histories, to describe cultures. They also use chinq, spick, kike, paki, honky, wetback, slanty eyed gook....etc....and I was trying to give more force to the disassociation between societies....I mean if everyone was to actually meet and spend time with one another and learn about each other's cultures, there would be less hostility and more compassion for one another....maybe even a caring global community. To be honest this is the first time I've ever used racially charged words in a poem and I must admit I was a little uneasy about it but I felt that it helped drive home the message with more "umpfff". Thanks again for your comments and I'm glad you liked the poem, take care, Trevor |
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Iloveit Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 1121NM |
ok, I would have to say even with your explanation, I do not understand this at all.....am leaving today, but will check back monday for more comments, and trevor if you get a chance, you don't have to do it right away till a few more comments come in but will you explain it a bit more for me? thanks |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
trevor-- this is a very powerful piece, well done. i think your use of "niggers" here was entirely appropriate, and lended alot of strength to your message. "polished to hold the polished" is a great line, and i really liked the image of the curtains having been "pulled together to separate" those polished people from the great unwashed, "bottled beer" people outside. wow. two little things: there's a typo in grandmother in the second line. and i'd describe "peter" as a "round BELLIED heathen", rather than a "round belly heathen," in the second verse. in your third verse, i might think about changing the third line to: like grandmother's crystal bowl'd plastic fruit, the way you have it is probably better, but in that case i'd have a comma after "fruit", not a semi-colon. the reason why i bring this up is that the image in this verse, at its essence, is "waxed chairs coddle those who cry", but, with all the modifying going on in lines 2 and 3, "coddle" in line 4 feels dangerously far away from the chairs in line 1. i like the sound of "plastic fruit, crystal bowl'd" as you have it, but i think it might imperil the clarity of the verse as a whole. am i making any sense? lol anyway, i really enjoyed this one, thanks for posting it here! [This message has been edited by jenni (edited 11-04-1999).] [This message has been edited by jenni (edited 11-04-1999).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Thanks to all who have read this poem so far and to those who read it after this comment is posted. lloveit: The poem is about the disassociation of people from people problems, the distance between societies and the segregation of people in different social classes. Also about the narrow perspectives people have on problems and how small they usaully are in comparison to many other situations. Literal starvation was just one example of the suffering such behaviour causes. The "grandmother" lines were there to help show how silly and outdated this way of thinking is. I hope this explanation helps and I thank you for taking the time to read my poem. Take care. Jenni: It's funny that you mentioned the "belly" part because I originally had it as "belly'd" but thought maybe it didn't fit right....someone suggested I change it, now you say change it back....I'm on a see saw  I really like your suggestion for the "plastic fruit" line and I think you are absolutely right about the suggested change adding more to the image/meaning of that stanza....so I guess ya did make sense Thanks for taking the time to read and also for your comments, they were very helpful. Take care, Trevor |
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jamaicabradley Junior Member
since 1999-11-04
Posts 39 |
Hello, I'm new to this sight, so I must say my skills at critiquing (?sp) others is at the least rusty, although I'm learning...I really enjoyed your poem, I thought it was very concise and it really hit me, I enjoy reading things that are direct, even if they are abstract, I usually loose patience if it doesn't have a good pace. Really enjoyed it. Not saying your poem itself was abstract. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Trev, I stand by what I wrote before. JB is right. This poem has impact. Okay, I do think you might want to go for one image but this still works for me. One direction poetry should go is away from the grand philosophical statements of love and death more toward bringing the whispers you hear people say under their breath; the secrets that we all here. I suppose that means we won't be like by many but then how many people actually read poetry anyway? The n-word is appropriate in this poem. I've heard too many people still use that word under their breath and it still retains the anger and hatred. We've talked about the Asian stereotypical problems before but it's important not simply to discuss this in a debate/rational mode but to show, show, show, that this stuff is still very much a problem. Trev, you are the only writer I've met who when someone says a nice thing about your poem, you say that someone is wrong. That someone is me, you know. When have I ever let down on one of your poems? I noticed how you didn't post the one I attacked but the one I complimented. Hmmmm, how much influence do I have on you now? Talk to you later, Brad |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Hi Trevor, this is my first reply in this forum, so you may not know me. I thought your poem was very well done. I have a slight problem with your grandmother line explanation. Being a grandmother myself, I don't get the connection with 'grandmother' and 'silly' and 'outdated'! Neither of which I am nor are any of the grandmothers that I have had the blessing of knowing in my life! Perhaps my experience is not the 'norm'? Just my personal opinion! Great writing, though! ------------------ Denise |
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Systematic Decay Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301That place with padded walls and funny people in white......... |
Trevor, I think the use of the word nigger worked very well to drivwe home the point. I understand the context you use it in. My personal opinion of a "nigger" is not a black person.......it is many things, but I understand what you menat here. The poem is very powerful, and I'm rambling....sorry ------------------ Thinking is just what a great many people think they are doing when they are merely rearranging their predjudices. |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Brad: YA, YA, YA....I know I'm an ingrate, I should be thanking you for your comments instead of trying to force you to say something negetive about the poem . I just get suspicious when people don't have anything really negetive to say about my work.....talk about paranoia, there's just no pleasing me I was also worried you might have been taking it easy on me with your critique because I was in such a glum mood lately. The reason I posted this one instead of "She Slipped" was because I didn't really like that one myself, I just wrote and posted it at the Scroll because I was in a "block" and thought a writing exercise might help. Anyways Brad thanks again for you comments and I apoligize if I seemed ungrateful, take care, Trevor dsnyder: I'm sorry if you interpreted my comments as meaning all grandmothers or all elderly people are silly and outdated. Perhaps it is my fault for not being more clear. My grandmother and quite a few elderly and older people than I, are/were outdated in their thinking and have/had some ridiculous/silly views on life. My grandmother was a woman who wore to much red lipstick, too much perfume, had a crystal bowl with plastic fruit in it and acted snotty towards people from other classes and from other races. She called herself a Christian and was indifferent to most of the suffering around the world, yet she would give foolish amounts of money to television preachers. She was the type of woman who used the words nigger, chinq, kike, etc. and thought nothing wrong of it. She thought black people were thieves and lazy and stupid, jewish people were cheap and criminal in business practises, asian people all owned chinese restaurants, homosexuals were evil and didn't deserve the same rights as everyone else and all homeless or poor or drunk or junkies were the way they were solely because of their own accord. In fact I'd say she thought everyone was evil except for middle upper to upper class white people .....she must've even thought I was evil because she told me I would burn in Hell because of my religious beliefs. I've noticed a change in the attitudes of the younger generations. They seem a lot more informed about other cultures and races, they seem a lot more tolerant, accepting and caring about different cultures and their problems. Sure there still is racism, ignorance and a lack of empathy and priority but is it as much as it was in older generations? I don't think so. The analogy "guady like grandmother's lipstick" was my way of saying that this partition between classes and cultures is tacky and old like my grandmother's lipstick....it is something that doesn't fit anymore....the part "like grandmother's crystal bowl'd plastic fruit" was part of an anology, that this hollow/shallow/plastic (call it what ya want) person/people are resting in comfort and wealth bitching about piddly things (like not having enough ice in their drinks) while somewhere in the world a person is starving and the outdated thing is that they call themselves the cultured and refined of society (hence the "polished" line). It was however, not a slander against the 50 and over generations and was not meant to be a generalization but only a reflection of the attitudes of some people, some of which who are grandparents. Anyways I hope this helped explain myself better, dunno, after reading this I think I might be a little confused You should feel blessed that you don't know people like this within your circle of friends and family, I am not so fortunate, about half of my relatives think this way, and the vast majority of them are the older generations.....You ever try to educate someone who is twice your age about the ignorance of racism and of social priority?? Hell you ever tell someone twice your age that they are wrong. Sometimes I think I'd be better off trying to convince the sea that it is actually sand ANyways thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my poem, take care,Trevor S.D. : Thanks for your comments and take care. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Thanks for your lengthy explanation. I was not upset at all, just didn't make the connection as I didn't know that you were referring to a specific type of grandmother (ie, your grandmother). But I think I must take exception (nicely, of course ) with your statement that the younger generation is more open minded, less racist, etc. I don't think there is any more or any less of these attitudes displayed by either of the generations. People are people and the only thing that really changes is the date on the calender. At least that's my opinion! And, by the way, I have a bit of a way to go before I belong to the over 50 generation! Again, thanks for your explanations and for taking the time to coddle this 'granny'  HUGS ------------------ Denise |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I don't like the 'n' word. Sorry, I know in a liberal progressive society I should get over it but it's a mean word. |
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hoot_owl_rn Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750Glen Hope, PA USA |
Trevor, I'm a bit late on this one, but better late than never. I found this to be a very strong poem, well stated and it flows nicely.As for the word of concern, I don't think this could make the impact it does without. Ruth |
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