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Critical Analysis #1
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starchild
Member
since 1999-10-22
Posts 59
manchester, england

0 posted 1999-10-22 01:02 PM


1
the eyes of the sun are close to the dawn
close to the ugly hooligans call
close to the way we saved our soul
river tides repeating
moon skies retreating
memories beating
a fresh way of life in the same old hole

2(different poem)
the fairground scene
was cool.
an old flame of a new fire at night
Great Night
sullen disguise of hidden bloom

where shall we lie tonight?
swamped by the lonley night?
far from the solid night
and sweet, sweer lullabyes
of childhood dreams

in the fairground scene
where all was well

© Copyright 1999 starchild - All Rights Reserved
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
1 posted 1999-10-23 03:55 PM


First, double check your spelling; you've made a few mistakes (we all do this but at least here you can actually change it).

I have no idea what "the eyes of the sun close to the dawn" actually means. It could mean any number of different things (a clock in the shape of a sun whose face is close to a window in the early morning light for example) but I think you might want to expand that. The first poem is an interesting idea but without any development it's hard to see what can be done here.

The second poem is also interesting (I picture a certain teenage couple after a crazy all night adventure at a fair) but it just seems there's a lot more to play with. Why the Great Night?

Good luck,
Brad

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA
2 posted 1999-10-23 09:11 PM


I am in agreement with Brad on this one, both of these pieces have potential, but both seem unfinished and undeveloped in their themes. I'd like to see you take them one at a time and develope your ideas.
starchild
Member
since 1999-10-22
Posts 59
manchester, england
3 posted 1999-10-25 06:12 AM


i thank you both for your advice and i agree with you, however i am not all that intrested in the areas of poetry where the poem becomes a code of metaphores held up by engineered rhyme and meter, it is the reason i dropped a-level english because, and i'm sure this will make you howl, i can't stand the likes of maya angelou as we had to study. my poetic intrests are the likes of morrisson,zephania, and wilde. when i write i try to inject a vivid scene with no answers, merely some suggestions so that there is no understanding or not understanding but just what a person may think or feel from it, that, i feel is the essence of poetry to me. that is also the reason i mostly leave out punctuation and have little care for spelling becuase it may make the world of difference in a positive way. thanks a lot for your encuragement thugh, it means a lot to me that someone has taken the time to consider what i have done and cast their own shadow on the sand.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
4 posted 1999-10-26 12:00 PM


Nothing wrong with disliking Maya Anglou (great voice). Nothing wrong with disliking rhyme or meter -- depends on what you want to do.

Not asking for answers or for poetry that is profound. But, by your own standards, are you sure these poems work?

Curious: by wilde, do you mean Oscar?

Academics really does seem to hurt more than it helps (check out the Philosophy forum for a more in depth, sort of, discussion on that or post something yourself.)

Like your reader emphasis. That's where my goal is as well.

Brad

starchild
Member
since 1999-10-22
Posts 59
manchester, england
5 posted 1999-10-26 07:34 AM


brad, what i am trying to say is that i don't want my poetry to be a mechanism, to have defineable parameters or to only be a yes or no. i don't want my poetry to work because i don't want it to have a specific function, i want it to be the bitter taste in the mouth that you can't get rid of or the ugly thought that you can't forget or the way you feel when you see someone you love and the way you feel when you think of something you have lost. i want it to be a friendly hand in the dark but i also want to make the reader afraid and curious i want it to do everything and nothing but most of all i want it to be

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
6 posted 1999-10-26 08:24 AM


Well, everything and nothing are just two ways of saying the same thing from any perspective. Really, I have no problems with your goals but when I say 'work' I mean what you said was not 'work'. I'm not trying to pin you or your poem down but it still seems you want to create some feeling, some reaction on any one reader (which includes yourself of course). That is what I mean by 'work'. Your tools are the words your using and discussing them don't always grind a poem to the ground; the discussion actually may open new areas that you hadn't considered yet.

Just some thoughts,
Brad

PS You have an interesting perspective. Do you have the time to check out and comment on some of the other poems?

starchild
Member
since 1999-10-22
Posts 59
manchester, england
7 posted 1999-10-26 08:40 AM


yes, i have plenty of time, i want to get no the adult fourum though, i have somethings i want to try out and mess around with, some things really benefit from being vivid and detached. i know what you are getting at butwith regard to stiring some feeling, if it stirs none then that in my opinion is most amazing and now i am going to think about that a lot.
jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
8 posted 1999-10-29 02:45 PM


starchild--

i absolutely loved your second poem here; i have read it numerous times now, and have been thinking about it alot. i like your approach to poetry. writing a "vivid scene with no answers" is exactly what you do, and its actually alot harder than i think most people realize. one has to be a pretty good writer to write about "everything and nothing" and actually come up with something. thanks for sharing this with us.

p.s.: i can't stand angelou either, lol.

handbagsatfiftypaces
Junior Member
since 1999-11-02
Posts 12

9 posted 1999-11-02 07:38 AM


at last, jenni you star. thank god someone thinks the same. it is kind of hard when all the replies to the stuff you like arwe people politely telling you it's rubbish. and you hate angelou i am so glad. please write something soon or point me in the driection of something you have written because i'm getting kind of drowsy in here, think i'm about to slip into a coma or something, eyes sealing over, vital organs ceasing to work , need some interesting writing to read or ,will,,diee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
redwriter1
Member
since 1999-07-22
Posts 480
Franklin, TN
10 posted 1999-11-05 07:43 AM


I'm not big on the 1-2-3 method of poetry writing either, however, the whole "point" of writing (in my opinion) is to have someone else "read" it, and get something out of it. It looks to me like you have something to say, but just haven't figured out what it is yet. Best regards
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
11 posted 1999-11-06 02:53 AM


What is the 1-2-3 method of writing poetry?

What's wrong with Maya Angelou? (Great voice)
Brad

DramaMama
Junior Member
since 1999-10-28
Posts 47
Louisiana
12 posted 1999-11-07 07:33 AM


If you want your poetry to mean something to your reader, it should mean something to you. If you express that meaning well, the reader will have that picture of reality, or nonreality, that you paint. If they see the scene and more, you have succeeded. If they miss the point, you have failed.
There is nothing wrong with studying what other poets write and then choosing your own style. But good poetry has certain elements in common: imagery, figurative language, and density of meaning. Don't throw out those for the sake of doing your own thing poetically.
One more thing. Spelling does count. I tend not to use punctuation in my poems, but that is choice, not sloppiness. If you want to be taken seriously as a poet, don't overlook these details.

starchild2
New Member
since 1999-11-08
Posts 2

13 posted 1999-11-08 04:58 AM


DRAMAMAMA, I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT ANYTHING, POETRY OR OTHERWISE, IS ABOUT OR HOW IT SHOULD BE BUT I KNOW THIS ONE THING.
NOBODY'S OPINION COUNTS FOR **** EXCEPT WHEN THAT PERSON IS IN CHARGE. YOU ARE NOT IN CHARGE. YOU CANNOT SAY THAT SPELLING DOES COUNT BECAUSE THEN YOU RATE YOUR OWN POETRY HIGHER THAN TRULY EXCELLENT PIECES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT SPELLING COUNTS. DON'T BE SO NAIVE AS TO ASSUME THERE IS A SET OF GROUND RULES FOR POETRY THAT YOU CAN DRAG OUT OF A TEXT BOOK THAT WILL BEAR ANY WEIGHT. IF IT WERE THAT WAY POETRY WOULD BE DEAD. IT WOULD NOT BE A PASSION, IT WOULD CEASE TO BE AN ART. INSTEAD IT WOULD BE AN EXACT SCIENCE WHICH COULD BE CREATED AND TAKEN APART BY FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS, IT WOULD BE COLD AND DEAD AND THAT IS WHY YOU NOBODY IS IN CHARGE OF POETRY AND THAT IS WHY IT MEANS SO MUCH

DramaMama
Junior Member
since 1999-10-28
Posts 47
Louisiana
14 posted 1999-11-08 06:53 AM


Perhaps you should post in the other room if you do not want an honest critique of your work. You defend your poetry by attacking the person who critiques you.
It's true that you do have a right to misspell words. Was this a conscious effort on your part? As for saying that I rate poetry on the basis of whether any words are misspelled is a stretch in logic. If this were true, then the roses-are-red-violets-are-blue variety of verse would be considered great poetry, simply by having all the words spelled correctly.
Picasso represented the human form in a truly unique way, but he did not paint that way because he was ignorant of human anatomy. He knew anatomy very well, but chose to ignore it. That was a conscious choice for him.
If your purpose in writing is solely to express yourself, and the reader be damned, then why post at all?
You are obviously very passionate about your poetry. So am I. Please don’t take offense when someone offers you his or her honest opinion. When you open up to others, you may find that what they say has some merit, and then you will be able to grow as a poet and a person.
In your rush to defend the way you see poetry, you missed my point. My point is simply this: the more control you have over your own words, the more they will accomplish what you set out to do. Otherwise, you can throw scrabble letters up into the air and wherever they land, call it poetry.


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
15 posted 1999-11-08 10:33 AM


Starchild,
You have 24 hours from this point to contact me. If you do not, I will delete you.

Brad

PS. What is your goal in poetry if you don't communicate?

jamaicabradley
Junior Member
since 1999-11-04
Posts 39

16 posted 1999-11-08 11:59 AM


Well, this is a heated debate, or could it even be referred to as such. Taking criticism (sp) is not easy and for some people it is near impossible, especially when what it being looking into is something in your heart and passions, but that is something you have to learn in yourself, the ability to accept other peoples opinions, and if not accept, that is obviously not always in your best interest, than at least accept that other people are entitled to thier opinion, you on the other hand don't have to pay any attention to them, and that is a skill. I have a hard time myself, but if I am putting my work on a page entitled critical analysis I have to ask myself if I am up for the critics and if not, I would'nt post here. Soemtimes your just not in the mood to hear another's opinion, and if I could just mention that these people are not coming across to you in a negative form, they are trying to help you through how they see your writing. This can only be a good thing in this modern day, where the floors for poetry are so rare anyway, I can only say I'm so happy to find this place. You are from England? I live there to, I'm in the U.S. right now, and just want to pick your brain on what you think of the scene over there, I find it all too traditional and constricting.I would like to hear what you think.
I like your poems, the first especially, but the second did'nt leave me much of a picture, or feeling, not that it doesn't have the potential to, in the second para the word night for me anyway was repeated too many times and in my head seemed to loose some signifigance, just me.
Anyway, I like your style.

fatwah
Junior Member
since 1999-11-04
Posts 16

17 posted 1999-11-09 07:44 AM


i am not denying you of your opinion dramamama. i am not saying anyones opinions are not valid. if you had said, 'i think your poem would have been more effective had you used correct speeling', then i would have had no objection. what i do object to is the way people see only one route down the road. you told me "spelling does count" and desparado told me "you have to make the audience think in positive terms, thats just the way it is" had i been partaking in a tset i would have appreciated what you said, but it is not a test. my point is, and the reason i get angry is, that there are no rules to poetry. there are established styles that are best done in a certain way and there are new forms or ideas that have no solid foundation. for you to tell me that spelling does count or that i have to make my audience think in a positive way then you invalidate any opinion i may have and in doing so you strike oof my poetry as meaningless and worthless. that is what i am trying to tell you.
DramaMama
Junior Member
since 1999-10-28
Posts 47
Louisiana
18 posted 1999-11-12 12:03 PM


Fatwah, just as correct spelling does not make an effective poem, lack of correctly spelled words does not make a bad poem. If you can move me with your words, then that is what counts.


fatwah
Junior Member
since 1999-11-04
Posts 16

19 posted 1999-11-12 09:44 AM


there in lies all the wisdom in the world.
i agree.

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