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Critical Analysis #1
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Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada

0 posted 1999-09-27 05:27 PM


A lesson that we need to learn
is hard and cold and fast.
Depend upon the love of you
it's the one that lasts.

Upon this love all else is built
the foundation true and firm.
And in the darkest hours of life
that love most sure, confirm.

To touch from love is easiest
when the foundation is true and strong.
No darkness can turn out that light,
no body mute your song.

Hope can spring eternal
when you strive to be your best.
Listen to those who build you up
and to hell with all the rest.

True love will someday find you
if you concentrate on living.
True love will finally find you
if you concentrate on giving.

© Copyright 1999 Marilyn - All Rights Reserved
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648

1 posted 1999-09-27 09:17 PM


Amen!

------------------
Denise

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA
2 posted 1999-09-27 09:58 PM


How true!!
Julie
Senior Member
since 1999-08-20
Posts 739
Houston, TX
3 posted 1999-09-27 10:39 PM


I LOVED THIS! Where's my print button?

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert




Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada
4 posted 1999-09-27 10:46 PM


Thankyou all. I don't know how to express my happiness . I am so new to poetry. I have written but never with the express purpose of showing my work. You make me glad I decided to show it.
DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396

5 posted 1999-09-28 05:28 AM


While not in strict meter, the flow of your poem is unmistakable. Make no mistake, I am not a purist in form. I think you should go where the Muse takes you and with this piece it took you far. There are also a few spots of rough rhyme but those are easily smoothed. All in all, a wonderful piece which I am glad you brought to us here at Passions.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvil©


Seymour Tabin
Member Empyrean
since 1999-07-07
Posts 31720
Tamarac Fla
6 posted 1999-09-28 02:00 PM


Marilyn,
I agree with dreamEvil, Good poem.

WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-22
Posts 9245
Illinois
7 posted 1999-09-28 02:10 PM


Thanks Marilyn I needed this today! Great poem!
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723
Louisiana
8 posted 1999-09-28 04:50 PM


I wouldn't mind if true love hurried up a bit... I'm getting OLD! LOL

Seriously... I enjoyed the poem, Marilyn! And welcome!

Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada
9 posted 1999-09-28 09:09 PM


DreamEvil....rough edges I know I have. I am very new to poetry. I have written for therapy and very recently decided to pursue it. I have a lot to learn and I appreciate your input.

Seymour..Thankyou. :0)

WhtDove....I am truely greatful it touched you. That was excatly my intend when writing it.

suthrn.....I can relate! I too am getting old...LOL.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
10 posted 1999-09-30 04:51 AM


WARNING: still another negative


Why do I have to be the bad guy? Okay, everybody seems to like this poem. Why? I think it's because it doesn't say anything. Love is the answer. Giving is better than receiving. Where have I heard that before? These themes are fine for a poem but you never explain why you feel this way, you never show us where this optimism comes from. The more general you make a poem, the more you lose any 'punch' to it. Images, narrative, metaphors -- show us why you believe this.

Give us your life, not abstractions. Give us ideas and pictures to show these ideas. Why not write a poem about a person who does give and give (Timon of Athens) and what happens in return. How is he paid back? The moment you move away from cliches, the moment you realize how difficult some of these ideas actually are is the moment you have a better poem.

Dreamevil is right about the meter.

You know, usually I'm not such a jerk but you mentioned that you were interested in pursuing this a little more seriously and, if I can, I'd like to help you. If you don't find this useful, just mention that and I won't comment on your poems anymore. At some point, as a friend pointed out to me recently, backslapping doesn't help you, it hurts your growth as a poet. Sometimes different and negative criticism can generate a stronger poet.

And that's what this forum is for.

Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada
11 posted 1999-09-30 09:21 PM


Brad...that is the reason I moved these here. I want to learn and grow. I want people to tell me what they think and I can take or not take and use. This poem I wrote in reply to someone else's poem. It was about a soul lost because it had no one to love it. This poem is from MY life and these are the things I have learned the hard way. It is because of my love for myself that I have made it to this side of the darkness.
this poem says plenty. It says do not rely on the love of others but the love of you to find your way. There are always many who will try and pull you father down..this poem expresses that as well. Be true to one's self..to a cliche again that you hate so much. I have found these words not a cliche in my oen life but a steadfast rule.

Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada
12 posted 1999-10-01 09:58 AM


Brad....I have to apologize to you. When I read the comment "this poem says nothing" I became extremely defensive. I do think it unfair that you say that simply because you have not been where I have. We all have different lives and experience different things. Please do not stop commenting on my poems. I need the negative to help me become a better writer.
Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
13 posted 1999-10-07 12:36 PM


Fear not Brad for I'll be the bad guy, besides everybody already thinks I'm an ass, what's being on one more hit list going to change

I agree with Brad on some of his comments. I think he is right in his second paragraph however I think you do say something, but it is vague, generalised and cliched. I also agree with Dream Evil about the meter and about not having to stick to strick meters/lengths but I don't think an abstract meter scheme was your intention so it kinda throws of the flow a bit. I don't want you to take the following comments as an attack but rather an opinion and it does not represent who you are but rather who I am. Hopefully it will inspire you even in disagreement. This is why I think it's vague:

"A lesson that we need to learn
is hard and cold and fast.
Depend upon the love of you
it's the one that lasts."
Why is a lesson of love, hard, cold and fast? Why does this one last? Why does it depend on the love of you?

"Upon this love all else is built
the foundation true and firm.
And in the darkest hours of life
that love most sure, confirm."
What does this foundation look like and what are the darkest hours of life....is it nightime? or when a father puts a cigar out on his kid's forehead or when your car breaks down? What does it confirm, does it confirm the foundation you spoke of or that you are in the darkest hours of life?

"To touch from love is easiest
when the foundation is true and strong.
No darkness can turn out that light,
no body mute your song."
Why is it easiest when the foundation is true and strong? I like the play with "no body" though I wonder if it was intentional.

"Hope can spring eternal
when you strive to be your best.
Listen to those who build you up
and to hell with all the rest."
Hope can spring eternal what?...eternal hope? and why is it eternal when you strive to be your best? The last two lines aren't the best message to pass on (read "King Lear" if you haven't) and they border on corny.

"True love will someday find you
if you concentrate on living.
True love will finally find you
if you concentrate on giving."
Where will true love someday find me? and why would it find me if I concentrate on living? Where will true love "finally" find me if it hasn't already?....and if I'm concentrating on living how can I concentrate of giving?

The cliche part comes from reading a lot of poems on the net and of my own ....we're all guilty of cliches....trick is realizing it and changing it to an original voice of your own. Every experience people share, though similar, are completely different in the unique perspective of individuals. All experiences are slightly different to every individual (for every individual is different) therefore they all warrant a unique and original poem, that's what I think at least. We all sound similar but try not to sound like something a lot of people have read many, many times. Just because themes have been done a lot of times doesn't mean they don't have to be original (and I guess vice versa but you did say you wanted to improve your writing). You could write this poem a million different ways without changing a word of it.....now think how many times you could re-write it by only changing one word...or a few words....more than I can count.

Now about your comments to Brad, I must respond, not for sake of defending a friend but because I'm compelled by your comments. I just don't want you to think you're being picked on....everything I'm saying I mean in a constructive way.

"This poem is from MY life and these are the things I have learned the hard way. It is because of my love for myself that I have made it to this side of the darkness."
Everything someone writes is from their life or manipulated from what they know of life. No one is doubting your emotions or life experience, we are only trying to motivate you to share it with us in your poetry.

"this poem says plenty. It says do not rely on the love of others but the love of you to find your way. There are always many who will try and pull you father down..this poem expresses that as well."
It probably says plenty to you but to the reader, who has not lived your life nor felt your experiences, it doesn't say much and if it does, it's probably nothing they haven't heard before.

"Be true to one's self..to a cliche again that you hate so much. I have found these words not a cliche in my own life but a steadfast rule"
I don't doubt that cliches have truths nor that one can live by some of them but do we have to read them in literature as well, why bother writing the same things over....how many times can you read the same book? The book you're reading now....would you read it a hundred times???a thousand times???? How many times would you read my response??? As an aspiring writer you should try and make quotes, not use them. I don't know if that's a cliche or an original thought that I've used so many times now

"I do think it unfair that you say that simply because you have not been where I have"
I do think his comments are fair because he HASN'T been where you have (nor you where he has roamed). How is a reader supposed to know what you are really trying to say about your life if he hasn't lived it and you're being so vague? I think it's unfair that you are expecting people to relate to your feelings through a few simple words, a general description and some forced rhymes.

"We all have different lives and experience different things"
Why do people always say that with the old you haven't been where I've been. I'm sure you are in some kind of pain and in no way am I trying to belittle it, however there are seven billion+ people on good planet earth....is your pain greater or your perseverance more triumphant.....are you the only one who started writing poetry as therapy? The answer for me is "I don't know", I've lost my pain measuring stick but I will say this, please don't think people should flonder all over your poetry just because you have emotions attached to it, now if you could find a way to express the emotions and ideas fully, well then put me first in line to read it, honestly. Now you may have read all of this as an attack, which it is not, I'm sure you are a great woman, I'm sure you are kind and gentle, with a tender heart and a loving soul but I'm tired of people letting poetry just float by. It doesn't sit well when people begin to shake hands and kiss cheeks just because some sentences were formed that rhymed (I'm not referring to your poem but a generalization of poetry critiques on the internet). It mocks the art....perhaps all art. If you really want to improve writing poetry start closing your eyes and ears to comments like "I know what you mean" and "You really reminded me of something" or "Your peom is so wonderful" and "Great poem". Anyone who is truly serious about poetry wouldn't dare tell you that....unless of course they honestly thought that and could find zero flaws(in their opinion of course), but always ask yourself...."Could this poem be better?"

Maybe I'm full of sh**, I don't know ....maybe I'm blinded by my love of poetry and its wild and untameable nature? But please ask yourself after every constuctive criticism...."can this poem be better?" and when you get to the point where your answer is "no not better, just different" then maybe you've reached the end of that thought and have the best poem you can at that moment. Then go back a few months later, read the same poem and ask yourself the same question. It's hard to be objective when writing/poetry is usually such a VERY personal thing.

Once again I hope I didn't offend you, I'm only trying to help. I also hope I didn't come off sounding as if I don't smell like the stuff I flush down porceline(sp?). If I sounded blunt and too direct it's only because lately I have written a lot of these types of critiques because I have been trying to help the progression of poetry....and often I'm unsure if I'm helping or hindering. Anyways, please don't stop writing and posting. I'd like to read more of your work and watch how it progresses. Thank you for sharing this poem and letting me read it. Take care,
Trevor

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