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Critical Analysis #1
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Untitled (suggestions PLEASE!)
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Untitled (suggestions PLEASE!) |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Now I lay you down to sleep To the past, my thoughts do creep. To your first breath my soul doth fly, Which makes me wonder why,why,why? I feel you nursing at my breast, My heart so full, all at rest. The soft sweet skin, your angel hair. Why oh why, how do I care? For as I breathe you do not, And for this I am forgot. The dreams for you I ever sot, Are vacant now in this cold plot. I tell you now, my heart doth crave, Graduation bold and brave. Your wedding day, mother most proud, Is lost behind this pitted shourd. My thoughts be still, just lay me down, Beside your casket in the ground. For if I wake another day, My heart turns cold, old and grey. So now I lay you down to sleep, No more, I pray, my thoughts to creep. [This message has been edited by Marilyn (edited 09-29-1999).] |
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| © Copyright 1999 Marilyn - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Truly heartbreaking, Marilyn. I'm so sorry. For a title perhaps 'A Mother's Tears' or perhaps 'Tears Eternal' or simply 'Why?' Again, Marilyn, I'm so sorry. ------------------ Denise |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Denise.....I guess I should have posted that this was written for a dear friends loss not my own. Being a mother myself I felt pain for her. I could never imagine the depth of loss a childs death can cause. I don't want to know either. I do see it in her everyday and it has been 2 years since her loss. This is dedicated to Linda. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Extend to Linda my sympathies, Marilyn. My friend also lost her son (5 years ago). She'll never be the same. ------------------ Denise |
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Isis Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296Sunny Queensland |
As I always say there is no greater loss in the world than that of a mother losing her child.. You did a lovely thing there Marilyn. You want a title? Just 'A Mother's Loss' seems ok to me. ------------------ A hero is a man who does what he can. ~Isis~ (The Fragile Rose) |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Denise....Thankyou for your kind thoughts. I know they mean the world to Linda. Who could possiblily be the same? Isis...I do so appreciate your comments. I was almost afraid to post this poem. It has laid burried for some time. To share the feelings here, I hope will heal. [This message has been edited by Marilyn (edited 09-28-1999).] |
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Isis Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296Sunny Queensland |
Marilyn my dear, thanks for saying i am accomplished, what a compliment!! I look to the others and feel that way about some of them. I love this poem old or not. I can't pick any true faults with it. The rhythm and rhyme are good and flowing. But I have a challenge for you - a slightly different exercise.. Instead of making every 2nd line rhyme try making 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 rhyme. Instead of: The cat sat on the mat, For he was fat. (YOUR METHOD) Try like:- The cat sat on the mat, He was a smart old thing, Can you imagine that, And what happiness he may bring Rhyme line 2 and 4 is best I think.. Anyway, have a fiddle and write in topic heading Challenge from Isis. That is if you are game. Hawkwing did it for me and it was the first time I tried free verse ever!! What do you think? ------------------ A hero is a man who does what he can. ~Isis~ (The Fragile Rose) |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Isis....I take your challenge. I will work on it and post what I have come up with after work today. Ièm always game for a new challenge. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
"Mother's Lament" or "Too Soon Gone". Please express my sympathy over the loss of her child...no parent should have to go through that, but too many of us do. |
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Pepper Member Elite
since 1999-08-19
Posts 3079Southern Florida |
touched me deeply Marilyn....please extend my sympathies to Linda too ------------------ May your days be filled with lots of sunshine and your nights lit up by golden moonbeams |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Sunshine and pepper. Thankyou for reading and expressing your thoughts. I will extend your thoughts to Linda. I appreciate it so much. |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Marilyn, this is a breathtaking piece, let me say first of all. So far as suggestions, I would say that the comma's you are using on the fourth syllables are uneccessary and to some readers may even interrupt the sweet flow this poem has....i.e. Lines ,3,9,10,12,13,16,18,19,21 I would also suggest either capitalizing the first word of all sentences, or all lines in general....i.e.Line 8, this is something I have seen in a few of your post. Keep posting and I will offer all the assistance I can as per our chat. I really enjoyed this piece. ------------------ Michael Anderson May Darkness find you all through the day. |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Thankyou Micheal. I will edit this piece. If you would reread and see if it flow smoother. I would appreciate it. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
WARNING: Negative criticism (brace yourself or don't read this) Marilyn, I mean no disrespect and everybody else here seems to have been moved by the poem so perhaps what I say here should simply be ignored (I'm moved by the information you gave us but, sorry, not the poem). You're using two techniques that are generally used for comic poetry (today): 1. the conscious use of another poem (or prayer) as a backdrop is usually for parody. 2. A couplet rhyme scheme creates a very snappy feel to a poem. It works fine in comic or 'happy' poems but I found it very disconcerting with such a serious topic. These aren't rules of course but I would suggest trying a different form. Another point to consider: I think that the form has determined some of the phrasings and it's limiting you: I tell you now, my heart doth crave, Graduation bold and brave. Your wedding day, mother most proud Do you or anybody you know talk like this? 'doth' is archaic and I see no reason to put that in there. What is a shourd? It looks like it should be shrowd. Some people mentioned that they found a rhythm; I found it difficult (could be me) but I would definitely think about cleaning up the meter if you want a rhythm in this piece. Last, again I mean no disrespect to the actual events of your friend's life but I really think you should try a different style to lend such a serious topic more dignity. Brad |
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rachana.s Member
since 1999-09-16
Posts 55madras,tamil nadu,India |
Marily, first, beautiful poem. second, my condolences to linda. third, brad, if it were not for the fact that I respect so much your comments and welcome so much your ideas, i would sure like to dunk you in a trough of water (please that was not ment seriously). this poem sure is good. rachi |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Rachana, Please understand. You have every right to be angry with me. However, if a POEM is posted in this forum, I believe we should discuss the POEM and not the reason for writing it. Please, please understand that I believe in poetry (my own experience) and not the simple games everyone else seems to play. I want better poetry. That was all I was trying to do. I believe in this stuff more than you can ever know. If you want, I will try to explain. Please forgive me, Brad |
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Mona Lisa Member
since 1999-08-25
Posts 100Halifax, Nova Scotia |
I enjoyed the poem and felt the sense of loss the writer wanted to convey. Brad, your points are well taken, but I have the following comments... Of the following stanza, I tell you now, my heart doth crave, Graduation bold and brave. Your wedding day, mother most proud you had this to say, "Do you or anybody you know talk like this? 'doth' is archaic and I see no reason to put that in there". Help me understand your critisim of this particular phrasing as I think the wording here works fine. You say nobody talks this way but you should keep in mind this is poetry and there is a certain freedom that comes with the way it can be expressed. I feel in poetry, it is ok for the words to sing to the reader. To always write poetry in everyday vernacular is sometimes too trite for its overall beauty. Just my opinion. |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
Brad I appreciate your thoughts on this piece and the reason I had this piece moved here is for help to make it better. I am very new to poetry. I wanted critical analysis. I do not agree with your comment about the use of doth in this piece. It is just my opinion. does just didn't work for me...not reverent enough. I found this form appropriate to this piece to give comfort in a time of turmoil. Such a loss is difficult to imagine and to write a dark piece with a dark form would not sooth but hurt deeply. As for the spelling mistake...I am ashamed. |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
i totally agree with brad on this one.... the children's prayer "now i lay me down to sleep" has a sing-song rythym to it that i feel is inappropriate to this poem's content. the meter you chose to follow here, marilyn, and the couplet rhymes, simply do not convey a sense of pain, sorrow, loss, or grief. i like isis' suggestion of rhyming (if you must rhyme) a-b-a-b, although it perhaps deserves an even more complex scheme. even if you were to follow the meter and rhyming scheme of the prayer, you need to work on sticking to it. sometimes you begin a line with an accented word or syllable, other times with an unstressed word or syllable, and there doesn't seem to be any reason (or pattern) to this; moreover, a few lines have a "silent" or skipped beat that breaks the rythym ("my heart so full, all at rest" and "my heart turns cold, old and grey"). i agree with brad on using the archaic "doth" here, too, i don't think it works. the line "i tell you now my heart doth crave" fits your meter, i guess (if you're beginning lines with an unstressed beat, although your first 2 lines and the very next line ["graduation bold and brave"] begins with a stressed or accented beat), but "doth" is completely jarring, and does not "sing" at all (to me, at least). i entirely agree with you that poems do not always have to be in the everyday vernacular, but for a poem to be effective, i think the writer has to find the appropriate tone and stay with it. i like the simple, heartfelt tone you chose, but throwing an archaic word in there (and in the third line) weakens the poem. "your wedding day, mother most proud" has the right number of syllables or beats, but the natural accents are wrong. your meter alternates stressed and unstressed beats (starting either on the first or second beats), which is fine, but that line breaks the rythym, regardless of whether the first or second beat in the line is accented: "your WEDding DAY, MO-ther most PROUD" is how it reads naturally, but your meter scheme would make it "your WED-ding DAY, mo-THER most PROUD," which is a totally unnatural way to say the word "mother." and a few spelling errors (i can't resist): both you and brad got it wrong with the cloth used to wrap the deceased; it should be "shroud." "sot", a noun meaning a drunkard, should be "sought", i believe. one more thing: i see why you ended the poem the way you did, repeating the second line, but i thought the last line was kind of clunky. (sorry, can't come up with a better way to describe it.) my own thoughts here, for what they are worth, are that the poem demands a soft, contemplative tone, and the opportunity to vary the power and force of the lines, to convey the speaker's waves of pain, grief, guilt, sorrow, and sadness... in other words, free verse -- "now i lay me down to sleep..." so often we did pray together, kneeling beside your little bed in the hush of evening time; like an angel you blessed us every one, and stole away to a land of dreams. kneeling now beside your grave, i _________ [....] -- or something of that kind would work much better, although this is, true, merely my personal preference. please, please don't shoot the messenger. i think we are all here to become better writers of this most challenging of art forms, and i offer my suggestions solely in that spirit. if it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be worth doing, right? |
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Marilyn Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621Ontario, Canada |
jenni...you are right. I am very new to writting poems and need the help. I need to know how to structure a poem. I wrote this from feeling alone. Some of the terms I have heard here are foriegn to me. I am looking for imput and I will take what both you and Brad have said and try to make this a better poem. The muse is close to my heart and deserves the best I can give it. |
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rachana.s Member
since 1999-09-16
Posts 55madras,tamil nadu,India |
Merlyn, I understand about just writing from feelings. I am too sailing in a similar boat too. brad, I am not angry with you nor am I questioning your love of poetry. I do respect and admire your sense and every day in this forum is a learning experience for me especially as I write just from feeling and not from the knowledge of poetry structure - which I am interested in learning. But I also am a simple person who believes that just as in life when you make a choice, you can never split the choice from the situation it was taken in. Though the choice is what ultimately matters, the situation actually contributes to the choice. Similary you can never split the reason from the poem. When I write a poem the reason for which I wrote it contributes to what makes it dear to me. There I go spewing philosophy (I'm sorry. it is an affliction) Any way I accept your comments but what I was saying is that I still may not be able to split reason or feeling form poetry and sometimes even if it affects the form it is still dear to me. Please do not take me wrong, I do respect what you say and I'm sure it will help me write better poetry but I guess sometimes I'd rather keep the poem the way it is. please do not take me wrong and please keep commenting on my poems (I had an earlier post did you see it?) And please do explain. I would like to know. rachi [This message has been edited by rachana.s (edited 10-01-1999).] |
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Littlewings Member
since 1999-09-19
Posts 62 |
brad- in all your critisism I've yet to read anything of yours that flows smoothly or sounds right(to my liking) I think you should realize that Poetry is meant for expression of feelings and sometimes our feelings are as bumpy and ungraceful as anything.You focus toooooo much on the "correct way to do this or that...think about this mother!! do you think that when she was writing this she was focused on being grammerically correct?? she was pouring out her soul!!! she was mourning her child!!!I want to say I love this poem soooo much and thank god for people who write exactly what they feel!!! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
rachi, my comment was a bit too dramatic (that's what you get when you post after a few drinks) -- I really hate comments like 'you don't know' or 'if only you knew what I've been through' stuff. I'm always thinking: 'Well, tell me so I can understand'. Of course, I don't have time to explain all of that right now (figures, huh?). Go to Lynn's poem and read the Dylan Thomas (what a great quote!!) thing she put there and you can see partially where I'm coming from. Littlewings, I'm unsure what you mean with the first two lines of your post but please disagree with me anytime you choose. However, I suspect you're a member of the 'get through the words and see the meaning, emotion behind that insignificant and inadequate thing called language' crowd. There is a lot to discuss here but please remember, without a language, there is instinct and I don't think that's quite what you mean. Maybe take this to the philosophy forum? Have a good time, Brad  |
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Larry A. Tilander Junior Member
since 1999-10-04
Posts 13Belleville, Ontario, Canada |
Hi, I don't know what was expected for one to do. I kept the style and language, and smoothed out the meter, changing as few words as I could, while strengthening where I was able to gently. Larry My child, I lay you down to sleep To the past, my thoughts do creep. To your first breath my soul doth fly, My broken heart screams, why,why,why? I feel you nursing at my breast, My heart so full, my soul at rest. Your soft sweet skin, silk angel hair. Again ask why, so much I care? I must breathe on though you do not, As I live you won't be forgot. The dreams for you that I have sought, Are rubbish now in this cold plot. So much for you my heart did crave, Graduation bold and brave. Your wedding day, your mom so proud, My dreams, and yours, wrapped in this shroud. My thoughts be still, I'd lay me down, Beside your casket in the ground. I wake, and wake another day, My heart turns cold, I age and grey. So now I lay you down to sleep, No more, I pray, my thoughts to creep. |
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Larry A. Tilander Junior Member
since 1999-10-04
Posts 13Belleville, Ontario, Canada |
Brad. You too spelled shroud incorrectly. I found the rhythm easy to master, and straighten out. As for the language usage, it looks like we have a case here of "English as a second language." The phrasing suggests Spanish Catholisism, which becomes very formal in serious situations. All the lady wanted was someone to smooth out the knots. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
So, Larry, do you want to play? I make mistakes (and you were right to point that out.) but what is your point? I am not better than anyone else. I beieve in poetry. Do you? |
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Larry A. Tilander Junior Member
since 1999-10-04
Posts 13Belleville, Ontario, Canada |
Good Heavens. I wasn't even criticizing; Just pointing out. Play? I am ever playing. Do I believe in poetry? The way you believe in air. |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
english as a second language? spanish catholicism?? huh??? (btw, larry, you spelled catholicism wrong, lol.) |
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rachana.s Member
since 1999-09-16
Posts 55madras,tamil nadu,India |
larry, that was a good job. but can you explain this spanish thing. brad, what happened? you seem to be suddenly out of line(no criticism intended). I depend too much on your objective criticism so I'm just a little surprised by the exchange. littlewings, please, everone has a right to state their opinions. I do not have to be a great musician to comment on music or enjoy it. can we get back to what we do best? rachi |
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Larry A. Tilander Junior Member
since 1999-10-04
Posts 13Belleville, Ontario, Canada |
Yeah, I only use spell check when I write for posterity. Oops. The Spanish thing was an attempt at deduction as to the origin of the phraseology used in the poem. I used the fact that one of the letters in the author's subsequent posts had an accent mark over it as an indicator. Speaking of deduction, how did you know I normally write music? |
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