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Open Poetry #49
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Michael
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since 1999-08-13
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0 posted 2014-03-01 09:51 PM


Expression of the Heart


'Tried publishing my poetry,
I had been told I should.
Yeah, all my friends had bragged on me,
They though I was quite good.

But I got the envelope back
In way too short a time.
'Seems they couldn't deal with the fact
Lines five and seven weren't true rhyme.

The meter was off in line eight,
I stubbed my iambic toe.
Now my poem, I once thought great,
Had my head hanging low.

So I fixd the meter— fixed those feet,
Taking all of an hour.
That made my poem, once so sweet,
Seem just a tad bit sour.

I gave them a perfect rhyme scheme,
No, nothing less would do;
But 'thought the poem lost its theme,
Just shows you what I knew...

Cause now the publisher's bought it,
Yeah I made a few bucks.
Still I wonder, was it worth it"
My friends all think it sucks.

To meet their meter and measure,
Emotion lost release.
The publishers got their pleasure,
But left me with no peace.

Yes, indeed, I have to question
Such detailed critique of art.
When poetry, in my conception,
Is but expression of the heart.


Michael Anderson

10/22/99

[This message has been edited by Michael (03-09-2014 11:25 AM).]

© Copyright 2014 Michael Anderson - All Rights Reserved
Michael
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since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666
California
1 posted 2014-03-01 10:10 PM


All I am saying, Lori, is there are way too many perceptions of what poetry should be, for both free verse and rhyming poetry.  I have seen many "perfect" variations of formed poetry and the only thing I can say they had in common is they all lacked the capability to keep me captured in the reading.  To thine own poetry be true before you start worrying about editing too much of the content.  

Say what you want in the style you choose, and it doesn't have to be one that adhere's to anyone elses rules.  You use occasional rhymes in your verse, I always thought that added a little to it.  You use adjectives as nouns, especially in a first person possessive form.  That is something I don't think I've ever seen anyone else do, but you make it work no matter how many rules I am sure you're breaking.  So I guess what I am saying is you already have a style of writing, and it's one I think works well.  Don't get so caught up in what some people believe poetry has to be that you lose sight of what brought you to write to begin with.  


Michael

JerryPat2
Member Laureate
since 2011-02-06
Posts 16975
South Louisiana
2 posted 2014-03-01 10:13 PM


Michael is telling it like it is, Lori, and I agree with him. Poetry is completely from the heart. If you are into strict forms and can say what you want to say without stretching credibility then that is good. Again, I say, poetry is from the heart. I shy away from in-depth critiques because personally it pisses me off for the most part. Lori should like this, Michael.

~*~ People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. ~*~

Lori Grosser Rhoden
Member Patricius
since 2009-10-10
Posts 10202
Fair to middlin' of nowhere
3 posted 2014-03-01 10:57 PM


Thank you Michael!  Your poem was cool-it was you, only on a dress down day. And your comments after really made me feel good. You are so sweet to do that. Bless your heart

Lori

Lori Grosser Rhoden
Member Patricius
since 2009-10-10
Posts 10202
Fair to middlin' of nowhere
4 posted 2014-03-01 11:05 PM


You are right Jerry, I really did like it.
Thank you for your continuous support.

Lori


ebonygirl
Member Elite
since 2011-07-14
Posts 2000
California U.S.A
5 posted 2014-03-02 04:09 PM


Well said, Michael!
Oh... and Hi! How are you?

Michael
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since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666
California
6 posted 2014-03-03 09:11 AM


Thank you Jer, and I'm glad you enjoyed, Lori.

Hi Ms E, I'm doing good... just working a gazillion hours a week right now.  How's everything with you?

Michael

ebonygirl
Member Elite
since 2011-07-14
Posts 2000
California U.S.A
7 posted 2014-03-04 01:20 AM


I've been reading my poetry at an Open Mic here in town. I'm also learning to play the guitar. Lol...my fingers are slowly moving where I want them to go.
Ms. E

JamesMichael
Member Empyrean
since 1999-11-16
Posts 33336
Kapolei, Hawaii, USA
8 posted 2014-03-05 09:35 PM


nice...James
hunnie_girl
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since 2006-06-18
Posts 2567
Canada
9 posted 2014-03-07 12:54 PM


Yes!!!! Poetry is from the heart, every word you wrote rings true!
Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
10 posted 2014-03-07 07:58 PM


You surprise me, Michael. Jerry, you don't.
JerryPat2
Member Laureate
since 2011-02-06
Posts 16975
South Louisiana
11 posted 2014-03-07 08:04 PM


Haha! I'm sure I didn't surprise you, Balladeer.

~*~ There was a sign on the lawn at a drug re-hab center that said 'Keep off the Grass'. ~*~

Michael
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since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666
California
12 posted 2014-03-08 01:28 PM


Lol Balladeer.  I married the woman who "thinks in iambic pentameter."  Imagine her surprize to find out I was tone-deaf.  She spent years trying to get the concept of enunciation on the proper feet through  to me, and while I can count syllables and
use internal rhyme to help mask it, I never could truly grasp it.  The mathematical part of my brain told me every syllable in the english language could be assigned a value, and I could memorize the order.  A good theory I suppose, but trust me when I say the english language is not so kind, or amenable, as A might be greater than B, and B greater than C, but C is definately greater than A was the problem with no sloution I found over and over again.

For all the poetic talent I supposedly posess, I guess that was just God's sense of humor.  This devastated me for awhile, but when I thought about it, as selfish as this sounds, I started writing because of a need within myself, not because I wanted to be "perfect."  So I chose to set my own measure for my work, polish it to my own standards, and be happy with it and if anyone else aprreciates or understands it, well all the better.  It would rather truly touch one soul than please a million form followers.     

I know how overwhelmed and defeated I felt when too much help was arriving too quickly for me to properly proccess and analyze... and I felt like Lori was feeling a little bit of that too.  That's why I posted this, not so your advice would be spurned, but so that she understands her writing stlye already has merits she can build on, and that she has the choice of which direction she wants her poetry to follow.  

Michael

Michael
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since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666
California
13 posted 2014-03-08 05:55 PM


Oh, and thank you all once again for the kind replies.

I'm jealous Ms E, open mic and guitar are two of the truest pleasures in life.  

Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael (03-08-2014 08:29 PM).]

Balladeer
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since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
14 posted 2014-03-08 06:22 PM


Yes, MIchael, of course she has the right to choose. That's why I wrote these lines:

Your audience will love it whatever you do.
Hey, if you're happy with what you are writing, keep on keeping on!
I gave it because you asked for it, yours to either use or ignore.

Your last stanza clashes with your explanation made here but I'll accept it. It was certainly enough to bring in Jerry from the sidelines to proclaim how critiques "(blanks) him off", which really makes little sense since it was a solicited critique.

Let me set the record straight. During the time I have been here, which is almost from the inception of the site, no one has ever seen me criticize another's poem. PIP is a social site that uses poetry to communicate. No one here, including me, claim to be accomplished poets. We have people from all stations of life here and many countries. Our poetry may range from horrendous to sublime. It doesn't matter. It's the interaction that has made Passions the site it is, along with the respect of the members toward each other.

Having said that, there are those who claim to write a specific form of structured verse, announce it as such, like a villanelle, and, should it be pointed out that their structure does not comply with the correct characteristics of the form - while their "accepting critiques" option is enabled - then it upsets them. Well, self-deception is their right, I suppose. They should not have accepted critiques. That's why Ron put the option there.

There are others who genuinely want an honest critique of their work, such as I believe Lori did. She didn't ask for the standard insincere comments that run rampant here in the name of friendship. She actually wanted advice about something important to her. I took the time to try to help her, much more time than the responders who simply said "It's wonderful!" I did not do it in an uncaring way and was respectful in my replies, letting her know that my thoughts were suggestions and that she could do whatever she wanted with them. Am I qualified to make those suggestions? Well, by the comments you have given my poetry over the years, I would say you seem to think so.....and, yes, I do know structure, as you well know. Does good structure make for good poetry? Absolutely not, but as someone once said "You gotta know the rules so you know how to break 'em".

I simply tried to help a fellow poet out and it generated disdain from her, a gentle admonishing-type poem from you and Jerry cheerleading from the rear.  Tempest in a teapot. Life goes on....and so do we.

Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666
California
15 posted 2014-03-08 07:13 PM


You had/have nothing to defend Balladeer, I understood where you were coming from from the beginning.  I know your offers were genuine and truly wouldn't have even got involved myself had I not sensed that Lori was a little flustered with all the input.

I was not attacking you in any way.  I remember from my own experience how intimidating it was when I first came to Passions and asked for help myself.  I did write rhyming poetry, if not ascribing to forms, and was told many things my poetry "must" have if I were gonna write formed poetry.

I guess that's where the dilemna lies...  are we suggesting or demanding when we critique?  Who decides if a poem sits well with "all" readers?  Where is the line of what's proper drawn?  Is it in one man's head?  Can it be taken on a case-by-case basis?  I believe all readers have a voice and the option to share it with anyone and on anything when it comes to critique, but while they might offer constructive options that they prefer, they do not conclusively speak for all poets no matter how well versed they view themselves on the topic, and they certainly don't speak for poetry as a whole.

I came to the party late with Lori's post, much was already said and there was a lot of confusion before I even got there, much less spoke.  I would have asked her if she were wanting to wite rhymed verses before presuming to tell her her rhyme scheme needed work.
Other than that, I had no issues with your help at all.  I, personally, would have suggested Lori follow her usual form having read much of what she's written and expressed quite well over the past two years, but as I said, I came in a little late.
  
While I don't care to follow poetic rules to the T, I will say that I know you know what you are talking about and respect you as a poet because you can do that and still ellicit emotion from the reader.  As a person, I know you will help anyone who asks for it and that I repsect as well.  

I'm sorry if you felt a little rubbed by my earlier reply.  As I said before, I was in no way attacking you.


Michael

...How many hours of night or day
In those suspended pangs I lay,
I could not tell; I scarcely knew
If this were human breath I drew...

Byron

Jack Napes
Member
since 2014-02-22
Posts 290
Phaedra's Womb
16 posted 2014-03-08 11:41 PM


Will the last person out of here please kill the lights?

I heal better in the dark.

Touch, but don't look

Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
17 posted 2014-03-09 11:08 AM


Understood, MIchael, and I recognize your points. Be well....
Gale
Senior Member
since 2013-06-10
Posts 578
Russia
18 posted 2014-03-10 09:01 AM


Has made me smile
It's brilliant, Michael, very true )
Of course rhyming and metering both make sense, but when you lose the heart of your poem for the sake of its form, it's meaningless!
Well, le mieux est I'ennemi du bien.

BluesSerenade
Member Patricius
since 2001-10-23
Posts 10549
By the Seaside
19 posted 2014-03-10 05:03 PM


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's the interaction that has made Passions the site it is, along with the respect of the members toward each other.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She didn't ask for the standard insincere comments that run rampant here in the name of friendship. She actually wanted advice about something important to her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is it just me who takes offense to that comment??   In all sincerity Michael, your poem is spot on, and I have always admired you as a poet... we are all individuals and your intent was clear in your replies, as was Balladeers. But are we all so small and insincere!!  I think that's a general assumption that lumps everyone together, (since our standard insincere replies run rampant) Wow... that's one way to kill the moral around here.  

Balladeer
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since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
20 posted 2014-03-10 11:34 PM


No one is lumped together, Blues, and no one should be offended. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. Like I said, it is a social site. People like to acknowledge their friends and also like to exchange favors. Regardless of the quality of the poem, many will still say "Great poem!" or "Love it!" or some other such comment, just to let their friend knows they are supporting them....and there's nothing wrong with that. It's not doing a favor to anyone who wants a critique or some kind of constructive criticism to help them become better in their poetic endeavors but it still makes people feel good knowing that they have been noticed. If you can honestly say you have never done something like that, then you are in the minority. I repeat...it's a social site....and a darned good one. The morale here has always been strong and always will be, because of such interaction.
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