»
Archives
»
Open Poetry #48
»
class dismissed
| Open Poetry #48 |
|
class dismissed |
|
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738
|
The shavings curled in to a pile she hadn't heard a word, but bled a yellow sort of decoupage below her puzzled pink dismay as evidenced embarrassment that she had just been miles away whittling the words she'd heard into a heap of pain and "they" always have so much to say... Her name went on the board again. (She hated recess anyway) She'd learn the lesson while they played It's easier to concentrate when they weren't laughing at her clothes or how the tears ran down her nose adding to the emptiness of things not written on the page so she'd have no thing to say when the teacher called her name to read the words she couldn't say for those who'd used them as a way to hurt her when she walked their way with difference written on her face. She learned the lesson while they played. |
||
| © Copyright 2012 serenity blaze - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
JerryPat2 Member Laureate
since 2011-02-06
Posts 16975South Louisiana |
If you were to insert he instead of she I could be that person. My mother used to make my own shirts out of old flour sacks, and the collars were always over-sized long. I had to laugh when the sixties rolled around with the shirts with over-sized collars. Unlike the girl in this wonderful piece, I bluffed my way through it all as an all-around joker. This was a poignant piece and told a sad tale, but one where the lessons still got done even if she had to do them as they played. ~*~ If they give you lined paper, write sideways. ~*~ |
||
|
Lori Grosser Rhoden Member Patricius
since 2009-10-10
Posts 10202Fair to middlin' of nowhere |
You have captured well the deep hurting of the one "they" single out without mercy. Well done. Lori  |
||
|
ethome Member Patricius
since 2000-05-14
Posts 11858New Brunswick Canada |
Yep, everybody knows one or has had the experience. Great setting here and it became very visual as I read this sad write. Eric true love never looks after it's own interests |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm not sure if it was me or them--but I quote Janis Joplin occasionally, and she said it about her classmates, very slowly and diplomatically: "I felt...apart--from them." I understood her when she said that and if that's what I conveyed, then I feel kinda okay about this one.  Thanks for reading. |
||
|
Dark Stranger Member Patricius
since 2001-03-19
Posts 13631West Coast |
K bomb momma..you take away the fun of the laughers, by surviving so well. |
||
|
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Sharing your mirror, baby girl... sharing the memories of yesterday. |
||
|
Startime1955 Senior Member
since 2012-04-22
Posts 1072Alberta, Canada |
Memories are all too real...thank you for writing it so well... *may our dreams ever be magical* |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
It reminded me a little more of Emily Dickinson, actually, than I see in writers these days, and I wanted a bit more of that voice. To supply it wouldn't have worked out well for the poem, and it would have been pretty close to impossible to do anyway, but I was startled to see that element of — I guess I think of it as "twisted precision"— in your work was a surprise for me. And yet, there it was. I was happy to read it. I don’t know why you center-justified the lines. I found it a distraction. I think you made good use of the meter, mostly tetrameter. E.D. liked that hymn/ ballade meter, the four foot alternating with three foot lines, I saw a three foot line, though it was seven syllables. In a different context, it might call for a four foot scansion, but not here, I think, where the tetrameter is so good for most of the rest of the poem. As a potentially useful suggestion, how about a slight tense shift in line nine to add the extra syllable, clarify the presence of the fourth foot and, potentially, add a little bit of an emotional kick? “[H]ave always had so much to say. . ..” would be my suggestion. I don’t know that you need the stanza breaks following the next several lines. The actual parentheses, though not their content, don’t seem to add to the poem overall. A frequent comment in university poetry workshops about parenthetical material is that it should be cut. Here, I don’t think the material should be cut, that it actually helps the poem along. The line following, “She’d learned the lesson while they played” might in fact come out. The line is simply a summary of what the next several lines demonstrate far more convincingly. In fact, it might be a toss-up, and if you feel up to experimenting to see if the poem works better with or without the line — after having somebody with the poor manners to suggest it in the first place — it’d probably be worth your while to check out the ill mannered suggestion on your own. Prepositions are always a pain in the rear for me. It’s hard to get them nail down so they don’t come loose, and they seem to be a weak point in a lot of lines that tend to show up when you’re working with rhymes, especially.. The reason for that is I think that a lot of idioms seem to turn on their prepositions, and successful rhyming means you may have to trim and fit idioms so they’ll fit together inside a line, preserving the rhythm and allowing for the rhyme — all of it without calling attention. Tears don’t run down noses. Noses are a high point on the face. My tears always run past my nose, and you don’t want to hand me a detail to quarrel with at an emotional high point in your poem. Those of us who have difficulty processing emotion will be only too happy to get distracted. Those who are only responding to the emotion are missing the large amount of work you’ve put into making this a well put together poem. The poem needs to deal with the whole package, and I think, frankly, you’ve got the emotional stuff nailed cold. I’d be wasting your time, trying to comment on your treatment of that. At this point, after the nose, you get caught up in saying things that are obscure. I understand the negativity is one of the speaker’s points here, and I’m suggesting that you find a way to describe the incidents and examples that doesn’t keep me from forming pictures of what the protagonist is actually doing and saying; and what’s happening to her. If I have to stop, slow down,and work at following the train of logic to form a solid set of pictures to take me through this last stanza, you will run the danger of me falling outside the spell of the poem. You turn the poem into more of a translation process than, ideally, it could be. The last four lines of this stanza work very well, beginning, “when the teacher called her name[.]” It’s the confusion of multiple negatives and the lack of clear imagery between the wretched children laughing at the protagonist’s clothes and the teacher calling her name that bog me down. “[S]o she’d have no thing to say” is metrically awkward. The substitution of “no thing” for “nothing” sticks out as the sort of usage that is exceptionally rare in the language. If a writer chooses to use it, it should have an enormous payoff that should have been celebrated in its success by every commentator on the poem thus far. It was a large risk for no reward. You need a better solution, and I have none to offer at this point; but one should come if you feel there is a problem that needs to be worked with. “[W]ith difference written on her face[,]” written as two lines seems to be one line, and should have a good reason for showing up on two lines, marked as two stanza. Were this free verse, the move might be workable, but here it raises questions about the form of the poem at exactly the time I believe the reader should be savoring a solid and well formed ending. Why draw attention away from the ending and the sense of closure that the poem supplies, due to your solid work? You undercut yourself. Having returned to the line about play and lessons which I thought overly explanatory when used above, you seen to feel obligated to use it again. This suggests that I may have been wrong in my initial thinking about the line. I don’t think the line actually belonged where it was before, nor do I believe it belongs where it is now, but I do think that you are returning to the line because it has something to do with a title for the piece. It may be worth your while to experiment with the ideas in this line as potential titles. I know that many more traditional folks would want you to straighten up your rhyme scheme into some form of regular couplets, but I frankly disagree with that, and I like what you’ve done with the rhymes and the internal vowel music of this piece a lot. This is a very good draft, and I’m happy to be able to see it and enjoy it, even with the minor roughnesses it has in its current form. “Decoupage” and “puzzled pink dismay” had me from the beginning. REALLY good stuff. All my best, Bob Kaven |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
You put a lot of thought into this and I'd like to return the favor. Right now the only thing I can think is to point out that tears do too run down noses when your head is held down... I almost even placed a bad visual there. Some mood music while I read? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAvHwV_pDNo (It's not often I get such an in-depth reply, and I'd like some tea--have some with?) and hey--thank you. My mood matched the tone but you made me smile. |
||
|
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
 When I hold my head in a certain way, if and when I cry, tears do run down my nose.  |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I should warn you that I'll stand behind every line, every space of this poem, right down to the line breaks and repeitition--not because I think I'm a great writer--but because I know that I am not. And my tea's Earl Grey, extra sweet--but only because I have trouble finding Rooibos... The centering? I do it 'cause I like it. If I were more traditional, I'd lean to the left (um, that sounded funny saying it to you and that was a joke so you must laugh) but I do know people who are very adept at word sculpting, and my little odd line spacings and breaks are my way of doing that. I am trying to get the reader to hear it the way I hear it in my mind. It's questionable if that's more effective or not, but I always did feel like if I could just say something using exactly the right tone or words, then people would understand me and I wouldn't be so damned miserable. *fifty-fifty* success rate so far. I've already explained about the physics of tears and noses, except I should have explained that the child's head isn't completely down on thte desk, just tilted down avoiding eye contact. I deliberately seperated the word "nothing", because I was caught up in that moment where a kid feels put on the spot about a topic and has can't think of a single thing to say about a topic. But I do congratulate you with no sarcasm and no feeling of defensiveness, because if the rest of that verse is obscure to you then you were not the kid with the cooties, and as one of the chosen ones, you managed to get through grade school intact. She'd learn the lesson while they played A line I thought important enough to isolate and put in italics because it showed a point of time of um, I don't know if it's emotional arrestment, but how a child learns to cope with social anxiety. It's integrat to the poem and had to be repeated and slightly altered at the end, to show that same defensive maneuver is still around, the same game but slightly different, and a part of the poem but apart from the poem just as the child learned to be a part of society and apart from society. And you were right. I put a lot of thought into this one, but not in the metrics, because my head hurt bad enough before, so smile with me that I just didn't feel like failing at iambic pentameter again. You are so very astute Bob, I am only slightly surprised that you didn't make note of my title--as a pundit and lover of double intendre', I simply couldn't resist that one again. But here I am now, a kid who had no idea what to do with a piece of paper but build a mountain with pencil shavings on it, wishing she could just be invisible, to actually filling a page because um, it's the internet--and I CAN be invisible. And the musical interlude in our reply section was a happy coicidence of one of my favorite songs that came on as an episode of House ended just as I read your reply. My best to you, with gratitude. I know I've been flighty and impulsive and yes, deliberately obnoxious in the past, but I'm trying harder to behave myself so I appreciate your gallant reply to my poor little girl. One day I'm going to have to go back for her, I think. *wink* OH. And as for any line breaks or typos in the reply section here--I can't say it enough--I HATE Windows 7. |
||
|
latearrival Member Ascendant
since 2003-03-21
Posts 5499Florida |
Loved every bit of it and could definitely see that little girl sitting there in embarrassment with her head cocked off to the side hiding tears and runny nose~ jo |
||
|
Marchmadness Member Rara Avis
since 2007-09-16
Posts 9271So. El Monte, California |
Yes, Karen, I can also relate. I think people become poets,singers/artists etc. when they turn inward to find solace and end up winning. Great write. Ida |
||
|
nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
"but how a child learns to cope with social anxiety" that and the "no thing"... I got it completely as I sit here recalling some of those same feelings way back when... and even see some of it today in the classrooms~~ M |
||
|
Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Wow... this took me back to a place I really didn't want to go I suppose. /cringing Exceptional write K. Michael |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear serenity, Experiment in private. Show successful results in public. Being friends here, we are somewhere in between, so we get to see some of the writerly experiments. Time I spend wondering about center-justification is time I’m not spending reading your poem. The wondering-time is purely internal. It goes on inside my head, and Serenity’s technique is only the subject of the Bob-rumination. I suspect you would rather have me spend my time inside the world created by Serenity’s lovely and touching poem. I know I’d rather be spending my time there. This is the point I try to make in most of my comments. I don’t try to get complicated and talk about the history of criticism. I find that of limited interest. It’s also of limited use in helping other writers. I don’t care about who is right or not right about whether a poet should center-justify or not. Probably I should care about that, but it simply isn’t practical and doesn’t help YOU. I don’t need to be right, anyway, about writing. About politics, sure. About writing, I need to be helpful. The question I’m asking is, Where do you want your reader’s attention? More specifically, Where do you want my attention? I am a decent, experienced reader of poetry, after all. I can tell you where it is, and, much of the time, I can tell you why it’s there. I do care that you were miserable as a kid, by the way. That’s not the reason, however, that I didn’t know about you crying with your head down on the desk. The reason I didn’t know about your head being down on the desk is that you didn’t give me enough information about where to look: It’s not because I didn’t suffer as a kid in school. For somebody who suffered as a kid in school, you sure make a lot of assumptions about whether I did or didn’t. Briefly, asthma kept me from breathing properly till I was 14; and I spent a lot of time confined to my room. The school wanted to put me in a class for slow learners because I not a good student. I daydreamed constantly. I was also pounded on fairly frequently. The IQ testing necessary to put me in the slow class didn’t turn out the way the school expected, and they had to put me in with the bright people. I made my first friend after my family left town for upstate New York. No more steel mills, tire factories and industrial pollution. Real air. It doesn’t matter whether or not I was Mr. Popular, though. I’m part of your audience. It’s important that you write for yourself, yes, AFTER you write clear english sentences that keep your audience oriented and informed. Complain to me about your childhood when you give me enough information to understand what you’re talking about. For some people, you clearly have offered enough. They say so. For other people, in this case represented by me, you have not. I can point to the morass of negatives and to the lack of clear description as reason for my confusion. My attention couldn’t stay absorbed in your plot. It had to step outside the narrative frame and try to wade through the details to reason its way through action. My time was spent inside my head, and not in the world you were trying to construct for me during that portion of the poem. I would have needed to know, for example, that your head was on your desk for the reference to make sense. I still would have been — as it were — in the dark because you were talking about the teacher calling on the speaker while the speaker apparently had her arms over her ears. This would have made things difficult for the teacher, necessitating her to raise her voice. My comments about this whole section being unclear still apply. I couldn’t be absorbed in it while trying to untangle it at the same time. As I mentioned earlier, these tasks require conflicting locations for me. Ideally, you need to revise so that I remain within the world of the poem. If I have to drop out to problem solve, the odds are that there will be other readers who will need to do the same thing at these places. The good of the poem mandates that readers shouldn’t have to do this; and the good of the poet mandates that she understand the whys and wherefores of at least some of the places that this happens to readers who are interested in reading her work. The lonely reality of being a poet means that this all too frequently feels like a comedown. It does to me when this happens, as it does all too frequently. As at least a minor antidote to that, I’d like to be clear that there are things about this draft that I envy, some of which I mentioned in my prior posting on this piece. It’s a very talented piece of work. I can only hope that you keep working on this one, and that you keep on encouraging the flow of new work as well. all my best, Bob Kaven |
||
|
Marchmadness Member Rara Avis
since 2007-09-16
Posts 9271So. El Monte, California |
The thing that makes you such a good poet, Karen, is the fact that you wade right in there and deliver from the heart. As a fellow poet (Who actually writes poetry) I would just like to say, "Please keep doing it just the way you do it." Ida |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Perhaps Ida is suggesting I don't actually write poetry? It sounded that way. Was that what you were suggesting, Ida? I believe I have made my fondness for serenity in general and this poem in particular clear. If you don't find my feedback useful, I'm very sorry, but Serenity did ask for constructive feedback. I've offered that, respect, and admiration. Sincerely, Bob Kaven |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
(((Bob))) *giggling* And my gratitude to Ida, both of you are incredibly dear to me. I do encourage critique, and I don't feel attacked. In fact, I'm flattered by the attention. I will think about the centering thing, and confess that I also have a pet peeve. When poetry is lined up to the left, and every line is capitalized? That distracts me. I'm always looking for acrostics when that happens. So happy hugs, and Bob, I trust that you, too, have held on to your sense of humor and won't be upset that I centered my reply. I gotta be ME...  I'll think about your suggestions and perhaps utilize your advice in the future on another poem. This one? *shrug* No matter how many poems the count in this forum, I've really only written a handful. Everything else IS a re-write. Ciao for now. |
||
|
ebonygirl Member Elite
since 2011-07-14
Posts 2000California U.S.A |
You've written a heartfelt piece of life as a child. I'm so sorry you had that experience. Karma ... It's all I can say ...karma. |
||
|
ebonygirl Member Elite
since 2011-07-14
Posts 2000California U.S.A |
Just to clarify, those that were insensitive will reap what they sow. Always admire your writing. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Centered the reply in prose — no problem. I use a different lens. About capitalized left-justified lines, I try to ignore the existence of acrostics. If I felt I had to look for them every time, i'd have the heebie jeebies. Do you think most of your readers have the same reaction? I wrote poems with capitalized left-justified lines for about 30 years. Poets battle back and forth, capitalize, don't capitalize. It's an active discussion back and forth, and poetry loses as a result. It takes away from the public's sense of what the norms are. Readers are easily thrown and confused. Some of them don't even recognize a poem unless it rhymes. It doesn't matter that the rhymes may be clumsy, foolish, clunky or poorly done. With the rhymes, it's poetry; without the rhymes, it isn't. It's taken almost a hundred years for the public to recognize that you don't have to rhyme to have a poem. Even then, half of them aren't convinced. For prose, center justification is probably only idiosyncratic, though it'd be an unusual editor who'd allow it to stand in a book, and a very unusual editor indeed who'd allow it to stand in a magazine. But if you aren't thinking publication, it's probably not all that much a prose issue. As for left justification of poems, I said what I had to say. You can use the information or you can't. If you can't, repeating it won't make it seem any more worth your while to listen to. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I don't even assume I HAVE readers, much less think about, cater to, or otherwise curve the pitch of my poems to them. Your tone became cold in that last reply, and I have been welcoming to your suggestions, and I thought I did so with a good nature. I shall adjust my critique message. The only thing left puzzling me is if there is something else bothering you? I mean, we can always talk about it, but there's a tone here I don't appreciate now. (Swing away, Ida.) How unfortunate...and why, out of all the little threads in open forum, did you have to displace your unhappiness in mine, Bob? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Oh. I think this means you hurt my feelings. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I neglected to thank Ms. e. Thank you, lovie. I got a little distracted, but I do so appreciate your time and support. |
||
|
Marchmadness Member Rara Avis
since 2007-09-16
Posts 9271So. El Monte, California |
I usually say what I mean and seldom stutter. Ida |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And I admire that. I wish I saw things as clearly--and I consider me blessed, no b.s., BLESSED, to have friends like you. Thank you. |
||
|
ethome Member Patricius
since 2000-05-14
Posts 11858New Brunswick Canada |
Whew, I'm so glad I just write songs and don't know the in depth structures of poetry. Sometimes it's just so pleasant to be a happy ol dumb guy....... There ain't no preefessionals here on this forum I hope.....If there is...... I'M SCARED! I view a critic like a fire hydrant views a dog..... This is Ricky Ricardo signing off I Love You Lucy!!! true love never looks after it's own interests |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I've got a bonga drum. (TwO, in fact.)  Thanks for wading through the mess (just a plumbing problem) and for recognizing there's a home, here, afterall. |
||
|
ethome Member Patricius
since 2000-05-14
Posts 11858New Brunswick Canada |
OK get those bongas out cause I'm gonna need ya. I need a back beat cause I got the guitar all tuned up. Ready to roll on this ol fav from down your way!!!! Deep down in Louisiana close to New Orleans Way back up in the woods among the evergreens There stood a log cabin made of earth and wood Where lived a country boy named Johnny B. Goode Who never ever learned to read or write so well But he could play the guitar just like a ringin' a bell Chorus: Go, go, go Johnny go go go Johnny go go go Johnny go go go Johnny go go Johnny B. Goode He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack Or sit beneath the tree by the railroad track Oh an engineer could see him sitting in the shade Strummin' to the rhythm that the drivers made People passing by they would stop and say Oh my but that little country boy could play Chorus His mother told him "some day you will be a man" And you will be the leader of a big old band Many people coming from miles around And hear you play your music till the sun go down Maybe someday your name gonna be in lights Sayin' 'Johnny B. Goode tonight' Oh, you did good!! I could hear it all the way up here in the hill of New Brunswick.. Keep rockin and don't ever change cause youse too good the way you are. Eric Berry - Chuck's white brother.... He he different mothers.....But you knew that. Hey I know how you feel. I've felt that way too many times just listen.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hrwJvdPtwI true love never looks after it's own interests |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Being told I don't want to convince you to left-justify hurts your feelings? I said what I had to say on the matter, and if that wasn't convincing enough, I had and have no need or wish to follow up. It was a reasonable, honest and insufficient case. Repeating it won't change it. Trying a different tack suggests that I have have some need to convince you. Your poem, your choice, your responsibility, and that's the way it should be If being told that I admire the draft is upsetting, feel free to upset me that way any day. If you feel the critique wasn't constructive, it'd be useful for me to know where. I want my critiques to be useful, and if this one wasn't useful, knowing how, where and why will help me decide whether I want to say the same sorts of things the same way again. It won't help you, but it might help me help somebody else. It might be worth answering for you, it might not. If you want to look at my poetry, there are probably a couple of old things kicking around here someplace. Frankly, I think my comments ought to speak for themselves, but I did post a couple of poems a few years back. If you want more finished stuff, google my name. They have some of my poems listed, and you can probably find one or two that you can access. It's what I would have done, before making any insinuations. Please make a point of keeping the "Except for Bob" sign up on the criticism requests, Karen. In the unlikely event of your changing your mind, I'll need the reminder. Sincerely, Bob Kaven [This message has been edited by Bob K (05-11-2012 11:34 AM).] |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Your TONE hurts my feelings Bob. And I never questioned your ability to write poetry. (Read it all again--not once did I question you, your writing history, or your ability of comprehension.) But the fact that you are confused on that point brings up a few questions on that point NOW. I took your critique with good nature and welcomed it. On the other hand, your lack of humor once it became apparent that I was not going to re-write the poem was a little bit obnoxious. Now, I just posted another poem, left-justified, but apparently you don't really care. You just want to argue. I'm going to ask this thread be closed or deleted if you don't desist your harassment. Because that is what I feel this has become. Once again--YOU ARE CONFUSED. I did not question your writing. Got it? |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Ida did, Karen. And you didn't say anything about it. What part of "except for Bob" suggests that anything you just said makes any sense? What makes you think that you are the only person with feelings? And where did you see me make any request or demand for revisions? I told you where you lost me and why. If you tell me you're grateful for the feedback, that doesn't jibe for allowing somebody else to make nasty cracks without a quiet word. And why should I comment on anything else you write when you try to bully me this way? Do you think you have a monopoly on feelings and bad childhoods? Do you think that allows you to bad mouth me then ask for comment in the next breath? Why? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
It was a joke, Bob. I have amended my critique message. And yes, Ida did. Thank you for clarifying the understood, unstated "you"--a little bit sloppy for someone defending an otherwise helpful critique, which should have been an enjoyable exchange. But I do suggest that since you apparently do not like my personality? Just leave me alone. Really. And I'd like to thank Ida for encouraging me to type without a stutter. Now guess what little girl just raised her head off of the desk? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"Do you think you have a monopoly on feelings and bad childhoods? Do you think that allows you to bad mouth me then ask for comment in the next breath? Why?" Just in case you're going to be quick to edit the derogatory tone out of your reply again. Try to lighten up a little, Bob. I wasn't crying about my childhood, I wrote a poem. But you apparently had some rough times, and I'm here to encourage you to work through that. Displacement isn't the answer. Have a good day. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
quote: The poem stands on its own; your assumptions about me, don’t. I have declined to comment about any other of your poems. Isolating a guy, running down his work product and trying to pass it off as a joke in front of an audience is only a joke in very limited circles. These circles have never been fun for me; and I don’t like what they do to other people, either, including the protagonist in your poem. Running a guy down this way in public while praising his work product and effort in private is too difficult a project for my limited personal elasticity to tolerate, especially while continuing to offer detailed and supportive feedback. Fortunately, it appears you feel you have no need for it, so there should be no problem for you at all. I find you as a person witty, entertaining and very talented. But I don’t enjoy being ganged up on or bullied any more than the protagonist in your poem did, and unlike her, I have the power to decline such treatment. quote: I have not tried to assume a therapeutic role with you. Real psychotherapy is contractual, and depends on that contract for any effect it has. You should be aware that I can make my own arrangements for any psychotherapy I need. Should I decide, at some future date, to go back into analysis, however, I’ll be certain to let my analyst know of your recommendations and concerns. She would doubtless agree that displacement isn’t the answer, though she might have some curiosity as to what the question might have been. She might remind me that “The purpose of analysis is to turn neurotic suffering into ordinary unhappiness.” Even though she’s Jungian, I always thought she liked that comment by Freud. The rest of the day should be fairly good. Elaine and I are heading East again for a few days, so I have errands to do. I’m putting together my book again for another application for a rejection slip, and I’ trying to put together a manuscript for a magazine. Poetry Magazine is working on a special rejection slip just for me as I write this, and I can scarcely wait. If they don’t reject me regularly, they get very upset. It puts them off their feed. I’ll be collecting rejection slips at other magazines as well. Thank you for wishing me good day. Sincerely, Bob Kaven |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
If no moderator will come to my aid, I respectfully request that this poem be deleted. |
||
|
ethome Member Patricius
since 2000-05-14
Posts 11858New Brunswick Canada |
Bob You're obviously a very smart man. But when she asks you to leave her alone why don't you honour her request. I don't usually butt in however, she has requested you leave her alone. When in doubt do the kind thing and show her the honour she deserves as a long time member here. Many thanks Eric true love never looks after it's own interests |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
It's kind of a mess now, but ty Eric. What you all didn't see was that I had written Bob a couple of times, thanking him. So...? I have no idea what's going on with this but I've lost my taste for it. This discussion is a poor example of critique, and does Passions a disservice by remaining posted. |
||
|
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
On the contrary, Karen, I think it serves very well as an indicator of what we don't need in the forums. I don't care for dirt in the house any more than most, but I've also never seen any good reason to sweep the dirt beneath a rug. Bob, I've revoked your posting privileges for all the forums. I had hoped being evicted from the Alley would be enough, but apparently not. I'm sure you're not really a bad guy, but you seem to have very poor judgment when posting on this particular site. We've been tiptoeing around that poor judgment, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, for too many years. Enough is enough. Good luck elsewhere. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm not happy with the outcome of this, and to prove my sincerity about that I am voluntarily taking a sabbatical from Pip for a while. I own my part in this-by joking a bit much-- which I'm sure Bob could have taken as mockery. I'd had no idea of his troubles in the Alley, and now that I know that part I can see how he might have felt I was laughing AT him, not with. To Bob and friends of BobK, please try to understand that once I felt bullied, I felt a responsibility to defend myself--especially considering the context of the poem. My apologies to you all for the melodrama. *peace* |
||
|
ethome Member Patricius
since 2000-05-14
Posts 11858New Brunswick Canada |
Karen! Don't isolate yourself from us, we don't deserve it. Ron's right there are other issues and now because you have such a big heart you're making yourself responsible and you're definitely not. I know it's emotionally hard but you're selling yourself short and despite what you think because Ron banned Bob you're not to blame. When you posted "Class Dismissed" you had no idea Bob was going to do an in depth critique. Not your fault sweetheart, don't feel so bad and leave us. We don't deserve it. Eric true love never looks after it's own interests |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I just need to think, sweetheart. I'll be here reading, I'm sure. But I need to think about the way I use humor, quite often inappropriately. (This is about me, and it's FOR me, okay?) You are all too lovely to leave. My love and gratitude to you all. And really, I'll be around. I'm not second-guessing Ron's decision, either. I think he kinda knows what he's doing by now. *chuckle* |
||
|
Marchmadness Member Rara Avis
since 2007-09-16
Posts 9271So. El Monte, California |
Besides your lovely poetry, I truly enjoy your unique sense of humor. I would hate to see it change. Just saying... Ida |
||
|
Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Um... Karen, just my two cents. Don't go trying to change who you ARE. I love the Karen with the unending satirical humor and definately unique perspectives. Not sure I could ever appreciate a more politically correct version of you. We all feel challenged and put the gloves on occasionally... and sometimes a bit prematurely, but I did not think it the case here. ((Hugs)) to you, dear. Michael Besides, you still owe me a duet! :P |
||
|
JamesMichael Member Empyrean
since 1999-11-16
Posts 33336Kapolei, Hawaii, USA |
Nice flow of thoughts...James |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"decoupage" totally belongs to My Yeti, the great furry heart breakie--wranx. (broke my vow to give him credit) Wannna go bowling? lmao |
||
|
Startime1955 Senior Member
since 2012-04-22
Posts 1072Alberta, Canada |
I agree with the others...we need your unique talent and beautiful words...*HUGS* *may our dreams ever be magical* |
||
|
OwlSA Member Rara Avis
since 2005-11-07
Posts 9347Durban, South Africa |
I am breaking my leave from Pip to say this, Karen, because I don't know whether you got my email - perhaps you no longer use the email address I sent it to? - but I just need to add my tuppence-ha'pennyworth. Please do NOT have this poem deleted, nor take one nano-iota of blame for any of this. Please do NOT change who you are or how you write, post, reply or delight us with your totally innocent humour, intelligence and poetic talent, and most of all, please do NOT take even a short temporary absence from Pip. You are needed here and we need you to be no more and no less than exactly who Karen is. Your readers can see objectively how this played out and I am sure I speak for all (except one banned ex-reader, lol) when I say that we can all see that you had absolutely NO fault in this at all. My tongue is hurting from biting it to prevent me saying what I think of Bob! Owl |
||
|
Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
I was teased immensely. Funny how so many years later you can be still teased, just your better at expressing emotions after the pain and after so many years Juju -Juju |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm around. I don't have a desire to demonize Bob--I'm still kind of shocked that it turned badly so quickly between us. I want you all to know how much I appreciate you, and I AM open to critique, but in this case, the critique didn't seem to end. I have exhibited bad behavior myself, and I know the reasons why (various illnesses, medicines, self-medicating, etc.) so I won't presume to know what is going on with Bob. For all I know he's having a hard time with something, so I'll try to not judge. I'm finally receiving the medical help that I need, so please don't think my silence is all about this one incident. I am taking care of personal business as well, and this time I'm determined to stick with the program. This is a bit more information than you all needed, and there are others here who need more prayers and sympathy than I, so...on that note, I'd like to just say thank you, especially Ron, and not to worry. I used to just post a poem without working on it much. I'd already worked on this one until I considered it done and had no intention of re-writing it. As Ellen says, "be kind to one another"--I'm trying to learn from my mishaps and experiences and I'm willing to assume that Bob is doing the same. And if he is not, I can't control that either. Again, my love, and my compassion to all who are going through hard times during these particularly hard times throughout the world. *peace* |
||
|
miscellanea Member Elite
since 2004-06-24
Posts 4060OH |
Serenity, Beautifully conveyed. Sometimes "they know not what they do" isn't enough... It is always good to read your poetry. Miscellanea |
||
Ringo 
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
You always amaze me at the skill and relative ease you put your words together.... This is another amazing piece. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE |
||
|
MICHELMAS Member
since 2012-02-15
Posts 305Lancashire England |
'enjoyed' the emotion in this poem.I believe ,well for me, poetry is simply the expressing of feelings, others may see hidden meaning in the words, or relate to the words in their own personal way. Sometimes the critique can be far too heavy. PS mine tend to rhyme but does that matter.regards Michael |
||
|
suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
The only sonnet I ever attempted (or at least - the only one I finished *G*) was my go at trying to put this kind of situation in words. I blamed the form for my failure (it's always a good scapegoat *G*) but the fact is... I simply left out the emotion. You didn't... you embraced it and gave it voice... and this is hard-hitting brilliance. |
||
|
luminosity Senior Member
since 2005-11-18
Posts 813 |
now I see why this has so many replies...it deserves it...you deserved standing applause....powerful write |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
