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Passions in Poetry

love??

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Falling rain
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0 posted 02-17-2008 08:37 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Why is it so easy to fall in love?? im curious and i want to know.

~Zach~

"Nice guys finish last"

TomMark
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1 posted 02-17-2008 09:41 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Why do you say that it is easy? when it seems so very hard, in general?

so do you want to tell me what kind of love that you were talking about?

Falling rain
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2 posted 02-17-2008 10:30 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

its easy to fall for someone thats what i mean. Like its easy to like someone but then when you find out that they dont like you back. Would you stay in love with them or would you just snap out of the trance of love that quick? and if you snap out that quickly... did ever really love that person at all?? (these questions always keep me thinking lol)What do you think Tom?

~Zach~

"Nice guys finish last"

TomMark
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3 posted 02-17-2008 11:03 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

I think one shall try to learn the need of oneself.
If one needs a caring love. Then you fall on every girls who passes you a soda. A piece of  napkin  can make you to pour all your heart out and thinking of grandchildren. This happens, you  know.

If one needs to be needed then every crying girls will win your heart and a pitiful lying can just snatch your heart away.

If you need to be controlled by strong figure then every arrogant girl will have a chain on you.

If you need controlling then all weak minded girl will under your whip.

Do you call those relationship love?

If one has a very good parenting, then, the only thing one need to pay attention is good characters.

My thought

  

butterflyluv
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4 posted 02-17-2008 11:09 PM       View Profile for butterflyluv   Email butterflyluv   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for butterflyluv

I have learned that it is easy to fall in love once you find that special someone, but it takes the hard work of the two to keep that love alive. People are always looking for that PERFECT person but nobody is perfect and there will always be something about someone that is disliked but that is where the loving part of it all comes in. You have to accept that person for who and what they are if you truly love them. Love is very hard to keep alive but it can be done. Keep in mind as well that if you look for a mate in a negative environment, then the results of it all will be negative as well.
Falling rain
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5 posted 02-18-2008 09:46 AM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

hmm that makes alot of sence. i'll take that into consideration. thanks tom that helps alot. buterflyluv you helped me alot too. i can see that im like the youngest in this convosation and like your all adults so its nice to talk to older athorities and gets some advise. thanks you guys!!

~Zach~

"Nice guys finish last"

TomMark
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6 posted 02-18-2008 10:27 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Zach, just remember, if you are hurt, everyone who loves you hurt. If you are  happy, then everyone will be happy.

A broken relationship, young or old, will hurt a lot of people..from grandparents to grandchildren and many related, not mention yourself the ground zero. So, make decision carefully.    
Falling rain
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7 posted 02-18-2008 02:29 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

will do Tom!

~Zach~

"Nice guys finish last"

Bob K
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8 posted 02-18-2008 04:18 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Falling Rain,

          It's easy to fall in love because when you're young you always fall in love with what's pretty much the same sort of person—or two or three variations on the same person—over and over.  You find yourself on one or the other end of the same sort of relationship over and over.  People who have characteristics that are close to the ones that interest you in the first place attract your attention.  The same in the other direction.

     The "enchanted" part of being in love is while the confusion is total and you feel, This is the person I've always wanted and have been waiting for my entire life.
The test of the relationship is the ability of each person to be able to love and enjoy the actual real person who's underneath that original enchanted fantasy of total fulfillment.  Is the actual person, who snores and growls at you occasionally and who doesn't  actually think you're perfect all the time, but who loves you as well, going to be enough for your?  And you for her?

     Mostly, no.  You're no fool, and neither is she.  If your disappointment isn't too terrible, you might keep a friendship out of it, if you haven't treated each other too badly.  It's never a good idea to treat people you love now or ever have loved badly.  Sometimes a friendship's impossible.

     Unlike TomMark, I think that people seek relationships whether they feel complete in themselves or not.  It's always nice to feel complete in yourself, but that's a life-long task whether you're in a relationship or not.  I think folks look for relationships because we work better with partners.  It's fine to come home from work each day and eat dinner, read a book, write, watch tv and go to bed.  I did it for years and years as an adult, sometimes in a relationship, sometimes not.

     Once I got married, I started going to the theater occasionally, started talking about the theater with my wife, got interested in some of the things she was interested  in, and vice versa and we talk about them and it's a shared pleasure.  It's part of what we build together.
I wouldn't have known to do those things alone.  I guess that's why, really.

     I don't want to be over-intimate with you, Falling rain, but I did want to give you the best answer I thought I could.  I hope it helps.  BobK.
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9 posted 02-18-2008 04:56 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

quote:
Unlike TomMark, I think that people seek relationships whether they feel complete in themselves or not


I did not say that one had to feel complete before they started seeking a relationship. I said that one needed to know one self's need so one would have a better judgment of one's own feelings. Such as why one falls again and again and being rejected again and again.

A boy from a broken family and has not good relationships with step-relations is so very easy to be friend with people or girls in the same situation because they have better understanding of each other in certain aspect of life. But if their friendship is based on bad mouthing-parents then their relationship later would not work.

And for dating, of course, seeking those characters : kind, kind, kind, kind, honest, smart, and beautiful.

Kind...has to be kind in general to everybody.
smart...very clear on priority. always put you first.
  
Falling rain
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10 posted 02-18-2008 08:43 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

"I think that people seek relationships whether they feel complete in themselves or not"

hmm that quote helps and it leaves me with a question.
And i will admit i do not feel complete with myself. Soo where do you start looking for yourself? I mean like i know what i like. im very optimistic and i'll try almost anything. but where would you start looking?? (i mean that mediforicly not literetly lol)

~Zach~

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11 posted 02-18-2008 09:12 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

quote:
i will admit i do not feel complete with myself

Tell me how imperfect you are. make a list to see how you are incomplete.
And to be honest, if you are before 22, do forget about the girl thing. It is a burden. Study hard and go traveling to see the world.
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12 posted 02-19-2008 12:55 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Falling Rain,

          When I used to study aikido, a very interesting Japanese martial art, I was puzzled why every time we entered the practice room we bowed twice.  It was the custom.  I asked the teacher.  I won't try to duplicate his English, but what he said was, "We bow to the altar at the front of the dojo to show respect for the O-sensei, who originated our art.  Then we bow to the mat that keeps us from breaking our backs.

     I didn't study aikido very long, a year, perhaps two.  I hurt my back.  Not paying enough attention, of course.  I always seem to learn things the hard way.

     We may get to the point where we tell ourselves that we are complete in ourselves.  It's an illusion.  If you don't make sure you bow to the mat every single time with proper deference, which includes taking proper care of it and those people who will always stand in for it the rest of your life, you will break your back.  The rugged individualist in the american myth depends on others to make his clothes, grow his food, educate his children, generate his electricity, produce his cars, build his house and the stores he shops in, and the goods he buys there.

     We pay homage to our independence because it is worthy and the pursuit of it is a worthy goal.

     Knowing who you are is a whole different question.  Perhaps you can find a copy of a book by Alan Watts called simply enough THE BOOK on the prohibition against knowing who you are.  It's one of the easiest reads
I've ever come across and it's a great introduction to exactly that question.  It's probably still in print someplace.  If you read it, let me know what you think.
BobK.

     And Dear TomMark, forgive me please for misreading you.  I've been using your information about how to use the quotes in this program and I feel much more agile and much less dorky for it.  I owe it to you.  Thanks.  Bob.
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13 posted 02-19-2008 01:28 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Bob K, I think that to bow to the mat is a very good ritual and it makes a good point on how people treats what is serving them. Does this hint that why some doormats ran away?   
Falling rain
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14 posted 02-19-2008 08:35 AM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

BobK your metiphore seemed really good but i dont think i understood it all please explain. (im sorry im doing this, making you explain and all, but im nieve and not that bright when it comes to metiphores) So can you please explain a little bit...

~Zach~

Ron
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15 posted 02-19-2008 10:31 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The rugged individualist in the american myth depends on others to make his clothes, grow his food, educate his children, generate his electricity, produce his cars, build his house and the stores he shops in, and the goods he buys there.

That's one way to look at it, Bob. I prefer to remember that the clothiers, farmers, teachers, utilities, manufacturers, carpenters, and entrepreneurs all depend on me to buy their goods.

quote:
I hurt my back.

In a similar vein, Bob, I have to wonder why you would bow to the mat for protecting your back and yet blame yourself when it got hurt?

This is, perhaps, one of those half empty, half full things. Personally, I don't think you give yourself -- or us -- enough credit.
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16 posted 02-19-2008 11:45 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Bob k probably did not bow it with honesty or he put Blind Trust to that non-intelligent mat.  
I wish you back healed well. Dear Bob K.

Assuming (that the mat shall protect me always) might be one of the reason that one falls easily. If you clearly see that other one is a big bad wolf then you would not fall for that, right, Falling Rain?
TomMark
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17 posted 02-19-2008 02:17 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

quote:
The rugged individualist in the american myth depends on others to make his clothes, grow his food, educate his children, generate his electricity, produce his cars, build his house and the stores he shops in, and the goods he buys there.

I read as that we were so incomplete today...look how we have depended upon others....we can't live without others. So do not pursuit complete...it does not exist today.
SO as to related to "fall again, again", as saying...do whatever you want because you can not avoid to be fall again and again due to incompleteness.

quote:
That's one way to look at it, Bob. I prefer to remember that the clothiers, farmers, teachers, utilities, manufacturers, carpenters, and entrepreneurs all depend on me to buy their goods.

As to say that there is a completeness and it is me(the consumers) made the whole industry complete.
As related to the "falls again, and again'? You must fall because other depends upon your love to become complete.  

Above are obvious reasons for men fall and fall again....Either you have to or you must to.         then in the case of Falling Rain, he felt many times rejection when he fell. Something is not right here.

[This message has been edited by TomMark (02-19-2008 11:55 PM).]

Falling rain
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18 posted 02-19-2008 04:37 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

i really didnt feel completely rejected Tom but something liked being used or something like that. And now i understand your metiphore BobK.
"You bow to the mat to show your respect to the mat, and yet when you fall on it, it hurts"
So by this im thinking the mat is the girl and i must show respect for her but sometimes i might get hurt in the act. like either falling apon it (falling for her and getting rejected). But you just got to get up, recover yourself, and still bow to the mat again right?

Am i understanding this right??  

~Zach~

TomMark
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19 posted 02-19-2008 09:34 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Zach, you would rather get rejected than to get used. To be used by other, first you show the problem of your judgment. Second, you nurture other's selfishness which is even worse.
My thought.  

[This message has been edited by TomMark (02-19-2008 10:19 PM).]

Falling rain
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20 posted 02-19-2008 10:20 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

hmm interesting thought. i will sleep on this thought...  

~Zach~

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21 posted 02-19-2008 11:35 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



I wish for time to reply to everyone as fully as you all deserve and as fully as I'm able.

     Ron, why would I disagree with you? Both conditions apply.  You're good to point out my omission.  I was trying to apply a corrective to the current idealization of the rugged individualist, not deny it a place.

     Falling rain, if things go wrong, it's helpful to think that each of you contributed a good fifty percent.  If you can actually ask and get a good answer, it's  really useful to find out what the other person thinks you did wrong.  Don't try to defend yourself or say you didn't do it, even if you didn't do it.  You're not there to win a fight, you're there to prevent the next one with somebody else.  Try to see it from their point of view.  Anyway, that's it for now.  This is more than anybody's going to read.  

     I hurt my back not because of the mat, which was doing its job perfectly well being a mat, but because I was not paying respectful attention to myself as well and exceeded my own capabilities at the time.  I also, I suspect, probably disrespected the mat by expecting it to do more than it was capable of doing.  I need to put air in my tires, which will show respect for my car and the people who built it, and will probably help me keep out of an accident as well.  It's a lesson I haven't finished learning.  I need to respect the rules of this forum.  I work on that one as well.  I need to be forthright and honest or my own metaphysical or psychological tires go flat.

     Yes I still have a bad back.  As you can deduce, I have darn well earned it the hard way, and only by paying attention to the altar and the mat and their current incarnations keeps things from getting worse.  Sometimes they get better, when I'm careful.

     TomMark, I love talking with you. I don't know people who control their feelings.  Feelings are like a windstorm.
You can talk back to them, and sometimes that helps, because it's a way of actively building an additional point of view that's as rational or as plausible as the feeling is.  That's why friends are a help, too.  Or you can watch them go by and pin tails on them with little tags, so you'll know what your nefarious little or big brain is doing.  You can pay attention to your breathing or you can pay attention to the tasks you need to be accomplishing.  There are all sorts of ways of dealing with them, but suppressing them is one I've never seen work.

     I've never seen a person control the kind of person they fall in love with, either, no matter how terrific their parents have been.  You'd think it would be possible.  You'd hope it was possible, but in practice, mostly it doesn't happen that way.

     I could tell you TomMark, only fall in love with folks that won't leave you and who will love you back as much as I think you deserve; which is a lot.  Sounds like great advice, doesn't it?  Is it possible other people may have given you advice remotely like that in the past?

     People have things they are trying to work out when they fall in love.  They have business to deal with with their lovers that has to do with how they think other people are supposed to be treated and how other people are supposed to treat them, and they will selectively pick out people who have traits like that or will act in such a way as to bring those traits out in the other person or they will distort what they see from the other person to fit the model they have in their head.

     It is enormously difficult to actually see and hear what is going on in a conversation between two people in a room if you are not one of them, and almost impossible if you are.  It's a really big help if you have a truly wacky sense of humor that you're able to allow other people to understand and share.
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22 posted 02-20-2008 12:11 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

quote:
TomMark, I love talking with you. I don't know people who control their feelings.  Feelings are like a windstorm.

where did i say that people should control their feelings? Quote me. You know how to use quote     . Of course people can control their feelings.
quote:
You can talk back to them, and sometimes that helps, because it's a way of actively building an additional point of view that's as rational or as plausible as the feeling is.  That's why friends are a help, too.

I don't talk back to them. I lecture them loud and clear .  
quote:
I've never seen a person control the kind of person they fall in love with,

Do you want examples? (many)I think that when people falls the jealousy rises in the same weight.
quote:
I could tell you TomMark, only fall in love with folks that won't leave you and who will love you back as much as I think you deserve; which is a lot.  Sounds like great advice, doesn't it?  Is it possible other people may have given you advice remotely like that in the past?

If feelings is uncontrollable, how can we decide to whom we shall fall and whom we shouldn't? I absolutely hate "fall in love".

quote:
People have things they are trying to work out when they fall in love.

I don't know about this. I think that there is nothing in their mind. But I'd rather Ron give your more explanation on this if he wants. I have not much credit on this.   Do you mean writing love poems?  
quote:
They have business to deal with with their lovers

Really? I have never heard this!!!

quote:
Falling rain, if things go wrong, it's helpful to think that each of you contributed a good fifty percent.

I don't think that one shall think like this. One doesn't need to take other's responisbility.
(one can ask oneself if he did anything wrong)

quote:
it's  really useful to find out what the other person thinks you did wrong.

I don't think so because everyone will say "it is all your fault."


[This message has been edited by TomMark (02-20-2008 12:49 AM).]

Falling rain
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23 posted 02-20-2008 08:27 AM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Thats very true Tom. People always say its my fault (when i was in a relationship) and i that i mess up. But i did no such thing (or atleast none that i know of). And i know i shouldnt blame myself cuz i know i didnt do anything wrong. I just guess that she lost intrest in me. I see no problem in this cuz she broke up with me and i had alot more offer and she'll miss out on that. so her loss. thanks for your advise guys

~Zach~

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24 posted 02-20-2008 02:46 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

quote:
People always say its my fault (when i was in a relationship) and i that i mess up. But i did no such thing (or atleast none that i know of).

How interesting. One does not need other to tell if one has done good or not. One even as a little child knows how one has behaved.

One of my friend, a German, had a girl friend in his town but when he went to Paris, he danced with another girl. And when he went back to his town he told his girl friend all about that Paris girl. His girl friend dumped him. He couldn't understand even when he told me the story 20 years later. If I could laugh sky off at him. Was it his fault?

Another friend, who took off early from work or take days off when he was busy to entertain his girl friend. He has a house in Del Mar (close to San Diego). On wedding day, all family members were flying in, the to-be-bride did not show up. The civil service was already done then.
Whose fault?
Weeks later he took whole day talked to me. He tried to find where went wrong in the their dating. I could only say that if she asked him to give up works to go movie with her, she was a selfish person. What do you expect from a selfish person?

 
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