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Is it cheating?
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Is it cheating? |
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Dark Kisses Member
since 2001-06-24
Posts 364Flat lands of Kansas 
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Okay here i go.... My bf is addicted to internet porn!!! (GRRR) It is so bad, he even goes on Personal Sites, just to look at pics (yeah right!!) This makes me feel VERY insecure! I have talked to him about it and he just doesnt understand! |
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Capricious Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 89California, USA |
I don't think anyone has enough information from this post to answer your question. In fact, even if you gave us the low-down, it would be skewed from your point of view, so no meaningful observations or advice could be derived from it. I'm sure you'll get lots of sympathy, however.  |
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Michelle_loves_Mike
since 2003-12-20
Posts 1189Pennsylvania |
I beg to differ cap,,,,i have plenty of info to draw from, my soon to be ex-husband started with the online porn, then the sites, "just to see whats there", now,,he is with the person he met on line, and they just had a son, I do wish them the best. If it makes you feel that uncomfortable Dark, try your best to get that point accross to your b/f, even ask how he'd feel if you were cruising the stud sights, for the pics of course. Porn has its place,be it online, movies, books, etc., but, when it becomes an addiction, as with all addictions, help is needed to overcome it. And,,just to be fair, I did meet my b/f Mike online,,lol,so,,not all is bad, least in my world. No one really cares,,why should I? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Blaming pornography for breaking up a relationship is like blaming a gun for shooting somebody. It's what you do with it that matters, not that it exists. That goes for everything, from guns to pornography, to hanging out in bars, with your friends, having freindships with members of the opposite sex, to online friendships. If you want to find the real problem, look at the roots, not the leaves. egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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Michelle_loves_Mike
since 2003-12-20
Posts 1189Pennsylvania |
I wasn't blamimg porn for breaking my relationship up,,,if anything,,I thank it,,lol,,,,my point was,,she isn't alone in feeling the way she feels, and she needs to get the way it makes her feel across to him,,altho,,the gun thing might help,,rofl No one really cares,,why should I? |
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Greeneyes 
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
quote: agreeing with Christopher here..... ~~*~~ |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
If he has any habits that you can't cope with now, then leave him, now. I don't care if it's porn view or championship wrestling. *shudder* (No offense intended to all the porn fans out there by the comparison.)  |
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Capricious Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 89California, USA |
What about naked championship wrestling?  And Michelle, your ex-husband is not her boyfriend (at least, I hope not). Not all people that drink are alcoholics. The truth is we know nothing about the situation, and other than blanket statements like Serenity's, our advice could have very little relevance to it at all. |
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littlewing Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655New York |
agreeing with Christopher and Karen here, BUT (there is always a but) if it bothers you, you have to DO something about it or none of this will work. You have to be honest with each other and in that, you may find a medium. Be true to yourself or later on you will just resent it and him. |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
your question is, is it cheating? I would have to hope not...but if he likes it better than being with you, I would dump him....if it gets his motor running then he comes to you...then I don't see a problem. But yes, I do agree with Kissy Face and Karen is sooooo right. I hope it works out for you. |
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A Romantic Heart Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-03
Posts 5496Forever In Your Heart |
Well let me just say...I understand what you are going through..and yes it is CHEATING.. http://www.drphil.com/advice/advice.jhtml?contentId=090302_relationships_internetporn.xml§ion=Relationships/Sex&subsection=Infidelity Is Internet Porn Cheating? Internet pornography is a growing trend that has many people worried about their relationships. Is it cheating? And is it a "normal guy thing"? Here's what Dr. Phil believes: It is not OK behavior. It is a perverse and ridiculous intrusion into your relationship. It is an insult, it is disloyal and it is cheating. Consider how it makes your partner feel. If it makes your partner feel ugly, hurt, deceived, lied to or inadequate, then it needs to stop. If it is eroding your relationship, it's gone too far. Pornography isn't real, it's a fantasy. It's makeup, beauty lenses, hair extensions, camera angles, lighting and silicone! It's also somebody's daughter who has taken a really, really wrong turn. She's demeaning herself, debasing herself, humiliating herself and she's being exploited by people who are funded by you. It is a sick, demented, twisted world. It's not healthy, it's not natural and it's not normal. Viewing Internet pornography or engaging in cybersex is a short step to taking cheating to the next level. You need to tell your partner that viewing pornography is absolutely, unequivocally unacceptable in your relationship. Draw a line: Your partner needs to choose between the pornography or the relationship. Ask yourself or your partner: Would you do it with your partner standing right there? Are you turning outside of your relationship to meet a need that should be met within the relationship? You can't change what you don't acknowledge, so find out if you or your partner have a problem. Do you justify the behavior by saying, "It's harmless," "Everyone does it," or "It's just the Internet"? Does it intrude on your relationship? Which is more important: pornography or your relationship?. Dr. Phil from the Oprah show, who now has his own show, has done a many of shows in regards to this very subject and he is qualified to do say...he says it is cheating. These were his words to the man..."Would You Look at it if you knew your spouse or other was standing over your shoulders"....no...so if you know shouldn't be viewing it and that your wife disagrees and it makes her very uncomfortable, then it is cheating, it is wrong. You can go to Dr. Phils web site and put this topic matter in the search area, or go to marrige/couples issues. I know what it feels like, you are hurting and this is a very important, sensitive matter to you. Take from me..for I have dealt with this problem in my OWN life...he starts with the internet, then he has to take it to the next level..just like drugs etc...it is an addiction. One thing leads to another, and so..on...They have to keep getting their fix, their high. What makes it more exciting for them is the sneakiness of going behind your back and talking to these women on the net. Don't try to change them, for most don't want to change...and don't think it is anything you are doing or not doing..you are just as beautiful, even more so, because you are not as trashy as these women...women who have any respect for themselves or morals, values don't participate in this kind of behavior.(Sex for Money)(either the streets, movies, net) it is all prostitution, no matter haow "Nice" you try to dress it. Dump him...he will try to convince you that he will quit, that he loves you..etc...you will forgive..and he will do it again..it is a cycle and an addiction...some will even loose their jobs over it...loose you ..choose this over you..knowing you disapprove and that it hurts you...that is deliberatly saying..."I know you are going to be hurt by this and I am for self..for me..(it is selfishness)..but I don't give a Da** about you..I want what I want....so it is a signal of selfishness. Any time You have to hide something, lie about soemthing, steal money to get it, watch it.etc..it is an addiction. From my experiance they look...lust over women more when they get out from the home, shopping, etc. They will even do it while you are with them, if you can catch them. When i say watch them...I mean follow them in the store...looking up and down, looking more than twice. I am trying to save you alot of hurt...get out now while you can, you deserve a better life..one with trust and respect, he is not respecting you by doing this. Take it from one who has been THERE, no one knows until they have walked a mile in my shoes! There is alot more, but i prefer to not go into detail...I will just say this "I had been married to this man, for 6 years and he had been sneaking it in and getting up through the middle of the night while I was asleep to watch it...I didn't know this UNTIL i was pregnat with our son....then I had found out about the AFFAIR he had because of the porn..(the Counselor told us that the porn had lead to the affair)....I forgave him..went to counseling and he promised to change etc...but years later...I find more poern..hid...and he had been doing it the whole time...the whole time he was going to counseling and telling me and the counsellor that he wasn't doing it. he is a sex addict..talks about all the time..wanted it all the time..don't get me wrong..making love is great with the one you love..but having "sex" all the time.."Three or more times a day" well just for the sake of ...you know ..is just sex... No matter what you do, how romantic, sexy, beautiful you are, sweet, loving , kind, trustworthy....HE WILL STILL DO IT...because he has the problem! not YOU! He is the one who always needs more...is never satisfied...you will never be good enough for him....because HE has the problem! "Let me not to the marriage of true minds Admit impediments; love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
These right-wing, judgemental, black-and-white statements always manage to get under my skin. quote:This statement has absolutely no basis in facts, is not supported by anything other than this man's opinion and disregards any possiblity of the differences between one couple to the next. This, in effect, is saying that every relationship, everywhere has the same values and problems, the same morals and potential pitfalls. Perverse? You know what perverse means? "Directed away from what is right or good" Who is he to judge that this is not right or good? Our laws allow it, which means that the majority of the people can't seem to think it's such a "perverse" thing, which means he apparently thinks his judgements better than a good portion of the country's. quote: AND while we're on perverse, I'd still like to know (been asking this question for a long time) why things such as pornography - hell, even the much milder sex-scenes on movies receive such harsh attention, yet the consistent violence prevalent in oh-so-many shows we all watch is given virtually no attention? What this says to me, is that there are a bunch of people uncomfortable both with themselves and their bodies and they're trying to make themselves happier by bashing those who aren't so uncomfortable. Ask yourself or your partner: Would you do it with your partner standing right there? Yes, and I have on many occasions. And then there are the times I've stood behind her while she was browsing... Are you turning outside of your relationship to meet a need that should be met within the relationship? You can't change what you don't acknowledge, so find out if you or your partner have a problem. No, I'm/we're not. People set aside "Date Night" to spice up their relationship, they might schedule a trip to a beachside bungalow, or go dancing, or any other of a number of things to add variety and interest to their relationship (and note that I say "add to" the relationship not "define it" - pornography can be much the same. Do you justify the behavior by saying, "It's harmless," "Everyone does it," or "It's just the Internet"? I don't do things I feel I need to justify; it's my life and I can live it how I choose. Who approves or doesn't is really not a concern that keeps me up at night. Does it intrude on your relationship? As one can infer from above responses, no, it doesn't. Which is more important: pornography or your relationship? My relationship. But it's never been an either or situation, because it IS just fantasy. Saying that it's "not real" like it's a revalation about made me fall out of my chair laughing. The subject of children watching pornography aside (and I believe that is a WHOLLY separate issue), those who watch pornography, well, you can be pretty sure thay're not thinking it's all that realistic (at least most men won't, considering the stamina of some of the guys in those flicks!  )egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"considering the stamina of some of the guys in those flicks! )" Now C, um, from what I've been TOLD (*snort*) even the women in porn should be commended for their stamina. They should get some credit for being there. and being there and being there and being there and over there too. and being there again. and over there again too... ( Thanks for taking up the 'cause, C. I was exhausted. Just ask Capricious, as um, we've both been here before. er...well, you know what I mean.) |
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Dark Kisses Member
since 2001-06-24
Posts 364Flat lands of Kansas |
Okay Okay, I didnt mean to start such a debate!! (geesh) Let me add a little more to this story for better understanding. A month or so ago, I checked his email, there was a *swingers* personal ad email in it. So I checked out the site for myself. He had a personals ad on there and the title was (Looking4anOrgy) I asked him about it and he stated that he was just looking at pics. I investigated further and found that he was also emailing women stating to them that his *wife* was okay with him getting a little from others as long as it didnt interfer with the relationship. Some emails he sent were way too much to say here (guidelines and all)I confronted him about the emails from the site and he got UPSET saying to me that it was just in *FUN* that he wasnt planning on meeting anyone. Fantasy, so he stated. One woman that he emailed thru this swingers site lives in the same town that he works in!!! Okay men?? So is that considered Fantasy and is it okay to do a thing to your loved one? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I didn't mean to make light of your apparent pain, if it seemed that way, I do apologize. But it does seem to me that you FEEL violated, and I say that's enough. I don't know how old you are, or how much time you have invested in your relationship, or if that even matters. I think a few of us were just trying to point out that other couples might feel differently about the issue. My husband once ran seven groups catering to sexual fetishes. The only thing I ever felt as a result of that was boredom. (After some initial fascination) He also corresponded with some of the women (er, at least we assume they were women) My take on it, was if there was something/someone out there he wanted more than ME, the I didn't want HIM. (ut then, I helped him load photo's of himself to send to an online gf recently, so we may not be the average couple. )So I guess I'm saying that if he doesn't care that this is hurting you, and thus damaging the relationship, THAT is the real issue, pornography or not. Talk to him, and if he can't see that, then I'd say, "time to move on". Good luck to you sweetie. I'm sorry for joking about what is obviously a painful situation for you. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Yes, I would consider it cheating. My view is that it brings "others" into the relationship that don't belong there. |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
again, I agree with Christopher (Kissy Face) 100% . I do also have to say that after what you said about checking "his" email, you don't trust him on that fact alone. That tells me there is a problem. Then what you did find, sounds to me like it's time to find someone who is better suited for you and shares your values. I think it's more than porn that you should be worried about. I would be worried that he will bring you home a disease. |
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Magnus
since 2001-10-10
Posts 14135South Carolina, USA |
When a man or woman has an excuse for every incident of inappropriate activity......... there is definitely a problem. As long as he continues to deny or have a reason, and does not understand that he is making you uncomfortable or hurting your relationship.... That is when I think I would find someone else who cares more about others and has their priorities in the right places... Obviously, he does not...and I seriously doubt he ever will...it has probably also been a problem in past relationships as well (if there was enough time for this to have occured).... Good Luck....tell him exactly how you feel and I would seriously doubt his sincerity of fixing the relationship, he has a sexual addiction and until he understands what it is, and who it is harming...and develops compassion for others....HE WON'T CHANGE... |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
First, I am so sorry for the pain you must be feeling. Barry is right - your man is telling you who he is loud and clear, and won't change. Thank goodness you can, and I hope you might look at the possibility of this being an extremely toxic relationship for you, and you are worth more than being second place. However, perhaps you can live with three is a crowd who knows? I think by posting this painful chapter in your life you wanted confirmation of your own instincts, and they are 100% correct. I hope you listen to them and follow them. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I've got to stand with Denise, Mysteria, & Barry on this one! Also, if it has comes to the issue, that you feel you must check up on him, then, there is and has been a problem already. Remember, ommission is the same as a lie. Don't trade your values or beliefs or try to justify behavior that does not fit into your moral adgenda....intimacy is and can be a very beautiful & positively spiritual journey....yet a very privet union, between two people who love each other and respect each other, without outside stimulous. Way to much emphasis is put on SEX today, nothing is left sensual...delicate, honorable, and responsibility for the hearts of others involved and thinking of them first is becoming vastly lost, not to mention, conscience. We can take any issue and convince ourselves with statistics to back up our thoughts, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, one must ask themselves, could I really live with this person, do I really want to believe in things I do not approve of...or try to become someone I am not? Eventually, you will resent yourself, as you chip away at your identity, to justify his actions....love "is" trust, without any question...and yes, porn is cheating, to me, anyway, and I wouldn't be able to conform to that life style... If trust is broken, it is very hard to mend. Once you've come this far, it opens the mind to other questions & contamination of the relationship...just how far would he or has he gone? Follow your intuition, that gut feeling inside....don't ignore the flags for a love, you thought you have, you want a love you know, intamently, one which values you so much so, that no one else would do Don't ask others for approval for your feelings...as we all have different ideals about the way we live our lives...what you must understand is this...When you trust yourself, and love yourself, you will be able to choose more responsible candidates for a lifetime companion. Until then, you will "buy" words with no sincerity behind them. If in your heart, you feel this is wrong...then stand by that moral institution of yours which makes you you! In other words, everyone has a different point of view...doesn't make me right or them wrong...but if I can't stand by my own set of rules, or would compromise them for fear of loosing someone or not being liked, then...who in the world am I? A contridictive mixed up woman who doesn't trust herself and choices. In the end what matters is...are you both compatible in thought, needs, morals, likes, dislikes, political views, etc....you can't agree on everything & won't, but compatibility surely helps...but this one's a biggy! Intimacy of the mind, can be just as rewarding as physical intimacy and sometimes even better...the more time you spend with someone, the prettier & more attractive, they "should" become...I for one, and I'm simply speaking for myself, have a great need for mental stimulation...physical stimulation I could get anywhere, if I so chose to do so...but mental stimulation and sensuality, makes for a much deeper and spiritual physical intimacy...one journey that you will never ever forget....and will sufice for a lifetime of events. I don't think this fella respects himself, and if that's true, then he will never understand respect for you...your feelings and needs, and you do have them....needs, which are just as important as his. Is this cheating....yes, to me it is...but...one can easily convince themselves since it's only a picture, it's not really cheating... Is sex to him an addiction? If that is true, then please know, these type of people, only feel powerful when they are in bed...they delude themselves into believing that they are the best, b/c they have no confidence in themselves in other areas... Sex to them, is their only source of power, like some people need fast shiny cars or a beautiful young man/woman on their arm...status and prestige...or an addiction to money. In your mind, what is your description of sucess, and it might be a question you'd ask of any candidate whom your trusting your heart with. Your heart, is the greatest investment you will ever make, and when you decide to share that intimate part of self, you'd better make it quite clear, who you are, and what you believe in...no masks...b/c it's better to loose him now, and find someone more compatible to your needs, then 14 years down the road, now effecting the lives of your children. What do you want? What is good for you? How does this make you feel? What are "your" needs from a relationship? What emotions are most important in a relationship...are his needs the same, does he stimulate you intellectually, will he put anything he might be doing aside to spontaniously do something nice for you? Will he let you choose and does he encourage you to further education, further your growth...does he look at you and smile being kind only when he's horney, or...does he look at you that way...does he brag about his sexual experiences with other woman and/or take so much pride in his, shall we say, experience...gloating? I've found that men of such are very very insecure...and when it comes down to it, some of them cannot be intimate in any other way...and they are like this with every woman they meet, thinking that every woman who smiles at them, says good morning or strikes up a conversation with them...wants them....yes, they are that insecure, not to mention, great players and liers. I'm sorry, but this behavior runs a pattern...as does an alcoholic, controller, child or wife abuser...it is a sickness which requires long term theropy... I felt a need to explain in detail here, because these are things, I believe you already know, but the need for a boyfriend, keeps you in denial. No on can answer these questions, only you know, but make certain, you are honest with yourself, first and foremost. The fact that you've already asked this question, signfies you already knew the answer before you asked? I wrote a poem for you today... /pip/Forum92/HTML/001204.html Hugs and prayers for you...and yours. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
fantasy is not cheating...take away the stigma of pornography for a second: Were married women and girls with boyfriends who went into hysterics over the Beatles, or sighing over their favourite rock/pop star posters cheating? Are married females watching,drooling and commenting over Brad Pitt cheating? Were teenage girls with boyfriends, watching Leonardo in Titanic over and over cheating? |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Anemial.... Sorry Anemial...but what you describe is certainly not the same...not to me, anyway...whole different ball game entirely |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
I think it's exactly the same thing Lee....when Jon took me to see Prince, I screamed at one point...'Ilove you' to Prince, along with every other woman....hehehe... but was that cheating? Nope, I sure don't think so. I was caught up in the moment of "being there". I think Raph makes an excellent point. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
we're talking porn compared to a simple crush, are we not?... I had a teacher I had a crush on...it didn't have anything to do with porn..no, no, no, far from it....or your child's crush on the neighbors child, is not porn...or child porn....????? There is most certainly a difference, right now I have a crush on Kevin Costner, but it's not porn...unless of course, you count how many times I've dreampt about him...hehe...NOT! But I suggest, you understand the definition of porn, maybe that will clarify, or...perhaps I'm not understanding your view point...but can hardly compare a crush to being addicted to porn...???? And, porn, I don't believe can be compared to naked pictures of women or men? |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Dark Kisses, As some have already said, I don't think this is a matter of "cheating" but rather a matter of trust for you. You have already answered your own question. It isn't alright in a relationship with you. Now for my personal experience: (some already know this story *kiss* so talk amongst yourselves)... I was in a relationship were porn was being viewed and I didn't have a problem with it. Until the day I found that he had been looking at gay male porn. ah...that was a problem for me. When I confronted him, one of the things he said was that he couldn't understand my concern as I have gay friends and family members and have no problem with them....my response? I ain't sleepin' with them!!!! He was all moved out 2 days later.. Now, someone else might not have had a problem with it and that is okay too. It's all about what you feel. Good luck. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Cloud 9 Senior Member
since 2004-11-05
Posts 980Ca |
o.k...I will give my opinion on this. Some of you may think I am wierd or just crazy. Here is my take on this. For the most part I have to agree with Christopher. I don't consider magazines, porno movies, sites, strip clubs or stripper at bachelor parties consider to be cheating. However, the part about having any type of "contact" with someone is cheating. That, is crossing the line. O.k so let define the above sentence.... I would be mad to if my bf/husband was emailing someone and/or getting into chat rooms and talking to them constantly. NOW, I don't think there is anything wrong with him and his friends going out every once in a great great while (I have to express "once in a great while") and they go to the city and go to a strip bar. Yes, there will be contact. Let me explain this a different way.... If we are in a store and my husband sees this woman and looks at her and I catch him. And all he says is she is cute or comments about her "rack", no big deal. I have even commented on men but my responses to him are..."yeah, shes cute." or even I would say, "Ewww", and we go about our day and our life. Now its a different story if he walked up to her and started talking to her and got her phone number AND/OR told me he wished I looked like that AND/OR if he kept going to the store just to see if she there (say she worked there) NOW THAT is a different story. Yes, and two of the three have happened to me before. I had to sit and think what if that were my boyfriend and I was going through that. He definately stepped over the line. Susan is right....it's about trust and how YOU feel. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
"but it's not porn...unless of course, you count how many times I've dreampt about him...hehe...NOT!" what if those dreams were sexual in nature? would you deem them pornographic? after all they are images of sexuality. were you cheating on your husband by fantasizing such things? perhaps there were no sexual elements to your dream, but there are women who could freely daydream or joke about what they'd do with a brad pitt, the ups guy etc etc. and there's nothign wrong with that. we're talking about fantasy images and human sexuality. fantasy is not cheating, whether it's a physical picture/video (pornography) or a daydream. that said, in this case, the topic of the thread, a line was crossed. a connection was made. but it's not the pornography that's to blame, it's the two people involved in that connection, which just as easily could have occured over a cup of coffee at the workplace, or in line at the grocery store. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
but it's not the pornography that's to blame, it's the two people involved in that connection, which just as easily could have occured over a cup of coffee at the workplace, or in line at the grocery store. I'm seeing things through your window and sincerely understand... but are they talking about an innocent connection or...one of addiction...which is what I understood it to be? There is a difference... |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
even if there is a problem due to additiction to porn, the issue should be with the additction, not the tool. there's a vast gulf between admiration and adultry. the problem is that many people have very long strides in this area. egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Pornograghy, is incredibly insulting to women. Here are some fallicies I found in the Arguements for Pornograghy.\\ Wemon do it too- So you would jump off a cliff to huh? Its natural- Um... Natural like what? Dr Phil is a psycologist so his opinion is cridible Ok look. Pornograghy is extreemly insulting to wemon. Its insulting. I can understand why Kisses feels that way. Look, if the guy makes you feel cruddy, leave him. Not saying that all guys that look at porn are bad, just that if the guy makes her feel like that, maybe it's not the porn. Another point is if you hate porn that much, then you should leave him. Chances are he wont give up porn. This is because Sometimes poeple get a sexual high from it. this releases chemicals in the bain and it gets addictive. Thats why there are some guys who have 30,000 or more files of porn at there offfice. Most poeple know that you don't look up porn at the office place, but those that do, do it because they have to see it. What I am basically saying, if you don't like it and it bothers you, you should first tell him. Then if he declines to stop then leave. Life is to short to waiste it over insecurity, because a boyfriend looks at porn. I don't go out with guys that I know are big in the porn. why? Because deep in my mind I feel like they are trying to picture me naked, and that they are all ways looking at me as a meens for ... other then companionship. Sincerely JUju |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
juju, understand that i'm not trying to be insulting, but you honestly have to check your spelling. granted alot of us, myself included, are lax on grammar, punctuation and capitalization(case in point). but as a reader, i've sometimes found it impossible to follow your train of thought. and even when i manage, i'm completely distracted by the errors you make. i wanted to email this to you but as it's unlisted i had to write this here. as for your comments, yes there is a dark side to pornography, there's a dark side to everything. but to say that all porn is degrading to women, or to assume that all females in porn are victims is narrow-minded. also, listing dr. phil as a credible anything, let alone psychologist, is ludicrous |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
nodding in agreement with Raph here...those women get PAID to do what they do. Same with the men. Why didn't you say it was degrading to men? Don't you think it is? (and no, I don't...it's a choice they make to do that. Just like folks have a choice to look at it, or not...to be ok with it, or not) It simply is a personal choice... |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote:Nope, (well, yes, but, I was young and the water was deep and that's a different story) - but jumping off a cliff is not at all a realistic analogy for viewing pornography and really makes no sense here. quote:Natural like having sex is natural, like admiring an attractive person, like eating or wanting to each chocolate and other rich foods, like enjoying going at fast speeds, like... yeah like that. Many of those I've known who are not in favor of porn still admit that it's fascinating. They may be disgusted by the idea or actuality of it, but it's still something that arouses. Does this make it right? Not saying that, but it is natural. quote:I have to agree with Raph on this one. What little exposure I've had to the man has shown me that he's a narrow-minded, biased, self-absorbed wanna-be guru. His opinions may fit well with many conservatives, but, then again, I think many ultra-conservatives are also narrow-minded, biased and self-absorbed. You want an insult to women? Start by comparing salaries and the average avaliable job openings still mostly male dominated. That's an insult. egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Well Thats fine if you disagree with me, But My main point isn't simply that porn is bad, that or comment was in responce to you guys, and since the effects of porn is psychology, then this is a values arguement. I don't have the time to get in to those. lol. All what I said was in responce to Dark Kisses. I was trying to tell her that I understood. Ok guys, I understand your point on Dr. Phil. It is like My veiw on Micheal Moore. ONly I think I have more distaste for him. THe cliff comment is a chiche, that simply means JUst because so-on-so does it doesn't make it right. It is an actual fallacy. But any ways I just was giving her advice. |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
to use a word from Sue, that Dr. Phil is a whacknut. I am very conservative and can't stand to hear that man rattle on enjoying the sound of his own voice....  and yes yes ...good grief...I would not look at porn just because someone else did...rofl...nooooo, I look at it cause I LIKE to definately not the same thing here as them doing something like jumping off a bridge...that analogy just doesn't fit in this kind of situation. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I don't know if I've got this right, but my understanding, or lack thereof, was the fact that the issue is....this man has an addiction to porn? Yes? But also believe, that compatibility is essential and viable to any relationship...meaning, mental compatibility...you can't change people, so it might be wise to look for someone who thinks and feels the same way about issues, morals, values, retirement plans, high ended resturants like Friendly's...hehe, robbing a neighborhood store, and but of course, Dr. Phil. Also, it's important to allow people their beliefs, no matter how trivial or stupid we may think them to be...you don't have to agree, but respect must be first and foremost....allowance with the understanding that each of us is on our own journey, and may not be as far along intellectually, as the next person...we all have our talents but they are never the same as the next person's. So we must be patient enough to consider that. Lastly...I'm going to say this once more, not in debate and in complete respect....Chris, and all the rest of you guys, I thoroughly understand where your coming from...but...consider this, when you log onto that fav porn sight....well, what if the first photo that popped up was your daughter? I don't need anyone to reply, cuz frankly, I really don't care to know how you feel, just throwing the idea out there to think about... I'm not a prud, and do consider myself conservative...I don't mean that from a political standpoint. It's great reading and considering the views of others, from that we learn...but...in the same, condisention and aloof comments in return, to me, are from a lack of understanding, that we all need to grow, and perhaps will catch up....only through complete understanding and respect for the opinions of others, no matter how dumb or non-intellectual or dull they may seem. and someday, I hope this world learns its not always about being right, sometimes, I believe, this day and age, people are more concerned about being right...then stepping back and considering? Patience and allowance...respect enough for oneself, to allow another their flaws and still love them for it, although, remembering, any addiction is not a good thing? Sincerely and quit fondly Lee J. [This message has been edited by LeeJ (04-08-2005 12:56 PM).] |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
Lee, I totally understand what you mean, but in like kind, you are ever so nicely putting us down. I would much rather someone tell me that they think I am being stupid or saying something that is out of context or that I'm being close minded or whatever the case may be, don't hint around about it or do that back handed compliment stuff. It is exactly the same thing you are saying, you don't like. If one of my daughters was on a porn web site, don't you think she would tell me BEFORE I went there, or her father went there and was shocked like that? At least then I could(and definately would) avoid that site or magazine or movie or whatever it was. LOL yuck.... I don't have any problem what so ever with anyone who doesn't like porn. It simply isn't for some people. It would be ridiculous to say that people who don't like it are wierd or something. I don't push anything on to anyone. To each his own. Just like I don't give people who don't have tattoos a hard time, but I find that people who don't have them, tend to be very narrow minded and call me things like "biker mama". There is one person on here that has called me that though, that I did not take any offense to, I love her and know she ws just joking around with me. I do feel badly that Dark Kisses is going through this and seriously hope she gets out of the relationship for her own good. It wouldn't matter if it was porn or chocolate, if her values and his are different, it won't work. And him hurting her like that is the main issue, the lack of respect. She deserves better. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I do agree with you about Dark kisses, and disagree, I was not trying to put anyone down...for their beliefs...not you or anyone, simply expressing my own, and finding humor in myself...and I apologize, if you thought it was a direct hit, as it surely was not intended to be as such. sincerely Lee J. |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
Lee  it's all good  |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Lee, I happen to agree with most of what you've said. I make no bones about picking on someone's argument if it's narrow-minded and based on unsubstantiated information. I don't bash other's beliefs, either underhandedly or openly, though I most definitely question the shifting sand those beliefs often seem to be founded in. If the subject had been focused on and stayed on the addiction and incompatibility, I would have kept much quieter throughout this discussion. It hasn't though, it's been focused on whether viewing pornography makes [him] bad and that pornography is demeaning to women and... you get my point. I agree that if there's an addiction of any kind - drugs, pornography, alcohol, smoking, over-eating, etc., that it's something that needs to be looked at closely in a relationship to evaluate the potential for damage it represents. Sometimes, (ie. two smokers in a relationship) that addiction is not likely to have any noticeable affect on the relationships. Other times, such as I would gather this one is such, when the two beliefs are so diametrically opposed, it's inevitable to cause grief. Same thing goes for the issue of moral values. If I believe killing small children is a fun way to pass the time, my S.O., who happens to love children very much may not want to stick around with me for very long (not to mention she'd want to call in the FBI...lol). I do have one question for you, though - did you notice that you chose "daughter" instead of "son" or "daughter or son"? Women aren't forced into porn (as a rule, I recognize that there may be exceptions) any more than men are. If it's degrading to one sex, it's degrading to the other. If anyone thinks it's only the person being pushed in the mud that's being degraded, they may want to rethink their concept of being degraded; the person doing the pushing is degrading him/herself far more than the one they're bullying. egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
quote: Completely agree with Chris on all points, but especially those expressed above. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
What's porn? |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Well, AS a narrow minded conservative that never listens and cutting you down all I have to say is simple: Half of the women... may not actually be women. And those guys... hard to say. But when I see those guys on the bus... the ones that loook at the magazines.... All I can do is smile and know that there fantasy women is probably.... a fantasy man. (- (; -) You see the pornindustry doesn't want you to know that.... lol. Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
juju? what? rofl....that was hysterical |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Yeah... I told you so |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
you sure did.....but what I wonder is how you know which guys on the bus are the ones that look at porn....unless they are looking at it on the bus, and then I would suggest riding on a different bus! |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
HEheheh. harder saud then done. How do I know? How can I not know. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
quote: juju, I don't know what your sources are, what kind of bus you're taking, what kind of porn they're into or what you've come in contact with. but assuming, as you are, that pornstars are transexuals, you can't exactly argue that porn is demeaning to women then can you.  |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Well it is actually demeaning in general... I can't chooses the buses I go on in the city. But any ways... True. Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
What's porn? |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Wow I thought that was sarcasm. Thats ok. porn=picture of naked people in sexual like contexes... or sexually explicit material. It is short for pornograghy -I know whats coming... man I hate argueing with poeple... Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
if you hate arguing... egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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Cloud 9 Senior Member
since 2004-11-05
Posts 980Ca |
juju ROFLMAO!!!! |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
I don't hate talking, but I hate the time it takes. I am short on time, Because I am getting an engineering degree in a very hard field. That IS why I don't post often/ at wierd times. lol. Thank you christifer. I loved it. It was lovely. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
What is naked? What is sexually explicit? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Reb, you're beginning to make me wonder....  |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
I knew you would do this Reb. Stop taking the stop light from me. I am the funny one. I respect you as a poet and you know I do, but really! as a comedian! My randomness will reign supreem! JUju |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I love Local Rebel.  (uh oh. I'm married. Izzat cheating?) (if he comes back and asks me what's love, I'd only love him more...) |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
love I can answer -- it's a cocktail of adrenaline-like brain-manufactured drugs, phenylethylalamine, oxytocin, dopamine.... all of which you can get eating a snickers bar and jumping out of an airplane people still prefer sex and snickers bars though for some reason... naked, porn, sexually explicit -- all subjective terms...  |
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