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Passions in Poetry

Is it cheating?

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Cloud 9
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25 posted 03-28-2005 12:04 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

o.k...I will give my opinion on this. Some of you may think I am wierd or just crazy.

Here is my take on this. For the most part I have to agree with Christopher.

I don't consider magazines, porno movies, sites, strip clubs or stripper at bachelor parties consider to be cheating.

However, the part about having any type of "contact" with someone is cheating. That, is crossing the line.

O.k so let define the above sentence....
I would be mad to if my bf/husband was emailing someone and/or getting into chat rooms and talking to them constantly.
NOW, I don't think there is anything wrong with him and his friends going out every once in a great great while (I have to express "once in a great while") and they go to the city and go to a strip bar. Yes, there will be contact.

Let me explain this a different way....
If we are in a store and my husband sees this woman and looks at her and I catch him. And all he says is she is cute or comments about her "rack", no big deal. I have even commented on men but my responses to him are..."yeah, shes cute." or even I would say, "Ewww", and we go about our day and our life. Now its a different story if he walked up to her and started talking to her and got her phone number AND/OR told me he wished I looked like that AND/OR if he kept going to the store just to see if she there (say she worked there) NOW THAT is a different story.

Yes, and two of the three have happened to me before.


I had to sit and think what if that were my boyfriend and I was going through that. He definately stepped over the line.

Susan is right....it's about trust and how YOU feel.


Aenimal
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26 posted 03-29-2005 10:35 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

"but it's not porn...unless of course, you count how many times I've dreampt about him...hehe...NOT!"  


what if those dreams were sexual in nature? would you deem them pornographic? after all they are images of sexuality. were you cheating on your husband by fantasizing such things? perhaps there were no sexual elements to your dream, but there are women who could freely daydream or joke about what they'd do with a brad pitt, the ups guy etc etc. and there's nothign wrong with that.

we're talking about fantasy images and human sexuality. fantasy is not cheating, whether it's a physical picture/video (pornography) or a daydream.

that said, in this case, the topic of the thread, a line was crossed. a connection was made. but it's not the pornography that's to blame, it's the two people involved in that connection, which just as easily could have occured over a cup of coffee at the workplace, or in line at the grocery store.


LeeJ
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27 posted 03-30-2005 12:11 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

but it's not the pornography that's to blame, it's the two people involved in that connection, which just as easily could have occured over a cup of coffee at the workplace, or in line at the grocery store.


I'm seeing things through your window and sincerely understand...

but are they talking about an innocent connection or...one of addiction...which is what I understood it to be?  There is a difference...

  
Christopher
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28 posted 03-30-2005 01:05 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

even if there is a problem due to additiction to porn, the issue should be with the additction, not the tool.

there's a vast gulf between admiration and adultry. the problem is that many people have very long strides in this area.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.

Juju
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29 posted 04-06-2005 01:40 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Pornograghy, is incredibly insulting to women.

Here are some fallicies I found in the Arguements for Pornograghy.\\

Wemon do it too-  So you would jump off a cliff to huh?

Its natural- Um... Natural like what?

Dr Phil is a psycologist so his opinion is cridible

Ok look.  Pornograghy is extreemly insulting to wemon. Its insulting. I can understand why Kisses feels that way.  Look, if the guy makes you feel cruddy, leave him.  Not saying that all guys that look at porn are bad, just that if the guy makes her feel like that, maybe it's not the porn.  Another point is if you hate porn that much, then you should leave him.  Chances are he wont give up porn.  This is because Sometimes poeple get a sexual high from it. this releases chemicals in the bain and it gets addictive. Thats why there are some guys who have 30,000 or more files of porn at there offfice.  Most poeple know that you don't look up porn at the office place, but those that do, do it because they have to see it.  

What I am basically saying, if you don't like it and it bothers you, you should first tell him. Then if he declines to stop then leave. Life is to short to waiste it over insecurity, because a boyfriend looks at porn.  I don't go out with guys that I know are big in the porn. why?  Because deep in my mind I feel like they are trying to picture me naked, and that they are all ways looking at me as a meens for ... other then companionship.  


Sincerely JUju
Aenimal
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30 posted 04-06-2005 03:52 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

juju, understand that i'm not trying to be insulting, but you honestly have to check your spelling. granted alot of us, myself included, are lax on grammar, punctuation and capitalization(case in point). but as a reader, i've sometimes found it impossible to follow your train of thought. and even when i manage, i'm completely distracted by the errors you make. i wanted to email this to you but as it's unlisted i had to write this here.

as for your comments, yes there is a dark side to pornography, there's a dark side to everything. but to say that all porn is degrading to women, or to assume that all females in porn are victims is narrow-minded.

also, listing dr. phil as a credible anything, let alone psychologist, is ludicrous


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31 posted 04-06-2005 05:24 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

nodding in agreement with Raph here...those women get PAID to do what they do. Same with the men. Why didn't you say it was degrading to men? Don't you think it is?
(and no, I don't...it's a choice they make to do that. Just like folks have a choice to look at it, or not...to be ok with it, or not) It simply is a personal choice...

Christopher
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32 posted 04-06-2005 08:29 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
Here are some fallicies I found in the Arguements for Pornograghy.\\

Wemon do it too-  So you would jump off a cliff to huh?
Nope, (well, yes, but, I was young and the water was deep and that's a different story) - but jumping off a cliff is not at all a realistic analogy for viewing pornography and really makes no sense here.
quote:
Its natural- Um... Natural like what?
Natural like having sex is natural, like admiring an attractive person, like eating or wanting to each chocolate and other rich foods, like enjoying going at fast speeds, like... yeah like that. Many of those I've known who are not in favor of porn still admit that it's fascinating. They may be disgusted by the idea or actuality of it, but it's still something that arouses. Does this make it right? Not saying that, but it is natural.
quote:
Dr Phil is a psycologist so his opinion is cridible
I have to agree with Raph on this one. What little exposure I've had to the man has shown me that he's a narrow-minded, biased, self-absorbed wanna-be guru. His opinions may fit well with many conservatives, but, then again, I think many ultra-conservatives are also narrow-minded, biased and self-absorbed.

You want an insult to women? Start by comparing salaries and the average avaliable job openings still mostly male dominated. That's an insult.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.

Juju
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33 posted 04-06-2005 09:29 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Well Thats fine if you disagree with me, But My main point isn't simply that porn is bad, that or comment was in responce to you guys, and since the effects of porn is psychology, then this is a values arguement.  I don't have the time to get in to those. lol.  

All what I said was in responce to Dark Kisses.  I was trying to tell her that I understood.

Ok guys, I understand your point on Dr. Phil.  It is like My veiw on Micheal Moore.  ONly I think I have more distaste for him.  

THe cliff comment is a chiche, that simply means JUst because so-on-so does it doesn't make it right.  It is an actual fallacy.  
But any ways I just was giving her advice.
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34 posted 04-06-2005 11:29 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

to use a word from Sue, that Dr. Phil is a whacknut. I am very conservative and can't stand to hear that man rattle on enjoying the sound of his own voice....

and yes yes ...good grief...I would not look at porn just because someone else did...rofl...nooooo, I look at it cause I LIKE to definately not the same thing here as them doing something like jumping off a bridge...that analogy just doesn't fit in this kind of situation.
LeeJ
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35 posted 04-08-2005 11:44 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I don't know if I've got this right, but my understanding, or lack thereof, was the fact that the issue is....this man has an addiction to porn?  Yes?  

But also believe, that compatibility is essential and viable to any relationship...meaning, mental compatibility...you can't change people, so it might be wise to look for someone who thinks and feels the same way about issues, morals, values, retirement plans, high ended resturants like Friendly's...hehe,  robbing a neighborhood store, and but of course, Dr. Phil.

Also, it's important to allow people their beliefs, no matter how trivial or stupid we may think them to be...you don't have to agree, but respect must be first and foremost....allowance with the understanding that each of us is on our own journey, and may not be as far along intellectually, as the next person...we all have our talents but they are never the same as the next person's.  So we must be patient enough to consider that.

Lastly...I'm going to say this once more, not in debate and in complete respect....Chris, and all the rest of you guys, I thoroughly understand where your coming from...but...consider this, when you log onto that fav porn sight....well, what if the first photo that popped up was your daughter?  I don't need anyone to reply, cuz frankly, I really don't care to know how you feel, just throwing the idea out there to think about...

I'm not a prud, and do consider myself conservative...I don't mean that from a political standpoint.

It's great reading and considering the views of others, from that we learn...but...in the same, condisention and aloof comments in return, to me, are from a lack of understanding, that we all need to grow, and perhaps will catch up....only through complete understanding and respect for the opinions of others, no matter how dumb or non-intellectual or dull they may seem.

and someday, I hope this world learns its not always about being right, sometimes, I believe, this day and age, people are more concerned about being right...then stepping back and considering?

Patience and allowance...respect enough for oneself, to allow another their flaws and still love them for it, although, remembering, any addiction is not a good thing?

Sincerely and quit fondly
Lee J.

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (04-08-2005 12:56 PM).]

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36 posted 04-08-2005 12:38 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Lee,
I totally understand what you mean, but in like kind, you are ever so nicely putting us down. I would much rather someone tell me that they think I am being stupid or saying something that is out of context or that I'm being close minded or whatever the case may be, don't hint around about it or do that back handed compliment stuff. It is exactly the same thing you are saying, you don't like.
If one of my daughters was on a porn web site, don't you think she would tell me BEFORE I went there, or her father went there and was shocked like that? At least then I could(and definately would) avoid that site or magazine or movie or whatever it was. LOL yuck....

I don't have any problem what so ever with anyone who doesn't like porn. It simply isn't for some people. It would be ridiculous to say that people who don't like it are wierd or something. I don't push anything on to anyone. To each his own. Just like I don't give people who don't have tattoos a hard time, but I find that people who don't have them, tend to be very narrow minded and call me things like "biker mama". There is one person on here that has called me that though, that I did not take any offense to, I love her and know she ws just joking around with me.

I do feel badly that Dark Kisses is going through this and seriously hope she gets out of the relationship for her own good. It wouldn't matter if it was porn or chocolate, if her values and his are different, it won't work. And him hurting her like that is the main issue, the lack of respect. She deserves better.
LeeJ
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37 posted 04-08-2005 01:00 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I do agree with you about Dark kisses, and disagree, I was not trying to put anyone down...for their beliefs...not you or anyone, simply expressing my own, and finding humor in myself...and I apologize, if you thought it was a direct hit, as it surely was not intended to be as such.  

sincerely
Lee J.

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38 posted 04-08-2005 01:17 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Lee it's all good  
Christopher
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39 posted 04-08-2005 04:24 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Lee, I happen to agree with most of what you've said. I make no bones about picking on someone's argument if it's narrow-minded and based on unsubstantiated information. I don't bash other's beliefs, either underhandedly or openly, though I most definitely question the shifting sand those beliefs often seem to be founded in.

If the subject had been focused on and stayed on the addiction and incompatibility, I would have kept much quieter throughout this discussion. It hasn't though, it's been focused on whether viewing pornography makes [him] bad and that pornography is demeaning to women and... you get my point.

I agree that if there's an addiction of any kind - drugs, pornography, alcohol, smoking, over-eating, etc., that it's something that needs to be looked at closely in a relationship to evaluate the potential for damage it represents. Sometimes, (ie. two smokers in a relationship) that addiction is not likely to have any noticeable affect on the relationships. Other times, such as I would gather this one is such, when the two beliefs are so diametrically opposed, it's inevitable to cause grief.

Same thing goes for the issue of moral values. If I believe killing small children is a fun way to pass the time, my S.O., who happens to love children very much may not want to stick around with me for very long (not to mention she'd want to call in the FBI...lol).

I do have one question for you, though - did you notice that you chose "daughter" instead of "son" or "daughter or son"? Women aren't forced into porn (as a rule, I recognize that there may be exceptions) any more than men are. If it's degrading to one sex, it's degrading to the other.

If anyone thinks it's only the person being pushed in the mud that's being degraded, they may want to rethink their concept of being degraded; the person doing the pushing is degrading him/herself far more than the one they're bullying.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.

Aenimal
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40 posted 04-09-2005 06:14 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
If the subject had been focused on and stayed on the addiction and incompatibility, I would have kept much quieter throughout this discussion. It hasn't though, it's been focused on whether viewing pornography makes [him] bad and that pornography is demeaning to women and...

I do have one question for you, though - did you notice that you chose "daughter" instead of "son" or "daughter or son"? Women aren't forced into porn (as a rule, I recognize that there may be exceptions) any more than men are. If it's degrading to one sex, it's degrading to the other...



Completely agree with Chris on all points, but especially those expressed above.
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41 posted 04-09-2005 06:53 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

What's porn?
Juju
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42 posted 04-09-2005 10:24 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Well, AS a narrow minded conservative that never listens and cutting you down all I have to say is simple: Half of the women... may not actually be women. And those guys... hard to say. But when I see those guys on the bus...  the ones that loook at the magazines....  All I can do is smile and know that there fantasy women is probably.... a fantasy man. (- (; -)

You see the pornindustry doesn't want you to know that.... lol.  

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

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43 posted 04-10-2005 01:32 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

juju? what? rofl....that was hysterical
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44 posted 04-10-2005 01:37 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Yeah... I told you so
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45 posted 04-10-2005 01:45 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

you sure did.....but what I wonder is how you know which guys on the bus are the ones that look at porn....unless they are looking at it on the bus, and then I would suggest riding on a different bus!
Juju
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46 posted 04-10-2005 11:26 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

HEheheh.  harder saud then done.  How do I know? How can I not know.
Aenimal
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47 posted 04-10-2005 04:50 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
Well, AS a narrow minded conservative that never listens and cutting you down all I have to say is simple: Half of the women... may not actually be women.



juju, I don't know what your sources are, what kind of bus you're taking, what kind of porn they're into or what you've come in contact with. but assuming, as you are, that pornstars are transexuals, you can't exactly argue that porn is demeaning to women then can you.
Juju
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48 posted 04-10-2005 09:42 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Well it is actually demeaning in general...

I can't chooses the buses I go on in the city. But any ways... True.

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

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49 posted 04-10-2005 11:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

What's porn?
 
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