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Passions in Poetry

Dating a member of the opposite party.

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Kaoru
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0 posted 11-05-2004 03:40 AM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru


As we all know, the elections have come to an end, and we have Bush as a president for another four years. I may not be too happy about this, but I know that it is my duty to keep my priorities in line.

My boyfriend of over a year, and father to my child, is a conservative. I myself aim more for socialism.

During the election period, my significant other and I fought and tore at eachother like two male cats fighting over a female. No matter how hard either of us tried, the political discussion would somehow come up, even if it had nothing to do with what we were talking about. I could mention brocolli, and after 10 minutes, there would be a heated argument about Goerge W.

There are times that I wonder how the two of us managed to stay together. I still love him with all my heart, and I'd hope the feeling is mutual. Sometimes, I just wonder how and why I, of all people, ended up with such a loudmouthed conservative. My mother, sisters and friends all share my beliefs.. how did I fall in love with someone so different?

I realized a lot of things.. Political stances do make up a lot of who a person is. I may have been naive to this before, but now I know that politics are what a person believes in.. and that is what makes a person who they are. Paul thinks that Bush shares his beliefs in a lot more things than Kerry, or any of the other canidates.. So I know that Paul believes that same sex marriage is "wrong", abortion is out of the question, and etc. My veiw of him changed dramatically when I realized this.. When I knew that his beliefs were so varied from my own.

I think about it everyday, about how much it hurts me to know that he believes in some of these things.. That he thinks that his beliefs are right enough to take away the rights of other human beings who happen to live here... I can't seem to get over it.

I wish I could say I needed advice, but really, who knows what to do in this kind of situation? I knew that he was this way and vice versa when we got together, and I still love him..so why does it bother me so much?

Sunshine
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1 posted 11-05-2004 07:00 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
I knew that he was this way and vice versa when we got together, and I still love him..so why does it bother me so much?

Probably because now, as a mother, even though you knew the differences of Paul when you first met, it seems more important to you now to be together as a family, pulling together, deciding in unison that which would be best for your child.

While that can happen in some families, I would guess that the majority of families have spouses that do not agree with them, politically.  Once they decide they will never agree on politics, there comes the "agree to disagree" phase.  Politics can be talked about, yes, but each one seems to establish more of a "don't ask, don't tell" approach, at least with each other.  When out in public, meetings or functions, parties, etc., and the subject of politics comes up, maturity lends itself to one or the other spouse staying quiet until their other half has a chance to answer a question or respond to a comment.  This is nothing more than common courtesy.  Everyone has a say.  In the same light, should the question then come to you, maturity and courtesy come forth when you say, "I respect Paul's thought on this, but this is how I feel."  Both of you should know at the outset that you are allowed to speak your mind, and that even in public, you will agree to disagree.

And this, Meghan, is of course very simplistic in theory, especially when people are passionate about their choices.  It also works for a lot of families who are divided not only in politics, but choice of schools, religion, etc.  Discuss this with Paul.  It could work.  

Especially if the love you have for him is returned in kind.   Good luck!
Not A Poet
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2 posted 11-05-2004 09:49 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

It can be difficult but it can work. Listen to Sunshine's advice. Probably the classic example is Mary Matlin and James Carville.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

Alicat
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3 posted 11-05-2004 12:57 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Such a pairing can last, but that entirely depends on the participants.  Arnold and Maria is one example, one a moderate Republican, the other a moderate (I think) Democrat hailing from the Kennedys.  And from a personal standpoint, my parents differ vastly and have been married for almost 40 years.  She's a conservative Christian, he's a Wiccan High Priest.  She's from a deep rooted rural Democratic line (though most have become Independants or Republicans after being abandoned by the DNC during the 70s and 80s), he's a very traditional-minded conservative Republican.  She was raised in central Texas, he was raised in central Massachusetts.  They agreed to disagree on a good many topics, like religion and politics, and have such great love for each other that they refuse to bait the other.

You always hear of women desiring to change their male partner.  In my instance, mom was changed over the years to a moderate-conservative Republican.  

The point is, such an odd pairing can last, but it all depends on the two people directly involved.
LeeJ
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4 posted 11-05-2004 01:50 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I believe these relationships can not only last but also gift us with personal growth, in maturity and allowance, respect for the others ideas, opinions....lets face it, in 10 years neither one of you will feel the same as you do right now....with that in mind...you will both raise very healthy children, both yourselves, your child and family.  Smiles and hugs....
Krawdad
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5 posted 11-05-2004 05:56 PM       View Profile for Krawdad   Email Krawdad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Krawdad

Why?
Because, at least some of the time, you don't want anything between you.
And the risk is that these differences may become levers.  I hope that doesn't happen.
But enough "advice".
Hope you and Freyja are well.
Mysteria
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6 posted 11-06-2004 01:50 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

You know my husband (#3) and I set an actual time we would debate politics, and kept it a rule that we didn't discuss it any other time than that.  It was fun.  Like playing a game almost, as every so often we would sit there and get heated - you get to make up right?  See my point   If you start a power struggle of any kind, never mind politics, people walk around with their guard up.  So, my theory has always been it is good to be me, and give me a time to tell ya see?  You too get your time in the limelight for the courtesy.
Huan Yi
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7 posted 11-06-2004 02:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Kaoru,


“and I still love him..”

Why, (assuming this isn’t the same knee jerk
response Hitler’s son would give)?  In your
answer lies the answer.

“so why does it bother me so much?”

Maybe you’ve been suckered
into believing it should.

John

P.S  “and father to my child”

I assume you weren’t drunk at the time,
(time being virtually the whole time
you were pregnant and when you could
legally end it), so something about him
made it good for him to be the father.  


Midnitesun
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8 posted 11-06-2004 06:27 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun


private email being sent

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (11-06-2004 07:07 PM).]

Ericc
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9 posted 12-16-2004 07:37 PM       View Profile for Ericc   Email Ericc   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ericc

As Gandhi said..."be the change you wish to see." Perhaps there is no need to change your boyfriends views. Or yours. Or even to debate such issues. This does not mean to not have passion for your beliefs. Yet the world is larger...and we are even larger. For your boyfriend to live within the tenderness of your heart. For him to hold his child, and for him to watch the nourishment that only a mother such as yourself can provide. This alone may melt the confines of his heart.
Show him the largeness of the world by transcending the smallness. Smile in the face of debate and angry communication. Be the largeness. Love works as water drops on eternity. Each drop adds to the slow erosion of walls that prevent our light from shining. Each drop is vital. Your every smile,every tender caress,every kind gesture, another drop added.

As Abraham Maslow said..." A self-actualized person is independent of the good oppinion of others."  Or more simply as a popular title suggests..."what you think of me is non of my bussiness." Be strong to the center of your hearts convictions...yet hold them loosely lest they strangle the hearts of others.

And last, a gift from Mother Theresa.


People are often unreasonable, illogical,
and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, People may accuse you
of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some
false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank,
people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone
could destroy overnight.
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
they  may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.


Love,
Eric
Mistletoe Angel
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10 posted 01-05-2005 07:49 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Personally, I'd prefer to date someone who shares, if not the same values as I do, values that circulate on the more progressive side of the political spectrum, just because it would indeed be a challenge to have an opposites-attract relationship now, and I don't think I'm all that up to it. Plus I am very passionate and verbal of my beliefs, so I'm worried I may accidentally offend her deeply when I speak my liberal politics out loud.

But then again, love is never meant to be easy. You should appreciate and accept as beauty many of the suprises it throws at you. So if I truly madly fell in love with a girl whose political beliefs were more to the right, and she loved me in return, and we were able to get beyond just the politics and love each other for who we are, I wouldn't let go of her. After all, my grandparents, although they voted Kerry, are on the right side of the political spectrum, where they support a gay marriage ban, the ban of abortion, and are against stem cell research, which my positions are opposite, and though we disagree and talk over these issues a lot, they are two people I love most of all in my life, and don't know where I'd be without their deep love for me!

So my answer would be I'd prefer to find someone who shares my progressive views, such as non-violence (against the war), environmental compassion and economical justice, but if I do fall head over heels for a girl who's more socially conservative or right-leaning, I would commit myself to try and see if the relationship can really work, and wouldn't let her go, for I believe regardless of difference, every girl should feel special and be loved for who she is. After all, if she felt the same way in return, I understand in her mind she cans ee past the differences as well politically and that she really needs me, she really wants me. And I would be selfish, I would be broken-hearted, if I just ditched her cold turkey like that just because she won't generally agree with me on social issues. No, I would devote myself to her and be faithful if she felt for me too, treat her like the goddess I always envision in my dreams.

Anyway, living in Portland, which is an intensely liberal city, I'm already certain that girl I meet will almost undoubtedly be a progressive.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
RSWells
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11 posted 01-05-2005 09:21 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

Any answer or resolution to this will only come with open and honest discussion. My politics I've made obvious and are similar to yours, my passion in my beliefs firm.

What I would recommend since you love him is to not skirt around this hoping it will go away and resolve itself. Solidify your knowledge on the issues that concern you and study both sides of each. When reason, facts and righteousness combine you may sway his opinions on these sticky subjects.

I've found that most Bush supporters/right wingers haven't given very much thought to the particulars and treat it more as a football fan backing "his team," the us against them mindset. Those who should know better and are informed and still remain on that side of the aisle are either profiting from what has happened or are closet haters. Good luck.
LeeJ
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12 posted 01-06-2005 08:55 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Isn't Love such that one would "encourage another's passions"...perhaps openly and honestly, if both step back and allow, you might have lots to share with each other, great things which will compliment both your lives....forever!
Denise
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13 posted 01-07-2005 08:30 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
I've found that most Bush supporters/right wingers haven't given very much thought to the particulars and treat it more as a football fan backing "his team," the us against them mindset. Those who should know better and are informed and still remain on that side of the aisle are either profiting from what has happened or are closet haters.


And what a fine example this is of the progressive, enlightened, open-minded, liberal perspective that all those Bush supporting right wing, uninformed and/or informed, profiteering, closet-haters should aspire to!

And all this time I thought they just had a different political worldview/perspective than the liberals. Silly me.

RSWells
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14 posted 01-07-2005 10:47 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

I'm very well informed and time will bear out what I say. Seems even today news breaks that Bush condoned torture. Seems he and his nominee both were quite a tag team in ignoring clemency pleas in sending more people to the death chamber than any other governor ever. There are little boxes that Texas authorities must check off when cause of death is asked for and the correct box is always "murder." Quite an admission for a "christian."

The problem with starched and safe suburban "conservatives" is when someone else with a strong voice stands up to them they can't handle it. They prefer their "liberals" milquetoast and are incensed when they can't shout an opposing voice down or disparage it with false claims to a moral high ground which often means nothing more than having select bible passages handy.
Denise
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15 posted 01-07-2005 11:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Well, I'm not starched or suburbanite, but I am conservative in my views, that much is true.

There's lots of disparaging and shouting going on that's true too, but it seems to me most of the ruckus is coming from the Left. Read your statement again and tell me whether that qualifies as wholesale disparagement of a majority of a group of people or not.

Bible verses? I live in Philadelphia. You could go to jail for waving those things around!
RSWells
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16 posted 01-08-2005 12:05 AM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

If we had an informed electorate, one that would have reached beyond a media overwhelmingly controlled by corporations or hugely influenced by Israel firsters, Bush would not have been elected (if indeed he was). There is no there there. He could not and did not run on his miserable record and instead sought to profit in the confusion of lies and distortions.

Bush faced the public less than any modern president. At the end there was hardly anyone who dare speak for him in the administration, since all were vulnerable themselves and when he had to attend the debates and stand alone (with perhaps an earpiece from Karl) we saw what he really was and it was an embarrassment.

Bin Laden attacked us from Afghanistan. He had some help from Iran (who have nukes) and Syria. Why are we in Iraq? Why were troops and resources diverted from the hunt for Bin Laden?

Since the WMD farce played out and excuse #2 Saddam was captured 948 US troops have been killed.

Iraq was neutered by 12 years of sanctions, was inundated by weapons inspectors and had a fly zone that would have crowded a fly (the rest of their skies were ours). Hussein could have been removed without ground troops.

As far as anger goes I'm in. Who at this late date would argue that Vietnam was a good idea? And look at the abused veterans who were roused in anger against Kerry, a man who served, to keep one who went well out of his not to serve in power. It was anger in the streets that stopped that war.

I had mucho discussions with many people who told me they were going to vote for Bush. When asked why half looked like they were constipated, a quarter more had the look of freshly stunned cattle.

It is the party of hate disguised in some quasi religiomania. Hate for all arabs, hate for blacks, hate for gays.

The electoral system is broken. Funky states with little population to justify their votes were incited by Rove the toad putting gay referendums on the ballot were the haters attempt to move their "base" to the polls. They couldn't count on Bush's draw alone. And gay anything wasn't an issue that should have been important enough to waste important public debate on. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/

What's changed? There are more gay theme shows on the boob tube now then three months ago. Hypochristians were used by cynics.

I hope we live long enough for the truth about the weak Bush's to come out. I have increasing reason to believe there's a tale about G.H.W. amd JFK that will blow the uninvolved/unconcerned away.

I mean no disrespect to you. I just learned early on to answer aggression with swift and certain greater aggression. No one kicks a dog twice that bit him the first time.

Americans don't pay attention and the cowed media no longer asks hard questions.
Denise
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17 posted 01-09-2005 05:27 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I guess I can only say that I am sad that you can dismiss the views and convictions of virtually an entire group of people who don't see things the way that you do by slandering them as uninformed and hateful. I've seen this sentiment too many times to say that it surprises me, but it does sadden me.
Local Parasite
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18 posted 01-09-2005 02:23 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

quote:
I think about it everyday, about how much it hurts me to know that he believes in some of these things.. That he thinks that his beliefs are right enough to take away the rights of other human beings who happen to live here... I can't seem to get over it.


Seems to me that you're the one who's letting her prejudices get in the way of making your relationship work, not the other way around.

I think the first step you'll have to take is to get over the "all republicans are heartless bigots" frame of mind and actually listen to what he has to say.  Otherwise, all you're going to ever think is that "who he is" relies on some unenlightened political view that's spread across the country like an epidemic.

Best of luck, though.
Brian

"God becomes as we are that we may be as he is."  ~William Blake

Mistletoe Angel
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19 posted 01-12-2005 01:07 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Though I agree with many of the sentiments of RSWells here, I also believe it unfair to label all Republicans at large as the hateful and closet hateful.

I believe the party itself is corrupt, and is indeed discriminating minorities, particularly gays, at the moment. Also it is important to note out about 4 in every 10 Americans believe the civil liberties of Muslim-Americans and Arab-Americans should be limited, a majority of which are opinions of the right.

I couldn't agree more with Richard about the shape of the media, from allowing all kinds of stereotypical gay-theme shows to leaning further to the right, suppressing anti-war and progressive views in the process.

And I absolutely agree how incredible and perplexing it is how we even went into Iraq in the first place.

But though I believe the party itself is corrupt (and yes, I believe the Democratic Party is pretty corrupt too) I believe there are many sensible Republicans out there. I believe one thing that is often misunderstood currently about the current party is the set of values and morals they adopt to. Traditional conservative values include solvency, fiscal responsibility and low governmental spending. The first four years under George W. Bush we witnessed greater spending than any Democratic president in history, which the Democratic Party is traditionally the party that spends more. Personal liberties is another thing traditional conservatism has always valued, which I find the Patriot Act and discrimination to contradict. Even as far as the military is concerned, traditionally conservatives are more reluctant to get involved overseas without a collective, unanimous coalition. The neoconservatives promote an aggressive foreign policy in contrast.

I just think the problem in general is the definition of conservatism in general. Rather than juxtaposing the two doctrines apart, the doctrines have rather been bleeded together purple, or the traditional values have just been whitewashed.

As it is, those with so-called "traditional conservative instincts" have mixed feelings on the war in Iraq. There's much dissent in that pocket in contrast to the neoconservative base.

Indeed the left is experiencing this same sort of disorganization as we speak as well. It seems those with differing instincts are divided now in all sorts of categories: Democrats, Greens, liberals, progressives. Democrats are seen as sellouts to progressives, the liberals seen as inferior to reform wishes than progressives, Greens are like the Super Democrats, etc. There's a lot of chasms there.

I don't think the parties themselves are the main problem here. I think it's rather the intense stereotypes and classism virus. And when you have one type of political class or genre that dominates and squeezes others out of the way, you're always bound to brood resentment, tension, and misunderstanding. And indeed I believe there is some oppression happening under this administration.

Do I believe all neoconservatives are hateful? No. I don't tolerate their foreign policy views as well as the tendency to bend religion to their will and use it as an excuse to discriminate other classes, but I believe, like all parties, they just need to sort themselves out, and they're just very misunderstood right now.

It's just the same with forming a relationship. Often you face struggles, and you have to accept them and sort everything out, and despite the obstacles, you can make a relationship last.

In final word, I very much agree with Richard's sentiments, but I believe we're just going about solving and clearing the misunderstandings the wrong way. Every week there's this group of protesters called the Tualatin Valley Skins that get out and even record their protests under the name TV Skinheads, carrying signs and summoning chants with the frequent use of "fascist" and "Nazi". That really saddens and disturbs me, as I distance myself from those types of protesters in that I feel they, themselves, aren't showing any class or reciting anything positive in tone that can actually persuade and build a community, which protesting should be about in my opinion. They have the right to do what they do, I just believe they're not going to persuade anyone by bringing back such words into chants that only bring back reviled memories of sorrow and bloodshed that infuse anger, hatred, misunderstanding and bad blood, and actually are the types of protesters that'll divide communities.

No, I believe protesting should be educational and promote a positive message to how you can give back to your community. I keep "fascist" out of my protest diction and I rather just report news stories related to war and peace in the world and say in an unscripted tone what must be done and how to do so or where you can go to do so. Should there be angst in these rallies and gatherings? Plenty. Should there be moral outrage? Definitely. But what I think is often lacking is that positive inviting message, which I actually consider the most important element to a successful protest.

(sigh) Sorry for my lengthy ramble. I feel very strongly about these issues, and, I don't know, I just feel expressing your anger to the guilty consciences should be the second priority always. The first priority should always be to see how you can give back to your community and be the change you want to see in the world. Especially when we're aware the media can't serve our needs, and until they do, it is our obligatory role to make sure our voice isn't a ghost on a windy day.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
RSWells
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20 posted 01-12-2005 10:00 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

Noah, a correction. I said only the ones who are informed, seemingly intelligent and still promote wrong way war, deny global warming, endorse death penalties, suppress truth with lies and attack for a lack of a digestable agenda are haters. Some profit from what's happening. Far too many are dupes, either through ignorance, apathy, laziness or at the direction of their church (for god's sake!), those tax free bastions of tribalistic hypocrisy.

I agree both parties are corrupt. Trust that our forefathers never intended for 280 million people to be represented by 50 millionaires in the Senate, 435 in the House.

Anyone who thinks this isn't going to break ugly is sleepwalking or prozac/zolofted up.
Kaoru
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21 posted 01-24-2005 04:13 AM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

Para - Perhaps I wasn't as clear.

I do not think he is a bigot, by no means. I think he's a verily intelligent man with strong personal beliefs.

I don't think our relationship is "not working" because of our political beliefs, I think it can and will cause some friction now and again, however.

I'm willing to accept his stance, but I'm not willing to give up mine because he doesn't agree.
serenity blaze
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22 posted 01-24-2005 05:18 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

My husband voted for David Duke.

I married him anyway.

and no, I ain't happy.

None of this seems to bother him a bit either.

sigh...

There will be things you never forget. I can forgive the women, but the votes?

They chafe.

Hugs, lady.

(Btw? I also know a couple, recently married, and the guy told me, "yanno? she ran a background check on me???"

He wasn't outraged, just surprised. She didn't want to know if he had a police record--she wanted to know his political affiliations.

However important that is to you--that's how important it be.

Hugs to Freyja, and yourself.
 
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