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She cryed Rape

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kissa~rachelle
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0 posted 07-28-2004 06:34 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle



My best freind ran away on this last wendesday, and didnt tell me or my other best freind Harriet.
Well, Yesterday, she called me from ehr grandparents. (Yesterday was my birthday mind you) She called to tell me that she had been raped. Yes. She called and told me about how she was raped, and then, she got on the phone with my step brother, who is visiting for the summer. My brother, whom she has met twice, to tell him about it also. She also called Darren, and J.T!

I'm, sorry, but there is somethin about that, that has got my little mind sayin I DONT THINK SO! Especially after she told me the story.

Basically i think, that she liked this 18 yr old guy, and he was giving her some illegal substances.
Then they ended up having intercourse twice, while she was staying with him, and then he see's that she had run away, and that there was a $500 reward, and so he turns her in for the money, and she gets pissed, and crys rape...

Anyways, the point is, is that it pisses me off, and yeah. I needed to vent. If you have any comments, tell me....

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

serenity blaze
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1 posted 07-28-2004 06:47 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

it's me again...hope you don't mind.

You don't say how old your friend is, but if she is a minor and that guy was not? tsk...she doesn't have to "cry rape"--according to the laws of the United States, I do believe they will cry rape for her.

As in statutory rape.

And if she is of the legal age of consent and she was intoxicated at the time of intercourse, in many states that is considered rape as well, as she was unable to grant consent.

Give your friend a bit of a break. She made a lot of bad choices already and may be having trouble dealing with the responsibility of that.

Life is confusing, but I think if you set your anger aside and offer some non-judgemental emotional support, that might help matters somewhat.

And take notes, m'friend.

It's easy to lose our way in this maze.

(I'm still working on it.)

Just my two cents with some hugs.
serenity blaze
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2 posted 07-28-2004 06:50 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Oh, I wanted to add, that this guy is at the very least guilty of contributing to the deliquancy of a minor.

and I'm kind of with you in the lack of sympathy department, except I don't have much for him either.
Dopey Dope
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3 posted 07-28-2004 09:39 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Bah

lets put it like this...

SHE ran away
SHE had sex with him with consent

She did what she wanted...
she seems like a very confused and minipulative girl if she's going to cry rape when it didn't happen.
That is NOT cool

ok he gave her some drugs.....well drugs are bad, mmmkay....but that really doesn't add to the situation because SHE accepted them and once again displays that SHE is doing what she wants, when she wants, how she wants.

Turning her in- GOOD!
He did the right thing.....you know? He turned in a girl that had ran away from home. Forget the money, he might have done it anyway. I mean, what 18yr old wants a run away girl under his care? An 18yr old can't even take care of himself...

The problem is that she's a liar. It's all her fault, not his.

I'm on the guys side completely.

The narcotics doesn't mean he is an evil human being, and having sex with a younger girl doesn't either (unless you're 42yrs old or some really exaggerated age like that).

The problem is the girl.
I completely sympathize for the guy.

I left my wallet in El Segundo...
And I gotta get it
I got got to get it!

Ron
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4 posted 07-28-2004 11:16 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

How would you feel, Javier, if you found out the girl was eight years old?

Why is there a difference, in your mind, between and 18-year-old and a 42-year old? Both are able to make legally binding decisions. An eight-year-old child isn't. Neither is a seventeen-year-old child.

The girl may or may not be culpable, depending on the circumstances. The boy definitely is culpable, irrespective of the circumstances. Because that is what it means to be an adult.
Dopey Dope
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5 posted 07-28-2004 11:40 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Well first off, an 8yr old is completely different from say...a 16-17yr old.
If the 18yr old would have done this to an 8yr old the circumstances would have been very different along with my reactions.

I also think that if a girl WILLINGLY consents a 42yr old man instead of an 18yr old boy, that also is different.

No doubt the boy is more responsible for his actions because, yeah, he's 18...he's a legal adult....

but the girl most definitely put herself in the situation where she accepted his come-on's.... putting herself in the situation doesn't mean I would think "oh hey, well its her fault she was raped cuz she was wearing a short skirt, drank a bit, and kissed the guy on his lips"...
it's a little more than just that.

She willingly ran away, willingly had sex with the guy, and was pissed off when he turned her in for running away.

At least- that is what I get from the original post.

All i am saying is that

1. the boy isn't evil because he was 18 and she was....16-17? (she said yes MORE than once)

2. the boy isn't evil because he shared whatever he shared. Although it isn't legal, and it isn't looked good upon...the girl willingly took them. And who's to say she had sex WHILE on those substances...

3. The girl screamed rape only after he had turned her in

WHat man in his right mind would rape a girl, and turn her in to her parents for $500 AFTER the rape?

telling a girl "hush hush" won't stop her from screaming.

I think she was bitter, and she wanted to get him back for turning her in (cuz she ran away)...and WHO would believe a "druggie, irresponsible 18yr old" anywayz?

I do not take a girls stance simply because she is a girl, nor do I take her stance because she is defenseless in this male dominated world.

She was definitely able minded enough to minipulate the situation to make HIM look bad. "Oh no mommy, yeah I ran away, but the rape was so much more worse. Direct all your attention to the rape." ........ meanwhile "that'll teach HIM for turning me in!"

That's it.

im just looking on the other side.
I may have this all wrong, but there's always two sides to the story.



"One good thing about music: when it hits you feel no pain"- Bob Marley
~I am Trance~
hush
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6 posted 07-29-2004 12:44 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'WHat man in his right mind would rape a girl, and turn her in to her parents for $500 AFTER the rape?

telling a girl "hush hush" won't stop her from screaming.'

Um... but telling a girl "Look, you ran away, you took drugs, who's going to believe you anyway?" might... or at least this guy might have thought it would.

Besides... a lot of girls and women who are raped don't go "screaming" rape... it's very sad, because victims shouldn't have to feel shame in the situation, but how can you say "Someone took away my control of my own body" without feeling ashamed, without feeling helpless?

I guess what makes me mad is everyone assuming she consented to have sex... maybe she is making the whole story up... but then again, maybe she isn't... but this type of "she was asking for it" or "she's just bitter and making it up" reaction is why so many women clam up in the face of the real thing...

and for that I blame both the pople who don't take rape claims seriously, and the women who make them for such selfish reasons. It's partially their fault that people who've suffered the real thing are disregarded if a circumstance seems off, or if she was foolish enough to go to a frat party by herself... and we end up with situations where people are sympathizing with a guy they don't even know based on a second-hand recollection? *shakes head*
Ron
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7 posted 07-29-2004 01:06 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Javier, the hypothetical eight-year-old might have been just as willing and accommodating as your supposed 16- or 17-year-old. That's doesn't matter to us, though, because we know a pre-teen simply isn't mature enough to make those kinds of decisions. Well, guess what? The 16- or 17-year-old isn't mature enough either. Her willingness, whether to have sex or buy her own house or join the Marines, is completely irrelevant.

In my opinion, she won't be old enough at eighteen, either, but my opinion doesn't count for much in the scheme of things. The line has to be drawn somewhere. When a person crosses that magical line and becomes an adult, they assume the responsibilities for their own decisions. They can vote. They can enter into legally binding contracts. They can fight and die in the military. AND they can be prosecuted for taking advantage of those still unable to make those decisions for themselves.

Where you contend she was "able minded enough to manipulate the situation," I would say she acted childishly. Because that's precisely what she is.

An adult, whether 18 or 42, can't be allowed to take advantage of the willingness of a child, whether 8 or 17. The line has been drawn, and while it may be arbitrary, it sure ain't no big secret. Adults, young or old, who ignore the line will be called upon to pay the price for their decisions. That, after all, is what it means to BE an adult.
Dopey Dope
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8 posted 07-29-2004 02:46 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

I am not saying that she deserved it, hush.
Never did I ever say that, but you implied I did....oh well.

I see what you are saying Ron, but I still do not agree with her behavior (if this, in fact, was NOT rape).

Yes the boy is responsible because he passed the magical line into adulthood...

but regardless of which I find it kind of odd, and really hilarious how if my birthday is march 22 and im 17 and its march 21...i cant do anything legally binding- but i can have a girlfriend and such, date women and the like, but once the stroke of midnight hits and I have sex with a young girl around my age, I am comitting an act of rape.

Im pointing out that that is just absurd in so many ways.

I am sympathizing with the guy ONLY because of what that kind of lie can do to a persons reputation if he didn't do it.

Anywayz- no one can be sure of what actually happened. So this discussion can go on eternally and I'll still stand by my opinion.

Either way- i have read your replies and I agree with some points COMPLETELY, but I still have my views that the lie (if it is a lie) should not have been told like that.

Rape is a serious matter, not to be played with.

It shouldnt be committed, and it shouldn't be lied about.

"One good thing about music: when it hits you feel no pain"- Bob Marley
~I am Trance~

kissa~rachelle
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9 posted 07-29-2004 09:16 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle

Okay....

She was 15. She had sex with him, before the rape happened, willingly. She was drunk when she had sex with him the first time....

The second, wich is the one where he supposedly raped her, she was coming off of some pills she had taken the day before. Ecstasy, and volume.

I agree whith Dopey, to a certain extent. I think she had sex with him, and knew that she could pin him with rape, and was pissed that he had turned her in, and would've rather had the cash then her.
Thats just me....

You just cant "get over" rape like that. She told me from her own mouth that she was over it, and that she was fine. during the whole time she was telling me what heppened, she did not even sound the least bit scared, ashamed, or even hurt that he had "raped" her. She was jsut so fine with everything that had "supposedly hapened."

She was so fine with it, she got on the phone whith my brother, and told him. Hse likes my bro, and he is almost 16, and she has only met him twice, because he lives in Texas.

The whole thing is for attention, and like Dopey said.. to throw her parents attention to something other than the fact that she  had ran away...

I love Lyndsay, but i cant keep getting myself into trouble over her, and beleiving everything she says. she has lied to me way to many times about things as important as this, why should i beleive her now??? I dunno. It's just not worth it anymore. I keep trying and trying to get her to care, to help herself out, and stop smokin weed and poppin pills, and all of the stuff that got her in this position in the first place... she neds more help than i can givve her.

Kissa

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

Susan
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10 posted 07-30-2004 12:03 AM       View Profile for Susan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan

Kissa,

You nailed it.  She needs more help than you can give her.  What you can give her, however, is compassion.  When you're messed up, you make bad decisions, and they compound upon one another until you have made yourself an impassable mountain.  Though you cannot fix things for her, nor can you allow her to abuse your friendship, open your heart to understand that she is suffering and in trying to understand that she is, like us all, human and desirous to be happy, this will free your soul from your resentment and anger with her and in doing so, you will both benefit.  

Susan

Happiness isn't something that happens to you, it's created from within you.  Joy is a state of mind.

Dopey Dope
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11 posted 07-30-2004 02:26 AM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

So she was under the influence of alcohol the first time they had sex....

ok

and just to inform, the day after "X", "E", or whatever you'd like to call it....... it does not impaire your judgement. I've done research on that for school. The day after is a complete downer, if anything... not something that messes with your head to aid in the process of making a wrong decision.
If anything, the opposite...you just want to sleep and get the day over with (as i have read).

Im glad to see that the minipulative undertones I interpreted could be correct, however, on the other hand, its pretty sad that she has to do that in the first place.

No idea what you yourself could do to aid anyone in this situation, but good luck and definitely always support the truth

"One good thing about music: when it hits you feel no pain"- Bob Marley
~I am Trance~

spritrider87
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12 posted 07-30-2004 10:55 AM       View Profile for spritrider87   Email spritrider87   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for spritrider87

okay thia is a really bad subgect with me but i have to say something. dopeyd you did implie that she deserved it or thats what i gat out of your replies. and wether or not she had sex with him befor doesnt matter. thats how a lot of girls get confused. when they are told becase they did it willingly befor whatever they say now wont matter. it does matter. it matters too much. and in some cases the girls cant deal with it. i almost couldnt and i wasn't and drugs or anything when it happened. but luckly i had friends that cared enough to see past everything and realize i was hurting and i was hurting bad. i know i cant say anything to make youguys chang your mind about her. but please dont blame her. not even a little. because that will get in the way when she starts looking for help when she cant handel things anymore. anyways thats all i'm going to say and im now going to go hide in a corner somewhere and mentaly kick myself for even putting this up much less thinking about it.

"I am the bringer of darkness. A shadow in the dark. I prey on the. The child of the lost souls. I hunger for the love of one unknown. The one to reve

Dopey Dope
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13 posted 07-31-2004 06:12 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

I didn't imply it was her fault

because, like the original poster said (and from I got from the post), i don't think she got raped.

So i couldn't have possibly thought it was her fault because I don't believe that she was raped to begin with.

I don't want to piss anyone off, but I definitely don't want any of you to get the wrong idea from what I was saying

"One good thing about music: when it hits you feel no pain"- Bob Marley
~I am Trance~

Juju
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14 posted 07-31-2004 09:34 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I agree with ron only I want add one more thing, 16 year olds are immature and can't make good desicions. Thats why they have statuary rape rule. Secondly, Alcohole is a depressent, it depresses the function of the body. She could of denied it, but was too out of it to do any thing, Thirdly she could of been under the enfluence of other drugs, Fourthly She IS going through what is called denial. She thinks she is over it and says it over and over to make her and other poeple beleive it.  I met a girl who was date raped. She used the turm "I am over it now" But you knew she was really messed up.  I made a post about this earlier in philosoghy, and it wasn't philosoghy more then questioning society.

This is My philosophy and what I said to the guys who said this "In life you make choses, you chose whether to rob a bank, sexually harass a waitress, it doesn't matter what they were, what they do or don't do. You make the choice of what kind of person you are and will be. The guys that rape girls, because they can't fight back, are still rapist.

I wrote a poem about it look for it......


Juju  
Ron
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15 posted 07-31-2004 09:47 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Dopey, you're being defensive instead of proactive. At fifteen years old, it's rape. Period. End of discussion.

But even if she was twenty-five, as far as I'm concerned it would still be rape if she SAID it was rape. That's the only criteria that matters, and the guy should be hung out to dry. Men who think that's unfair or too harsh should probably be a little more careful where they find their pleasures. If a guy doesn't know a girl well enough to predict her behavior then he doesn't know her well enough to be sleeping with her. Going to jail is about the least of the repercussions he might face.

Lest someone think I'm picking on the guys, I also believe a fifteen-year-old girl who takes drugs and sleeps around should have her freedom severely contained. Not as a punishment, but as a precaution against her ruining her entire life. Military school would be ideal, a nunnery would suffice, and I'd even opt for prison in the right state. The path to self-destruction for our children is too often an expressway with hidden off-ramps. The least we can do is put in a few rest stops along the way. One kid in fifty might actually find an off-ramp before they get back up to freeway speeds.


LoveBug
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16 posted 08-01-2004 07:26 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

She was 15 and he was 18.. thats illegal, so I'm not going to say anything more about THAT situation.

I do want to say, though, in OTHER situations, where a person isn't raped and later claims that they are, it hurts victims everywhere. If a person concents to a sexual act and then, AFTER the act, says it was rape, I don't believe it was rape. Rape, to me, is when one person has sex with another person without the person's consent, or if the person is unable (a child, mentally disabled, esc..) to concent. (also notice that I didn't cite a gender for either party)

And, just throwing this up for discussion.. what is the difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old? Both are still young.. in my state, the age of concent is 16, which means that it isn't statatory rape if the other party isn't more than 5 years older than the minor. Any thoughts on that?

Kissa, I hope you and your friend's situation works out. She needs a lot of help with her drug problems, among the others. You seem to be a good friend.

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee
kissa~rachelle
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17 posted 08-04-2004 07:50 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle

Thnk you guys for the comments...I still dont know if i beleive her, but you guys have put everything into perspective for me...i think i may open my mind a little, and just give her the benefit of the doubt, atleast for now. Thanks again.

Karissa

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

kissa~rachelle
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18 posted 08-04-2004 07:51 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle

Thnk you guys for the comments...I still dont know if i beleive her, but you guys have put everything into perspective for me...i think i may open my mind a little, and just give her the benefit of the doubt, atleast for now. Thanks again.

Karissa

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

Dopey Dope
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19 posted 08-06-2004 01:24 AM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

All im saying is: if it wasn't rape, rape meaning she didn't want to have sex with him, then it wasn't rape.

Im not going to think of these invisible rules that people follow, cuz I follow them too.....

but if a girl I decide to have sex with- while her consenting to have sex with me....and this is AGREED upon (no matter the age).....and later, out of some hissy fit with her family she decides to call me out to rape-

Sorry folks- but i say that is wrong.


This is only given the circumstance that sex was concensual, and that rape did NOT occur.

Falsifying rape is Bad

that was my ultimate point.

"One good thing about music: when it hits you feel no pain"- Bob Marley
~I am Trance~

SEA
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20 posted 08-06-2004 10:12 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

my oldest is 15. If an 18 year old boy messed with her, whether she wanted him to or not....I'd destroy his life. Period. She is in NO WAY capable of making that kind of choice. I wouldn't care if she ran away from home, did drugs, none of it. That would come AFTER I dealt with the rape.
And no matter how you slice it, it would be rape.

Kissa, how can you even say she is your friend? You definately aren't hers with the way you are talking about her. You weren't there, bottom line. You have no idea what happened.

Sex with a minor is against the law for a reason. They call it rape, for a reason.

and maybe just maybe she is saying she is "over it" to try to appear like she isn't some helpless victim, when that is what she may feel like inside.

I feel sorry for her, in any case. I feel sorry for the young man too. He made some really stupid choices here as well. The fact is he knew when he turned 18 that girls younger than him (at least the ones under 18) were off limits. 18 isn't a magical age of enlightenment where we suddenly are so smart, and understand everything. You are still very young and immature, but you are in fact, a legal adult at that point. It's a responsibility we all face.


and for the record? if it were an 18 year old girl, messing with my son when he is 15? She would be hung out to dry...it would be NO different for me.

kissa~rachelle
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21 posted 08-06-2004 02:40 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle

I appreciate your comments, but SEA, please do not ever say that i am not her freind...

You werent their either. You werent there when she did freeon,and passed out, and i had to call her dad, knowing i would get into trouble also, you werent there all the times she was so wasted she could barely walk, so i took her home, and helped her sneak back into her window, and i ended up getting into trouble, because i was out so late. You weerent there all the times she lied to me. you also werent there for when she made out and had sex with my boyfreind either. So do not ever call me a bad freind! Those were just some of the things she has done to me over the past year, and i forgave her and helped her through every single one. i know her. That is why i am not so sure if she is telling the truth, because the truth is not one of her specialties...

Karissa

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

SEA
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22 posted 08-06-2004 03:14 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

if she has done all these bad things to you, why are you hanging out with her?! And if you are doing these things too, then girl you deserve to get in trouble. I had to learn it the hard way, that if you hang out with kids doing bad things, you will get in trouble too. Sorry, I do understand, but I'm older now and have learned that one....and yep, it was a tough one. If she is so horrible and all that, all I am saying is why are you running with her? Cut her loose already and be done. Otherwise, if you are her friend quit talking so badly about her and be there for her.

"You werent there when she did freeon,and passed out, and i had to call her dad, knowing i would get into trouble also, you werent there all the times she was so wasted she could barely walk, so i took her home, and helped her sneak back into her window, and i ended up getting into trouble, because i was out so late. You weerent there all the times she lied to me. you also werent there for when she made out and had sex with my boyfreind either."

ummm hello? these are really bad things......sounds like you need help too....
kissa~rachelle
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23 posted 08-06-2004 06:34 PM       View Profile for kissa~rachelle   Email kissa~rachelle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kissa~rachelle

The point is...I dont hang out with her anymore. I have no sympathy left for her, and no trust. I am still her friend, and if she calls and needs to talk, i will be there, but i still really am not sure if i beleive she was raped.

And for the record, those nights i got into trouble for being out so late, helping her back into her house, she called me, and i didnt drink. I also didnt do freeon. I do admit, i used to do some pretty hard core things, but i quit, and i was trying to help her do the same. I apreciate your input, but i must say, you have got it all wrong. I am not bad mouthing her, or talking bad about her, i am simply writting how i feel, and if you think that i was being harsh, or not being a freind to her, well then i am sorry. I think the best help i can provide for her now, is time to think, and figure out her priorities.

It has taken me a while to figure out, that i cant help her. She has to help herself. So that is what i am letting her do.

Karissa

I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling

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24 posted 08-06-2004 09:02 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

then that is the best thing to do. I wasn't trying to be mean hon, just honest. I'm glad you aren't doing those things anymore. I'm glad you are cooling it with her. Sounds like she is messed up and needs more help, than you can give her. You don't have to believe her, just know that there are always two sides to the story, then there is the truth, and only those two know what that is. Whether or not they actually tell it....??? Who knows? Most times, the truth has a way of coming to light. Please know that I wasn't perfect growing up either, the important thing is that we learn. And hopefully the lessons aren't too painful...
 
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