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Passions in Poetry

Thoughts on Passions Poets Leaving

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Mistletoe Angel
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City of Roses


0 posted 01-25-2004 09:43 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



As most of you here have noticed, we sure have seen our share of announcements in Announcements and Links of some Passions members, some of which have had long runs here, abruptly leaving.



What do you make of this? Is it just ones own decision or is it something deeper than this, perhaps somes overall feel of how these forums are operating and their appeal to a certain audience! Personally, I find it saddening and after reading Aenimal's farewell just now, that sounded like a siren to me, with such strong words he had of "horrors and hypocrisy of a totalitarian regime further threaten to crush the wonder and belief" of poets like himself.



I admit a few times in the past I wanted to leave this place also, originally receiving only one or two comments a poem and being harrassed by a couple poets here, but then I came to realize how I should be proud of my own poetry above everyone else and I'd accept the number of comments I get and ignore those who don't appreciate what I write. And NEVER did I almost leave before because I felt the forums were tilted toward one audience more than another, as I never felt that.

Personally I cannot see this "regime" at all. Do you? What do you think is happening?



Love,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Denise
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Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
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1 posted 01-25-2004 10:06 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't know, Noah, I don't see it either.

Generally, I don't think that there is anything that can't be talked out and worked through. In my mind the only thing hindering that would be someone not having the desire to talk and work things out if there are misundestandings of some sort?

Well, Passions won't be everyone's cup of tea. There are many sites to choose from if someone is truly unhappy here.

I wish them all whatever it is that they are looking for.
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


2 posted 01-25-2004 11:24 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

If someone thinks they should leave, they're probably right.
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


3 posted 01-26-2004 12:17 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's not difficult to make ambiguous statements....

People are different - have different tastes, different motivations, different tolerances. Christopher said it best...
KristieSue
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4 posted 01-26-2004 08:44 AM       View Profile for KristieSue   Email KristieSue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit KristieSue's Home Page   View IP for KristieSue

Negativity breeds much more quickly than positivity.  One negative comment can 'whisper down the alley' and have more people having complaints than ever.  Although I know some people have a right to be unhappy about certain things, I don't think it's right to up and leave.  (Personal opinion).  IF someone has a problem, try to work it out between you and that (those) person(s).  If that can't be done, talk to Ron.  If your problem still can't be worked out, well dang the bad luck.  We are mostly adults here, and if people can't stick to the reason they ORIGINALLY came here for...well then, like Chris said....

gonna miss em' though

"Painting is poetry which is seen and not heard, and poetry is a painting which is heard but not seen." ~Leonardo da Vinci

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


5 posted 01-26-2004 09:38 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

I agree with Christopher and Balladeer, and I don't think we should be begging anyone to stay...
If they have made up their mind and feel the need to announce it, then that should be their choice...

Even if we are sorry to see them go.

M
Michelle_loves_Mike
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Pennsylvania


6 posted 01-26-2004 09:41 AM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

different strokes, for different folks
Michelle

I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


7 posted 01-26-2004 11:07 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

99% of the time...the only thing "wrong with this place" is the poet's behavior. Ron built the rooms ... we are the ones who decorate it and accessorize it.
We are also the ones who trash it and stink it up.

Dramatic exits have always been a part of pips ... as have those who always push the envelope of the house rules.  Some leave on their own, some have to be showed the door. Some come back with aliases and the games begin again.
Some that should leave, don't, they stay and undermine Ron's authority, question his rules, attack moderators and reply to others poetry in ways that spread their arrogant personal agendas. Yet they continue to post their poetry in same place they act rude, disrespectful in and claim mistreatment. I have always found such irony in that ... I guess their egos need those replies more than they want to stand up for what they believe?

In the end the ones who are sincerely here for the love of poetry -- not just the sound of their own voice, personal agendas, or to play cyber games ... those will be the ones that learn from their mistakes and that will grow as writers.
Most of us here, myself included, have made mistakes, posted something we regretted later, or reacted overemotionally in a way we later wished we wouldn't have. If we learned from it and grew as a person...then it will have meant something.

Some learn ... some dont ...

I guess that's why doors swing both ways, huh????

~~~~

"Welcome to the hotel California...
you can check out anytime you like ... but you can never leave."

Eagles


"dont go away mad ... just go away"

daffy duck to bugs bunny
Looney Tunes  

wintertao
Member
since 11-17-2003
Posts 371
Okaloosa Island, FL


8 posted 01-26-2004 12:00 PM       View Profile for wintertao   Email wintertao   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wintertao

Checking in with some follow-up thoughts...

I still read alot of poetry on PiP because there are some great poets here. I belong to 1/2 dozen poetry sites and each one is different, each has strengths and areas for improvement. I can't speak for others, but I will just elaborate a bit and hope this in some small way helps.

I love to give and recieve critique on some, but not all of my  and others poetry. I initially thought PiP had a good system setup, where you check a flag in public and put a Critique message if you desire. In theory that works great. I choose not to check the flag, and put the poetry I did want critique in the critique room. I then went out to explore PiP. My initial impression was that the main poetry board was moving way to fast, which I still hold to this day. Many excellent pieces of poetry roll off with just a couple or sometimes even just one reply. While many other great poems rack up 10, 15, 20+ replies. I've never seen that kind of disparity on a main poetry board.

When I began to critique poetry in Open I quickly found out that just because someone has the critique flag checked doesn't mean they want critique. I often felt "jumped on" when I offered a critique. When I began to receive strange e-mail I stopped all together.

The critique room itself is often a ghost town, which is also very strange for a medium - large poetry site. As I type this there are many, many poems sitting in ca with zero replies that have been there 3, 4, 5 up to 10 days.

So thats basically it...PiP is a GREAT poetry site just the way it is. Like every poetry site I have ever visited, it could also be better. Some practical suggestions:

Set out a clear policy for critique in open and put it on a sticky at the top of the page so everyone  is, pardon the pun, on the same page.

Look into setting up some new rooms like:

oriental room for haiku, etc.

just for love poems.

and ecourage use, as well of the alt rooms currently on PiP like ca, dark, corner.

Anything that can be done to help lessen the load on the open poetry room, and help address the disparity of replies and the great poetry rolling off with just a couple in a few hours, should be tried.

The petty personal "crap" is just that and all you can do is try to set down clear guidelines everyone does (or should) understand, such as critique in open. After that, well, people will disagree and sometimes get petty even in paradise.

Again, I love PiP - it's a great site. The fact that this thread was even put up and your talking is a great sign.

Maybe PiP just stays the way it is, and thats great too. The printing of the books is rare and special. When I posted I was alone at Christmas I recieved many wonderful replies. There is alot to like about PiP.
Mistletoe Angel
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9 posted 01-26-2004 12:51 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



I absolutely agree with what y'all had to say! We all have preferences and we desire to have them met and satisfied.



Still, what about the "regime" belief a few who recently left had? Do you think there really is one, or is it all just in their heads? Cause personally I am not seeing it at all. As far as poetic forms, beliefs, spiritualities, politics, and rules are concerned, I do not see one side overwhelming another. We all have our own opinions and ideas, but I don't see any suppression of sorts. What do you think?

Love,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


10 posted 01-26-2004 12:59 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

"I then went out to explore PiP. My initial impression was that the main poetry board was moving way to fast, which I still hold to this day. Many excellent pieces of poetry roll off with just a couple or sometimes even just one reply. While many other great poems rack up 10, 15, 20+ replies. I've never seen that kind of disparity on a main poetry board"

but you can set your viewing page to 200 and  then it is very hard to miss anyone's new poems..besides  Ron has the todays topics so there is no excuse to miss any if you have the time..  the numbers of responses mean nothing...  although 0-2  is a sad thing..but there may be reasons for it as I have had some that just went nowhere...and it probably was my own fault..the poem maybe  was  distasteful or not anything anyone wanted to reply to. But that doesn't mean it isn't read.

Some of us I guess need more feedback or attention than others...so it is up to  the individual why they are here...and why they stay here or choose to leave.
And if  you are on many other poetry sites then I can see why you can't keep up. Some of us are here and only here for many reasons.

There are slower forums..the Dark, spiritual and the corner pub...but then  some would complain that they are too slow... a site like this cannot please everyone but it does have many  individual foums to  place your poetry in...I for one, don't see the need for a haiku one.. or love one..what then will be in open..I think you can tell by titles what a poem  will be about and if not, well then sometimes we are in for a nice surprise.

M

I am all for improvements..but if  everyone who didn't like the way it is would have their way, we would be no different here than a hundred other poetry sites that are surviving but not as successful... and not as comfortable to post in. Just my opinion.
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


11 posted 01-26-2004 01:34 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I am firm believer in this concept: If you are going to leave a website, just leave, don't announce it. If there are certain individuals you want to let your intentions be known to, email them privately.

I am going to miss Raph, since we seem to have just recently cleared the air between us, and he was fast becoming a much needed ally of mine during all of  all those religious discussions where I constantly find myself clearly outnumbered.  

Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


12 posted 01-26-2004 01:36 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

btw...

Noah, what type of guitar is that? It looks like an Ovation acoustic.
Mistletoe Angel
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13 posted 01-26-2004 05:56 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



(smiles) Wow, Opeth, you're right on! Yes indeed it is! I also have a Diamond Series Schecter! Are you a musician youself, Opeth? I do recall the underground metal band Opeth, not sure if you are affliated with the group or not.



Love,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Krawdad
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since 01-03-2001
Posts 2627


14 posted 01-26-2004 09:28 PM       View Profile for Krawdad   Email Krawdad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Krawdad

Interesting question, Noah.
Those most likely to offer an answer have left, I suspect.
I have no idea why these people are leaving, other than their stated reasons, which I take on face value.
I'm not at all sure that I want to know any more than that.
However, since there are talented writers among them, not to mention those other folks who have left quietly, I would like to know where they are going.  I think their writing is still worth reading and supporting.
But I suppose they don't care to leave a trail.
Too bad.
scorpio
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since 10-02-2002
Posts 5709
right...there


15 posted 01-27-2004 08:41 AM       View Profile for scorpio   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for scorpio

I find it strange that some make a public show of leaving and yet refuse to discuss the reasons behind their decision.  Wouldn't it just be better to disappear quietly... leaving not tracks?

believe in what your heart feels...

McLean
Member
since 01-05-2004
Posts 496
state of marital bliss


16 posted 01-27-2004 10:33 AM       View Profile for McLean   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for McLean

I agree with you, scorpio!  Seems like an attention needer...craving to know that somehow, someone, somewhere will just crumble over their disappearance.

my two cents

McLean
LoveBug
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17 posted 01-27-2004 12:47 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Hey.. I haven't been around much, but I do read more than I reply, and I've seen some of the things that our departing members have said. I suppose they're saying that they feel as if they are being 'stifled' by our rules or something similar. If that is the case, then yes, perhaps it's best that they do leave. I mean, I can understand that people write poetry that break the reasonable rules here... I have. It's part of expression. But there ARE rules here. Anyone can read these poems and get the wrong idea. Whenever I write a questionable poem, I don't post it. It's not A BIG DEAL! I never posted *everything* I wrote anyway. Other than the fact that some may have been inappropriate, I never liked to post too much. I didn't want to impose or take away from the others who were posting here. (I think being considerate would help in these kinds of situations as well, but anyway)

Another issue may be the fact that some poems have no replies and some poems have 30 replies. That will happen. That has happened to me several times. Personally, I'd rather have one good , well thought out reply than 20 "Good poem! *SMILEY*". Although such encouragement is good, I think that our poetry deserves a little more. I dont always write out a long reply, but I DO actually give some evidence that I've read it. Also.. I 'm not saying this is the case with everyone, but if you replied to others work more, you would probably recieve more replies to your own.

I love everybody here, but there are rules. Be reasonable. It isn't that hard.   

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


18 posted 01-27-2004 01:57 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Re: number of replies.  Don't forget that on some poems, those numbers include the thanks of the poet.  So, don't look at numbers.

Look at the quality of the poem, and decide for yourself.  
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


19 posted 01-27-2004 02:18 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I enjoy Opeth's music very much, but am not affiliated with the group.

Yes, I do play guitar & bass, some drums, which I may start up again. Have you seen those new computer playing drumkits? You can practice in quiet or hook them up to your computer soundcard or studio and play as loud as your speakers can handle. I think I may get me a set like that.

I own a acoustic-electric Washburn cutaway guitar, a Morgan Monroe acoustic-electric bass, a Galveston (made in the same factory as Gibson/Epiphone) semi-hollowbody jazz guitar with dual humbuckers and a "tree of life" fretboard inlay. I play whenever possible.

Greeneyes
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Member Patricius
since 09-09-2000
Posts 10848
In Your Poetic Mind


20 posted 01-27-2004 07:33 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

Amen to all

and to Janet Maries statement!

I lie awake at night
I reach out to touch
Feel you by my side
I reach I never feel you
Will I ever get to feel you again
Just one more time

Paula Finn
Member Ascendant
since 06-17-2000
Posts 5525
missouri


21 posted 01-29-2004 12:24 PM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

I think most people who leave just need time for themselves. Its real easy to get wrapped up in this world and forget there is a REAL world out there. Sometimes it slaps you and reminds you to breathe. But I also think some people leave because they don't get the recognition they think they deserve, or they get involved with a fellow poet and it turns out bad. So if they need to leave...thats between them and them.
Kaoru
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since 06-07-2003
Posts 3888
where the wild flowers grow


22 posted 01-29-2004 06:49 PM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

I am a close friend and soul to those who have left. Squirrel, Raph, Wind are all wonderful people and poets. I have accepted their choice to leave and their personal reasons why.

Just like it's already been said..they felt like they did not belong here, and they left. Good luck to them and I'll continue to be a friend to them. Of course!
Tais
Member
since 01-28-2004
Posts 76
Ontario, Canada


23 posted 01-30-2004 08:30 AM       View Profile for Tais   Email Tais   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Tais's Home Page   View IP for Tais

Hello to all!

I am new here, so I can't really say much, except for what happened this morning.

I made a few comments on poems - which were wonderful, they touched my heart - and a comment on critque. But then, I wanted to share with all, a poem I wrote about God (God speaks through nature). It appeared in the inspirational forum, but then was gone after a couple of seconds.
I then posted a comment, asking if anyone knows where it went, but that post was also gone in seconds.

I had also posted two days ago an invitation to a valentine's contest on my board, with the intention of having lots of love messages for this valentines, and giving a gift for the most touching one.
I didn't know if I could do that or not because my intention was not to advertise, it was to share and promote poetry and poets. That's all.
I confess that I thought it had been deleted. But it hasn't. Thank you for letting me post it there.
It if had been deleted, I would also understand and respect that decision.
But when I posted today, and my posts would not appear, I thought that maybe I have been banned from posting, and thought it might have something to do with the invitation post for valentine's I did.

If I am wrong, and I wasn't banned from posting, and it's only a slight problem of delay in appearing (the system sometimes might be a bit slow when we post)...then I need to apologize for having jumped to conclusions.

But if I was really banned from posting, and can only reply to posts, then I will need to leave. Why? Because I think it can be seen by my posts, that I will obey rules, and I mean no harm. And if that wasn't understood about me, then I don't no of any other way to express about me...I've tried to in my posts, so that you know that my intentions are good.
I believe in a certain 'freedom' for members as 'people', not just as members.
And I believe in promoting other people's work and talents.

I also do understand that sometimes, posts should be screened, when the poster is considered a bit suspicious.

But please don't consider me as a supicious poster. I do obey rules, and I do understand. But I also know that you don't know me, so stay on the safe side....I understand that too.

But one of the main rules of this site, is for the members to be tolerant of other people's beliefs and comments.
I hope this works both ways: members and administration.

I think you are all wonderful people, very talented, and this site is so organized and we can tell that lots of hard work has been put into it. Congatualtions for the wonderful work!

But I also ask that - we new members - please be seen as 'people' also, not just as new members. A place to share the work of poetry is a place to consider all as poets, whether considered good or bad ones, whether considered new or not new members,  we all have one thing in common: the love for poety. And that brings us together in somewhat the same level, without distinguishing that one is better or more important than the other.
If we are seen as and considered in certain "categories" or levels, then we are not posting our work for others to enjoy and help us in improving, we are being passed through test to become or not part of a gang. That happens in this world we live in, but should not happen in a place where we come to relax, enjoy and learn. I am not saying that it happens here...as I said, I am new here...but I am just bringng that to the attention of us all, so that we are careful it doesn't happen in this wonderful place of escape from the so brutal world outside.

I sometimes don't use the correct words, but I hope my thoughts were expressed correctly here.

Take care,

and God bless,

Tais
Ladycat
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since 07-05-99
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At the edge and a doorway,TX


24 posted 01-30-2004 09:13 AM       View Profile for Ladycat   Email Ladycat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ladycat's Home Page   View IP for Ladycat

I will say what I always say when someone is leaving someone or something. Farewell forever friend, may safe journeys in life always lead you home.

You never know. I have left for long periods of time and none of it ever had to do with Passions at all. It was life in general. I just didn't have time to be here. I would still come back from time to time.

It has always been this way though. What ever your reason for leaving know that you can always come back and still have a home. This place has been a second home for me for many years and I hope that it stays that way for many more. I love the people here and I'm not always excited about what I read that follows my pieces, but that is what people think and I wouldn't be here if I didn't want that.

Actually, at this time that reminds me to thank everyone for being the family away from my family.

I LOVE YOU ALL!!!

Love,
Ladycat

Dancing is the loftiest, the most moving, the most
beautiful of the arts, because it is no mere translation
or abstraction from life; IT IS LIFE I

 
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