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Passions in Poetry

Maybe it's just me...

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Duncan
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since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


0 posted 05-18-2003 05:59 PM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan


A friend made the observation recently that Iím not fond of confrontation and I agreed that was true, so maybe itís just meÖ
but the bickering, name calling, complaining, ungraciousness and just outright mean spirited nature of some of the exchanges here recently, saddens me.
We are ALL guests in a most gracious and forgiving home.

Thanks Ron for letting me crash on your porch.  
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1 posted 05-18-2003 06:04 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It is not just you. I apologize to YOU as well. And if necessary, I will apologize to EVERYONE individually for my part in this mess. And please, I for one, do not wish to aggravate the situation with further discussion. In fact, I'm afraid to post ANYTHING but the most innocuous poetry for fear of being further misunderstood.
Duncan
Member Ascendant
since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


2 posted 05-18-2003 06:16 PM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

Sen...In truth this isn't meant to start a discussion.  Only to say something that's been bothering me for awhile...
You owe me no apology.  But thank you.  I know the spirit of this place will prevail, it always does.  Still, it sucks when the families all pissy, ya know?  
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


3 posted 05-18-2003 10:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's just you, Dunc...
Midnitesun
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since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


4 posted 05-18-2003 10:26 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

No, it isn't just you, Duncan. I've had moments where I've cringed, and felt the sting of words come right through this screen.
Sometimes, I just stay away until thing ssettle down a bit.
Yep, I tend to avoid confrontation.
unless of course it's playful bantering with you! hugs to you, we are in the middle of a lightening storm, so I'm shutting down for now  
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
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Hurricane Alley


5 posted 05-18-2003 11:01 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I try to live by the motto that we should 'do unto others as we would have them do unto us'. It's so hard here when all we have are our words and emoticons to get our point across. Sometimes it's hard to understand the meaning behind the words. All we can do is take a deep breath and be honest with each other. And truly care about the other person.
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


6 posted 05-18-2003 11:13 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I rarely shy from confrontation, but alas, to my shame I think back and wish I would have.

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


7 posted 05-18-2003 11:17 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

To me it depends on the type of confrontation.  Confrontation with closed-minded, stubborn people doesn't seem to get me anywhere, so I shy away from it.  If someone asks me for input, I'll give it, but I won't confront someone who disagrees with me and clearly has no desire to listen to alternative viewpoints.

Yeah, it gets to me when people get into heated arguments at piptalk... I think we should make some effort to keep our negative emotions out of piptalk and inside of emails if possible (and necessary).

Good idea for a thread, Duncan.

Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world.
~Percy Bysshe Shelley

brian sites
Senior Member
since 06-25-2002
Posts 1500
usa


8 posted 05-19-2003 12:20 AM       View Profile for brian sites   Email brian sites   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian sites

you beat me to it Duncan...

After reading what has been going on here..

I shake my head

Using the medium of words,
this tool of internet,
it is so very easy for miscommunication and misunderstanding to happen.
Without face to face inflection, body language, facial expression
it is very easy for people to get false signals.

One thing that I cannot understand is...
Doesn't everyone here understand
that this is the world represented here?
There are people posting their feelings from around the globe
on this website...
Yes, there will be different races
different beliefs
different languages.
You cannot come into a worldwide gathering of peoples expecting to see no-one but those that think as you do
So,
as beings with the capacity of abstract thinking
why do we forget that?
I know I have, on occasion
In fact I left here for three months because I felt I got too emotionally involved in things that, when removed from, I realized
were not really useful to my existence.
I do understand why we get caught up in the emotional field here,
but I think everyone who has issues with the place would benefit from some self-reflection

My thinking is...if someone is bothersome,
or a situation, to you,
act like an adult
and understand
that this isnt your living room
this is the world
and be gracious

Understand that the things you see here
aren't the sum and total of a person.
I have learned this the hard way.

I also want to say,
that attacking Ron is reprehensible.
This service that he provides
and the thought and work that goes into it,
whew
had it been me that set this up
with no compensation other than the satisfaction of having done something Good
and gotten the crap that he receives?
smile
It would have been gone a long time ago

I salute you Ron
for what you have done
for those of us
who want to write
and have our writings be seen
by a large number
of other wonderful writers.

Peace, people
May we all have patience
and courtesy
if not love.

falling off the soapbox now
Brian
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


9 posted 05-19-2003 12:34 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

It's important, I think, to differentiate between the various TYPES of confrontation.

In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with disagreements, even when those disagreements become heated and potentially volatile. Most certainly, there is nothing wrong with complaining, especially when someone's complaints can possibly change something for the better. Disagreements and complaints may not be comfortable for many, but they are just as necessary to healthy communication as the much more pleasant affirmations of "I love you" or "Thank you for being my friend." If you care both about yourself and someone else, conflict is inevitable and voicing your concern can bring only growth.

I believe confrontation only becomes unhealthy and, in fact, futile when one person (a) will be happy with nothing less than changing the other, and (b) let's their frustration over discovering that won't happen turn the confrontation into a personal attack.

Voicing your opinions on an issue will very, very, very rarely change the opinions of someone else. And they will NEVER change who that person really is. But that's okay, because an argument is just another word for conversation, and changing someone should never be our goal. We talk so that we might better understand. If I call you friend because I believe in A and you also believe in A, that's cool. But, if I like you because I believe in A and have no idea what you believe, then our friendship will always be a shallow one. The person I think I like exists only within my own mind and isn't a true reflection of you. Only when I know and understand what you believe, whether it be A or B, will our friendship have any real meaning.

So what happens when I discover you believe in B?

In part, that will depend on how strongly I believe in A. Naturally, there are a few things I find so completely unacceptable that I cannot overlook them in the name of friendship. And I understand that if you believe very strongly in B, you might well feel the same. Chances are, in either case, we will never be friends.

If we get over that hurdle, though, we still have to decide whether our agreements on C and D are, perhaps, enough to ignore our differences over A and B. If we are to be friends, there must be some commonalties we can share. With any luck, those will be enough to overcome our disagreements.

Finally, if we are to be friends, I think it is important that I agree to accept our differences. I cannot maintain our friendship with the hope that "someday" I will change you and make you believe in A. I don't have to like your opinion, but I have to respect it.

Friendship and love aren't dependent on agreeing with each other all the time. They're dependent on understanding each other. And that only happens when we can talk and feel comfortable enough to be honest with each other.
Midnitesun
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since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


10 posted 05-19-2003 12:34 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Well, I must have missed a lot lately, and for that, I'm probably lucky. I have seen/read some pretty disagreeable 'venom'
but also undertand our 'real' world is not a bed of roses and smiles.  I can't help but think the tensions of our time, pollution, war, global terrorism have made the human race edgy and short tempered. Not that we haven't always been that way, but perhaps the shrinking world makes us all get into each others face more than before all our technology allowed us to interface in a split second.
But that is no excuse for rudeness. I think it's incumbent on each of us to go out of our way to increase civility, rather than go in the opposite direction. It's easy to spit, much harder to try to listen and understand, and respect.
ctowen
Member Elite
since 10-18-2001
Posts 2287
Green Mountains of VT


11 posted 05-19-2003 02:30 AM       View Profile for ctowen   Email ctowen   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit ctowen's Home Page   View IP for ctowen

Duncan - I hate confrontations as well .... avoid when possible but life isn't so simple.
As the saying goes "Opinions, everyone has one."

Ron - I feel like a twig amongst the twisted boughs of PIP .... all I require is a few words for nourishment and a little light now and then to know which end is up.
I thank you for the opportunities you offer .... and always will. Somehow I picture you wearing a referee's uniform.   lol

KC - I would tend to agree with you that how we react to a situation depends on what is happening around us. After all, wouldn't such reflect one's opinion of PASSION?

Brian - If the world is not "our" living room, who's is it? As you said, no one will always share the same opinions .... its like siblings to squabble over evrything, it just takes a good father to deal with it.

[This message has been edited by ctowen (05-19-2003 02:39 AM).]

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


12 posted 05-19-2003 11:30 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

words of wisdom ....


quote:
understand
that this isnt your living room
this is the world
and be gracious

quote:
Understand that the things you see here
aren't the sum and total of a person.



me thinks that statement needs to be the billboard for cyberworld and a bumpersticker on all our monitors.
------------


quote:
If you care both about yourself and someone else, conflict is inevitable and voicing your concern can bring only growth.


Friendship and love aren't dependent on agreeing with each other all the time. They're dependent on understanding each other. And that only happens when we can talk and feel comfortable enough to be honest with each other.



yep...words to grow by.
thanks for sharing them.


I refuse to accept that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism & war that the daybreak of peace can never be reality.
MLK

Sven
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since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


13 posted 05-19-2003 12:49 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

Understanding

and

Honesty
can I put both of those on a billboard. . .or on several million bumperstickers???  because that's what I've been trying to say all along. . .

---------------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Greeneyes
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-09-2000
Posts 10848
In Your Poetic Mind


14 posted 05-19-2003 01:10 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

BRAVO Duncan!!!! HUGS tooo


Lauren~

Through the darkness
I can see your light
And you will always shine
And I can feel your heart in mine

I will remember you

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


15 posted 05-19-2003 02:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I. personally, have always believed that everyone is entitled to my opinion...
Midnitesun
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since 05-18-2001
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Gaia


16 posted 05-19-2003 03:35 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

LOL at Michael's reply.
Hope your day on the porch is a pleasant one, Dunc.
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


17 posted 05-19-2003 06:00 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I kinda believe in 'Q'....

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

Duncan
Member Ascendant
since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


18 posted 05-19-2003 06:15 PM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

Ok, I'll bite.  Q?
littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 03-02-2003
Posts 9998
New York


19 posted 05-20-2003 07:19 AM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing


1.  Brian:  AMEN
2.  Duncan:  TY much needed post
3.  Ron:  In awe of your self- control

bottom line:

if a bunch of poets cannot get along - I didnt say agree with everything but simply show respect and love for one another - goodness - I shiver at the prospects for the future . . .

email a disagreement - I despise seeing this in postings - shows immaturity and disprespect

critique something please - but be sensible when you do this - you never know if its a true bleed or a whim

it pains me to see outright malice and jealousy . . .  anywhere -

especially here . . .  I learn and grow through all of you . . .

I am only thankful I am allowed to express myself (and people actually respond to this!)  still amazes me . . .

I have left my heart here
have had it re-started
smiled, laughed a whole lot
and most importantly,
have had a hand when I have fallen
and have extended my hand just the same

I am grateful to be here . . .  truly
thank you
xxoo

    

JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


20 posted 05-20-2003 10:20 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Ron had such a marvelous dissertation regarding belief in A or B, and the dynamics of friendships based on acceptance of those beliefs etc.  I just wanted everyone who thought about being my friend to know tht I don't really subscribe to A or B, even C, D, E...   I'm pretty much a Q guy.

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


21 posted 05-20-2003 12:36 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal


I 'see enough' to know that THIS is true~
quote:
I believe confrontation only becomes unhealthy and, in fact, futile when one person (a) will be happy with nothing less than changing the other, and (b) let's their frustration over discovering that won't happen turn the confrontation into a personal attack.
Darn these 'rose-colored' glasses anyhow !


~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com

 
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