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What is it with kids today? Breaking News

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nakdthoughts
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0 posted 04-24-2003 09:27 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Breaking News...

An 8th grader just shot and killed the principal of a middle school next district over from here in Red Lion, PA.  Then killed himself in the cafeteria before school started.
Where are these parents and what are they teaching their children today at home. Nothing is worth  shooting anyone, if it was grades or even being made fun of( which they haven't said yet) This was a well liked principal.

You almost have to have Hazard Pay to work in schools today...gives me second thoughts.

I feel for the children at school who had to witness this, and the families who now have lost loved ones due to ...what???

"Love is not blind - It sees more and not less, but because it sees more, it is willing to see less."
(Will Moss)

anonymousfemale
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1 posted 04-24-2003 09:48 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

You don't know what the principal was like behind closed doors nor do you know what the child was going through. There are two sides to every story and while you may think it is something to get angry over, remember that people are driven to these sorts of acts.

After all, anything could have been running around in his head. Thoughts are powerful things.

I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.

nakdthoughts
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2 posted 04-24-2003 09:59 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Students and parents both said  he was a well-liked principal and no matter what was going on in his life there is no reason to bring a weapon to school.

He wants to kill himself..then do it but why kill anyone else.

And I still say where are the parents..a child of any age who hasthis much rage in him and has premeditated this, should have had some behavior noticeable tohis parents and or friends.
This world has got to stop saying there is an excuse for what happens and begin to take responsibilty each for their own actions.

Besides..no one will know his side of the story..will they now????..because if someone knew it, they could have and should have prevented this...

[This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 10:00 AM).]

Ron
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3 posted 04-24-2003 11:09 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
... people are driven to these sorts of acts.

Cattle are driven. People make choices.
Opeth
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4 posted 04-24-2003 12:03 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth


"You don't know what the principal was like behind closed doors nor do you know what the child was going through."


~ It doesn't matter what the principal was like and it doesn't matter what the kid was going through - no excuse, whatsoever for what he did.

"There are two sides to every story..."

~ Actually, there are at least 3 sides.

"...and while you may think it is something to get angry over, remember that people are driven to these sorts of acts."


~ Say what? Let me paraphrase your words, which happens to be my own favorite quote for our times...

"This is the day and age where we blame everyone else for all of our problems."



[This message has been edited by Opeth (04-24-2003 02:32 PM).]

Tammy Blessing
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5 posted 04-24-2003 12:14 PM       View Profile for Tammy Blessing   Email Tammy Blessing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tammy Blessing

Excellent response Ron!! I totally agree!

Sadly,there are just too many parents out there today that don't care enough about their children. I see it all the time.It does make you think. But my personal solution is to become more involved with my children, their friends and their school in the hopes that I can touch even one child's life and help prevent things like this from happening. Not all parents are good, but the good ones should not live in fear and wonder why..we should stand together and look for the ones that need our help and do what little we can.
Tammy
Sometimes the smallest drop of water, turns the tide...
nakdthoughts
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6 posted 04-24-2003 02:10 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Ron...yes there are always choices to be made. We still haven't heard what might have caused this 14 year old to take a handgun to school..maybe we will never know, but it has made national news today.

Opeth, my thoughts exactly...you can never defend something like this...but  hope that it doesn't happen again.

And Tammy, I am glad you are more involved with your children. I often get accused of not knowing what I am talking about because I have no children of my own. But when I taught, I use to have 35 to 40  third graders in my class and I gave each one of them the caring needed and showed interest in each and could easily tell when one was  troubled...so why wouldn't a parent?

There are many warning signs to problem behavior. Today there are counselors in every level of school. There are so many aids for children if they and their parents just know where to go and how to ask for help.

And parents know more or are supposed to know their own children well enough to know when they are upset.  

Whose gun did he bring and where did he get it..and the ammunition. More than likely it came from home and if it did, there will be more than this child who will be and should be held responsible for the principals death.

[This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 02:14 PM).]

Poet deVine
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7 posted 04-24-2003 03:48 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

The child died. I think that's sad in itself.
nakdthoughts
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8 posted 04-24-2003 04:17 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Sharon, I take the other viewpoint

I say ..and a Principal died by a gunshot to the chest, he had no choice this morning. Who is to say that child wouldn't have killed some of the other 8th graders that were all in the cafeteria waiting for school to start.

The child (a 14 year old) had the choice to go elsewhere for his troubles, or not to go to school at all.

He brought at least 3 guns with him... the principal had no choice. He was shot less than 10 feet away in the chest.

The child had the choice to stay alive, and he didn't make the right choice twice. I feel for the loss of a child and his parents loss but something was lacking in his family life for him to do this. The guns were not locked up and came from his home.

It should be a lesson for all.

My viewpoint in all of this is:

Parents have a responsibility to their children. And certainly should have had the guns locked up and the ammunition placed elsewhere.
If more attention were given to their children, this may have not happened. It WAS preventable.

[This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 04:21 PM).]

Chanson
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9 posted 04-24-2003 04:42 PM       View Profile for Chanson   Email Chanson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Chanson

Hiya Maureen. I concur with everything you
have said. And I would like to add that
for every one news story pertaining to
a horrible school incident such as this one
there are literally thousands of good stories
that don't make the news. Take tonight
for instance. My family is preening and
washing behind our ears to witness my
17 year old son's National Honor Society
Induction in a few short hours. I am honored
to be among 21 sets of proud parents to
see their children receiving this honor. In
two weeks time, I will have the honor a second
time to witness my 13 year old son's National
Junior Honor Society induction. At this time
around the United States, many induction
ceremonies are taking place to honor children who have their heads on straight,
conducting themselves like ladies and gentlemen with manners. I feel extremely sad
when children have parents who treat them
as mere tax deductions and who show little
or no love to their children. It is no wonder
to me why a child feels completely alone
and feels he must resort to murder/suicide
to solve their problems and when this happens
we hear about it on the national news. Such
a pity that the flipside...ie, the goodness in children, the responsibility and good
manners of many children
do not get the same news time.

The national and local news stations are all about cramming as many sad/bad stories
down our throats and completely forget that
there are MANY good stores out there too. *s

Midnitesun
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10 posted 04-24-2003 09:55 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

The title of this made me cringe. What is it with HUMANS these days might be a fairer Q. This was a sad senseless tragic event. But 'youth' itself isn't to blame.
There are many wonderful young people out there whose stories never reach the media because they aren't 'flashy' or sensational....kids who make sane appropriate decisions daily, in spite of being bombarded 24/7 with our world's collective insanity.
I'm actually more surprised that it happens rarely, given the world all of us 'sane' adults have offered them.
Guess we will never know the truth in this one, as we don't know the truths behind Columbine, the community adjacent to where I currently live, which still suffers a  collective trauma from an insane act at a school.
LoveBug
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11 posted 04-24-2003 11:24 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

It's horrible what happened. Yes, that child had a choice, but I pity him for the choice he made. Nobody MADE him do this, but I feel bad that he died, all the same. It is sad for the principal as well.. even if he wasn't as nice as people said, nobody deserves to die.

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Mysteria
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12 posted 04-24-2003 11:47 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I was sitting on these hands not wanting to say anything being a Canadian, but I do put so much blame on the availability of guns in the United States, but also understand the crime rate there is so much larger than it is here.  I truly hope I never live to see the day we are allowed to own handguns in this country, and I mean that.  

This boy chose to take a weapon from his own home and actually kill someone with it, for whatever his reason.  It is too late to blame anyone or anything, as it is done, and the only good to come out of a violent and sad act such as this, is to learn from it.

I have to agree that for every sensationalized story you read there are literally thousands you never hear about as those don't get ratings or readers.  For instance, Kacy was visiting me with her daughter Sarah, who is a typical teen in my opinion, with her head screwed on right, but she had a great deal of home schooling with a mother that truly has her best interest at heart.  This is key - parent involvement.  There is not a kid alive that does not want to know someone cares enough about them to validates their existence.  I don't "blame" parents, I simply don't understand why they choose to give their kids so much money and so little time, as this is one investment they are making that will only have negative returns in the future.  It is easy to give in, and really hard to say "no", and that is the work in family dynamics, caring enough to say, "No!"

Anyway, I find this incident very sad, and agree with you on one issue Maureen, the teachers in this world have to be commended as key to our nation's future, and if it is going to be an unsafe environment to work in, God help our children, for they are the future citizens to run this world of ours.


nakdthoughts
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13 posted 04-25-2003 01:57 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

thank you all...I hope no one feels from my words that I blame the 14 year old or the parents alone...but that I feel someone should have paid more attention to this child and have known what was going on in his life so that this could have been prevented.

We will probably hear later that other students might have known that he threatened to bring a gun to school. When will everyone begin to take these signs seriously.

Even a mention of  bringing a gun or suicide or killing or getting even with someone should be warning enough and someone should have been told. Most of the time it is a cry for help.

M
Greeneyes
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14 posted 04-25-2003 09:51 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

M~ I couldn’t agree with you more…

AnnoFem~ you must not have children,  I cant   fathom the thoughts of what you posted….

There is nothing in this world good or bad worth KILLING some one over for any reason…..including the childs life

People are driven to MURDER??? was that your intention of speech? How sad.....

I agree with Ron 100% People have choices….


Through the darkness
I can see your light
And you will always shine
And I can feel your heart in mine

I will remember you




[This message has been edited by Greeneyes (04-25-2003 10:23 AM).]

Midnitesun
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15 posted 04-25-2003 11:00 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

M, I do agree with you about the school situation in one respect. It IS a more dangerous place these days than it was when you and I went to public school. It's just one of the reasons homeschooling was the option I chose, four years ago, for my child. It's also one of the reasons I quit working in the public school system after 8 years.
Taking responsiblity for our individual actions is only one piece of the puzzle though. There are too many guns available to too many hands.
It's doubly sad when a young mind snaps and does something like this and destroys not only himself, but a respected guide as well.

BTW, thank you Sharon, for your comments!  
Opeth
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16 posted 04-25-2003 11:16 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Taking responsiblity for our individual actions is only one piece of the puzzle though. There are too many guns available to too many hands."

~ Does a gun just jump into one's hands?

  
Greeneyes
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17 posted 04-25-2003 11:59 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

Opeth~

Well said my friend, well said.....

me~
nakdthoughts
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18 posted 04-25-2003 02:31 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

thank you again, Opeth, Midnightsun and Greeneyes.  
Any loss of life is a tragedy.

M
Midnitesun
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19 posted 04-25-2003 04:39 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Opeth, I understand your comment. but what of the three year old? He cannot be held to the same level of accountability, and yet, a three year old recently killed a sibling with a loaded handgun, one that was left unlocked by a so-called responsible parent.
More recently, last week here in Colorado an 11 year old boy was shot and killed by a friend when they were playing around with a parent's loaded gun that was left unlocked. The boys had ASSUMED that the 'responsible' sane parent would not have left it loaded. Bang, the 11 year old was dead. Ironically, he had just been given a doctors report showing his leukemia was in remission.

No, the guns never jump into the hand. But sometimes the hands are not attached to a mature being.

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (04-25-2003 04:40 PM).]

nakdthoughts
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20 posted 04-25-2003 04:55 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

In that case I hold the parents and or gun owners responsible. But some seem to think that the death of their child is enough loss and punishment..but if parents who own those guns are punished also, maybe then they will keep the guns locked up and out of the hands of those who are too young to know the consequences.

Gun ownership is always a touchy subject in America. There are those who without guns would have crimes commited against them and have used them in self-defense...and how may weapons are there in homes where the adults hunt? A gun is an easy form of weaponry to use...and don't you think anyone older than  maybe 9, knows what the outcome is when he/she aims it at another? Someone MUST be held accountable.
Irie
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21 posted 04-30-2003 04:12 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

Maybe the kid was tortured & teased by class mates and the principle didn't do anything about it.
Maybe it was his grades and was under some kind of pressure at home to keep excellent grades.
Maybe he was abused at home and reached out to his school and the school did nothing.
Maybe he just snapped and had a break down.
Maybe he was just mentally ill.

His parents could have been the best parents in the world ...
Maybe not.

Maybe we'll never know what caused him to snap.

What I do know is that it is so very sad, for everyone involved.

And I never read anywhere ..... did the gun belong to his parents or did he get it elsewhere?


~Sheri

"Don't wait for your ship to come in ...
Swim out to it"

[This message has been edited by Irie (04-30-2003 04:17 PM).]

nakdthoughts
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22 posted 04-30-2003 05:46 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

first of all it doesn't matter what the reasons behind him shooting the principal and killing him, and then killing himself (in a crowded cafteria of students.)
He had  at least 3 guns with him in his backpack. I heard on the news his girlfriend broke up with him...and that maybe the principal wasn't even his target...that said maybe the principal is a hero  for blocking the shot.

It does not matter what the reason was.  It is against the law to carry a concealed weapon.

It is against the law to shoot it, especially in a crowded room.

It is against the law to shoot and kill someone.

How many reasons did he have to have that  would make this ok with you. If mentally ill, then his parents were responsible for allowing the gun to be found unlocked and loaded. And at 14 he was definitely old enough to know better.

I have little respect for those who want to blame society or the victims. And as it turned out, from what I have heard on TV, others heard him mention he might  do this...as I said before, that in itself is no joking matter and everyone within earshot of that comment should have reported it to someone of authority...and maybe then this would have been prevented. As a former teacher, and probably a new one again in the fall..I can tell when a child or student is having a problem, but if he doesn't go for help or want it, you can only attempt to help him...and notify his family.

There was no excuse for murder, no matter what the situation...and yes, it was very sad for all families and friends involved.

[This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-30-2003 05:51 PM).]

Irie
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23 posted 05-01-2003 07:23 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

quote:
first of all it doesn't matter what the reasons behind him shooting the principal and killing him, and then killing himself (in a crowded cafteria of students.)

Well, you posed the question; ,“and the families who now have lost loved ones due to ...what???,
I am just trying to understand why this kind of tragedy happens my self, trying to make sense of it all.

Second, it does matter what reason(s) is behind it. It matters a lot, at least to me it does. Wouldn’t you agree that the more we know and understand why things like this happen, the more prevention and better intervention?

quote:
It does not matter what the reason was.  It is against the law to carry a concealed weapon.
Yes; it is against the law to carry a concealed weapon on school premises, even with a CWP. (concealed weapons permit) I never said it wasn't.

quote:
How many reasons did he have to have that would make this ok with you. If mentally ill, then his parents were responsible for allowing the gun to be found unlocked and loaded. And at 14 he was definitely old enough to know better.

Not one! NOT once did I say this was OK with me! I certainly do not condone it.

quote:
I have little respect for those who want to blame society or the victims. And as it turned out, from what I have heard on TV, others heard him mention he might do this...

I wasn’t asking for anyone’s respect, just simply trying to answer the question …. Why?
And as far as the others that heard him mention he might do this, and did nothing about it.
You’re right. Maybe had they not kept their mouths shut until it was too late, this could have been prevented.
Maybe they should also be held partially responsible?
I never said I was OK with this, and was not making excuses for anyone. As I have said twice and will say again.. just trying to make sense of it and understand.
So, I am sorry that I have upset you over this matter. This certainly was not my intention.


~Sheri

"Don't wait for your ship to come in ...
Swim out to it"


[This message has been edited by Irie (05-01-2003 07:25 PM).]

nakdthoughts
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24 posted 05-02-2003 09:45 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

I am not upset. I guess my question was more of sarcasm then wanting answers.

Sometimes these events that get sensationalized make me wonder why more wasn't done to prevent this from happening.

There are answers if one wants to open their eyes, especially the parents and friends of this teenager. And I know that parents can't know everything their children do, but the responsibility that comes with parenthood is
one of the most important in life and if they are going to "raise" their children, they should know "the who and what and where" that goes on in that child's life.

Thank you Irie for your responses. I did appreciate them. I think what is hard to realize on here is the tone used in words.

*s
M

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