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Who else is afraid?
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Who else is afraid? |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981
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do you see the news? do you see what is happening to us? Why should the people of America suffer from the mistakes of our government? We are going to war. It is the moment of truth, and this is our decision. I only have regret that we cannot fix the past. the Wind is invisible. |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
yes...I am afraid...I have a son of drafting age...I have family and friends enlisted, I will never understand the whys of ego and power and the cruel things mankind can inflict on one another... war is defined by the people lost...so how can anyone ever say they won? |
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Skyfire
since 2000-12-27
Posts 3381Riding |
I'm not afraid. I'm not going to let this stop me from enjoying my life; there's nothing I can do about it. But then, I support the war, so I generally stay quiet about it. Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend. |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
Why is it always about America? You're not the only bloody country heading into this war. "Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." -- Gore Vidal |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I didn't say we were. But England and all those other places aren't the ones who started this war. I apreciate it, but thats just more lives that are going to be spent on a useless cause. I'm not letting it ruin my life, but it still scares me. It's like being afraid of the dark. It doesn't ruin your life, but it's something you can't avoid. the Wind is invisible. |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Just to make sure y'all stay focused on reality... No one wants war (unless they are lunatics), no one likes war (ditto), but sometimes war is inevitable, sometimes it is necessary - regardless of how tasteless and heartwrenching it is. and please, for the sake of your sanity, if you have to blame someone, make sure you are blaming those who truely caused it. America did not start what may or may not happen (we haven't gone to war yet, remember?) Bush did not cause the war. Saddam caused it, Saddam created the conflict, Saddam is the one to blame. Our country and those allies who have the intestines to stand with us (thank you UK and others), are not starting this possible war, we are preparing to end it. The reality is that the war isn't started by the first shot fired, it is merely continued along its course by that shot. The conflict starts long before combat does. Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
Well said JP. I agree with the principles of the war, (i.e. taking Saddam out of power) to protect the US, but I am saddened, because I know dee down, oil is playing a key role. ~Titus "On the plains of Hesitation lie the blackend bones of countless millions, who, at the verge of victory, sat down to wait, and waiting - died." |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I just hope nothing happens. the Wind is invisible. |
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Skyfire
since 2000-12-27
Posts 3381Riding |
Wind I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm just wondering something... What would have happened if we hadn't have fought with Hitler? Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend. |
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Dopey Dope
Moderator
Member Patricius
since 2000-08-30
Posts 11132San Juan, Puerto Rico |
War sucks..... but I'd like to see you guys run the country. Easy job? NOPE! |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
JP - I have to disagree. Saddam didn't 'start' this war (because let's be honest, it has started already really, unofficially or not). No, rather Saddam is a secretive, cruel tyrant who - by sitting quietly, and failing to comply with UN regulations to a satisfactory degree, (not to mention all the other thousand of reasons that I am perhaps ignorant about) - has encouraged international contempt, and fear. He, however, did not start this. I'm afraid this is very much a Bush-lead war and there is no escaping that fact. Saddam is correct when he states that 'Iraq is no Afghanistan' but I'm sure the American military might will be sufficient enough to squash them all like bugs. Even the innocent civilians. And no - I don't need to hear anymore crap about how war is necessary sometimes...I'm well aware that within our current social system it does seem to be the only way we can find to resolve certain issues. However, it does seem to me that Bush wants this war very very much. But hey, what would I know - I'm just a kiwi at the bottom of the bloody planet. Anonymous female - I know how you feel hon. Hugs. I know many of your countrymen are involved...we're staying out of it as much as possible, except for medical aid at this stage - for which I have zero shame. Wind - it is a little scary, even way down here.  K[This message has been edited by Severn (03-07-2003 10:10 PM).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Perhaps you're right Severn, perhaps poor Saddam didn't start this, perhaps the madman Bush started all of it and is picking on the put upon tyrant who has done nothing more than savage his own people... Perhaps you are right. I don't think so, the facts - as we know them - don't seem to support your view, but I'm always open to other possibilities. I'm afraid this is very much a Bush-lead war and there is no escaping that fact. Saddam is correct when he states that 'Iraq is no Afghanistan' but I'm sure the American military might will be sufficient enough to squash them all like bugs. Even the innocent civilians. And no - I don't need to hear anymore crap about how war is necessary sometimes...I'm well aware that within our current social system it does seem to be the only way we can find to resolve certain issues. I would love to have a different social system that has never heard of war - however, it doesn't exist so we are faced with what we have. So we can pretend we have a utopian society where the unpleasant is unnecessary, and let those who wish destruction upon have their way, or we can do what is needed to eliminate that very real, and very probable threat. signature--> Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient [This message has been edited by JP (03-08-2003 12:21 AM).] |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Ah...'poor' Saddam. So by my suggesting that this may very well be a Bush-lead war that automatically equates to sympathy with Saddam eh? Logical. I suppose the words secretive, cruel and tyrant may well have escaped your attention - easy to do when having an emotional reaction. (re, my rambles in the alley). Did I suggest that Bush was a madman JP? Did I actually say 'Bush is a madman.' No, I didn't. I merely asserted that it is a fact (re, more rambles in the alley) that Bush is leading the bloody war. What is so horribly awful about ascribing accountability toward the man openly defying the UN? Just so you know - I had a relationship with an Iraqi man not so long ago. I know all about Saddam and what he does to people over there. This man, with some of his family, fled Saddam's regime, saw friends murdered under under it... Some of his family remain in Baghdad. Aunts, uncles - real names to me. People who may die because war is the only answer. Now please, don't ever ever suggest to me that I might believe in something so naive as an Utopian society. It is a cheapening of my viewpoint that we haven't, as a society, as a world, found a better solution to conflict. A solution to conflict that doesn't involve mass loss of life is not equal to the idealistic, popular cultural representation that is Utopia. I may not support the war - though, let me repeat this as it obviously didn't get through the first time - I recognise it's necessity and inevitability. [This message has been edited by Severn (03-08-2003 12:52 AM).] |
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Lucie Senior Member
since 1999-06-20
Posts 1077Houston |
I wonder.... does anyone else think that maybe what we hear from the media and our government is not the complete truth of it all? Remember me with a smile on your face, or please don't remember me at all. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Such is the human race. Often it does seem such a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat. ~Mark Twain |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I didn't mean for this to lead to debate. I only wanted to know how others felt about the topic. But I see it from both veiws. the Wind is invisible. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
topics like this generally do lead to debate sweetie...specially with big mouths like us around  K |
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Skyfire
since 2000-12-27
Posts 3381Riding |
Don't worry about it hun, we're always up for a debate hehe Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
Yeah... I just hate starting it. the Wind is invisible. |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
I am sure one could add 'oil' to the list of items included in the following by W.E. Woodward, as well as assume close proximity is no longer much of a factor as well. "We Americans cannot conceive of a war without a moral backgound...It may now be accepted as a principle that any weak saddle-colored nation that happens to be situated near us and also happens to possess a lot of mahogany or hemp or goldmines had better look out. We have our moral eye on such people and are likely to introduce American morality at any moment." There is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar. |
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Neeraja Senior Member
since 2002-06-22
Posts 812The Netherlands |
I try to be not afraid... but it's more difficult each day... especially since my son (he is in the Dutch army) has had his shots against Antrax and more poisinous stuff! He has to go there too when there is going to be a war... he has been to Kosovo and Bosnia already... as I wrote before on PIP, this is definatly NOT what I had in mind when he was just a newborn baby and I looked into his eyes for the first time...25 years ago. I realise that there are so many parents like me... with son's and daughters in the army... I also realise that there are so many people afraid because of this threathening war... people in Irak and all over the world... people who never asked for war... who just want to live their lives like you and me... Yes... I am afraid we can't stop this war... we can only make peace in our own families... our own envirements... that is something we CAN do!!! So what if we start from there... right now... right this minute!!! Neeraja |
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winston Member
since 2002-12-19
Posts 204NW of Eden |
If I may be "allowed" in this great democracy of ours that is the U.S. of A. to say that it isn't Saddam Hussein, although his party is guilty of buying weapons from America, UK, France, Germany, and Russia. The weapons industry of our great democracy finances the paramilitaries in Columbia to fight their dirty war against the ordinary people of Columbia. That trite propaganda piece that Mr Colin Powell did on TV recently, showing an allegedly working factory in Iraq, well, that was actually financed and fed by Her Majesty's Government of the UK. THE ORDINARY MEN AND WOMEN OF AMERICA NEED TO GET THE STRENGTH TO SAY "NO" TO THE LIES REGARDLESS OF WHAT DIRECTION IT'S COMING FROM. I BEG THE ORDINARY AMERICANS NOT TO BE EMOTIONALLY OR PYSCHOLOGICALLY ABUSED OR BE SEDUCED BY THE POLITICIANS. It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, & incumbency. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Small world Winston. You do have the right to say that. Here |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Yep, he does. And, fortunately, the rest of us have the right to completely ignore allegations presented without any effort to support them.  |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
I guess I'm too pragmatic. I see what has happened in the past, what may or may have not led to the situation we find ourselves in now and I think to myself "what does it matter? If I sold weapons to this man 20 years ago, and now he wants to use those weapons against me do I let him just because I sold them to him?" Heck no. I defend myself, take action, do whatever needs to be done. Hindsight is 20/20 and does nothing to change the reality of the present, particularly if that present demnonstrates a true threat against our national security and the security of the world. Does it really matter how we got here? Particularly since we ARE here? /pip/Forum76/HTML/003142.html Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn. |
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rkcraig Member
since 2003-02-27
Posts 202Cincinnati, Ohio, USA |
this is for annonymous female we may not be the only country heading into war, but we have over 250,000 plus troops over there involved in the conflict, all other countries combined total less than 50,000. it is always about America because we are the only ones who will stand up to tyrants and leaders who murder there own people, wouldn't you want the same for your country? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
rkcraig: Your ignorance is ridiculous. quote: Are you serious? Hmm...let's compare the population of your country - what 220 million or something isn't it? - to a country such as Australia - anonymous female's country... My my...go and do your math and figure out the difference. But really, I was wondering if you had heard of per head of capita ratios before? I doubt it. quote: And more importantly - how dare you imply that because the combined force of other countries is so much less than that of the states, those other countries are contributing less. That's 50,000 human lives my friend. FIFTY THOUSAND HUMAN LIVES. |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
rkcraig: I'm not sure whether to be insulted or laugh. It's arrogant attitudes like yours that really darken what should be unity for PEACE not hatred. To pick one of the many countries involved in this conflict, Australia's population is around that of 19 million. America's is around 287 million. I notice a massive difference there but to insinuate that because our National Defence is incredibly smaller than that of yours we contribute less to global situations is infuriating. Are you over there at the moment, defending your countries "freedom"? I didn't think so. quote: Ever heard of East Timor? I suggest you look that up and then come back and say that Americans are the only ones that will face up to tyrants as you put it. Or even better, do a history check and tell me what you come up with. Do not ever sit there and say that the combined forces of parties concerned with this current problem don't counter the numbers of America and therefore can't possibly stand up to tyrants. As Severn said: quote: Thanks for adding, Severn, BTW.  I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
just a quick reminder -- Mr. craig is only one of 287 million Americans -- probably not the only one that feels that way -- but one. For his willingness to serve I offer my thanks... for his jingo jangling -- I offer my apologies on behalf of my countrymen. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
I love to read the Psalms when I am afraid. "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the Earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, and the mountains quake with their surging. Selah" Psalm 46:1-2 When wars and rumors of wars are rampant, and fear is a common ailment, I find that God is the only real source of inner peace. Stephen. [This message has been edited by Stephanos (03-10-2003 10:50 PM).] |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
 (sigh) No one wants this war, yes, so many I've heard repeat this are right, what makes me laugh is the ludicrous dialogue that war is inevitable! Yes, possibly it is, but only because so many out there are too lazy to do anything, they are all just feeling hopeless and this weakness is what is going to lead to war. We've had strong protest marches indeed, but their sizes can amass so much larger. Everyone who says they don't want this war but sit back and listen to the news should be ashamed of themselves, it is these kind of people that make me afraid, not those who are designing the ideas of this pending war. Love, Noah Eaton "Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..." Shakira [This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (03-11-2003 12:27 AM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Thank you, Stephen. It's so easy to get caught up in the current climate and not have our minds be where they need to be to experience the only real peace that there is anyway. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Noah, I feel you are also displaying ignorance - even if it's meant well... I very much doubt that 'laziness' has anything to do with a disability to find an answer that doesn't involve war... What exactly do you think a protest march will achieve? What? Tell me. K |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
I never said that protest marches would be the answer to "preventing" such a war, but they are symbolic to the degree of how we feel, and they can justify the fact that we don't WANT this war. Countless times I've heard people say "No sane person wants this war" but that it's going to happen. What's insane to me is how many are letting this happen, and I don't mean only from the grass roots! It seems we are all being SLAPP-ed in the face, the government caring little about the participation of the public, yet I also feel we are not demonstrating enough of our justifications because we assume that those on the branches will give us blank stares and so we mute, giving the leaders the assumption everyone is cooperating. That's what scares me. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..." |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hey Noah...I appreciate your answer to my question. This statement of yours: quote: is what lead me to question you in the first place. To narrow it down further: 'war is inevitable...but only because so many out there are too lazy...' And then in your second post you do hit upon the key word: 'symbolic' quote: It is all symbolic my friend. Anything the little people do enmasse - symbolic. I'm afraid that the US government (and the British, and the Spanish, and the Australian governments etc etc) are very aware of the feelings against the war Noah. Do you believe that if these feelings were shouted out more loudly, by more 'non-lazy' people, that the governments would somehow cease what they are doing? The leaders have zero assumption that we are mute and blind. Rather, the governments are aware of the ideologies that shape our society...if we are mute and blind toward anything - it is toward the truth of 'freedom' and 'liberty' that we believe our social systems are based around. You protest the inevitability of war quite strongly. You imply that if people were not so lazy that war could be averted. So please, if you will, give me a solution that is feasible, workable, and able to be put into place this month that will prevent a war. You won't be able to, I guarantee it. And please don't talk about a Utopian dream of some 'great love' because I did ask for feasible and workable... K[This message has been edited by Severn (03-13-2003 03:05 AM).] |
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defenestrate Junior Member
since 2003-01-10
Posts 46nc, us |
i can't really rationalize being afraid, because there's not a lot i can do. however, i think it's rather disappointing that humanity is willing to settle for massive loss of life-just another example of man settling for less than excellence in all things. it's not my call to make, but if we're really planning on destroying ourselves, i hope it happens before i'm too old to see it. i'm so weary of all of this propaganda and posturing and politicism and indoctrination. i'd see everything i love burn before i'd condone any of it. |
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machiner Member
since 2003-03-13
Posts 67MA, US |
JP, I think perhaps you have sand in your eyes. "and please, for the sake of your sanity, if you have to blame someone, make sure you are blaming those who truely caused it. America did not start what may or may not happen (we haven't gone to war yet, remember?) Bush did not cause the war. Saddam caused it, Saddam created the conflict, Saddam is the one to blame. Our country and those allies who have the intestines to stand with us (thank you UK and others), are not starting this possible war, we are preparing to end it. " I'm glad to have the freedoms I do in America, sure enough. I was a soldier 8 years...now hush. But when you peer out over the blinders and pay attention to the pigs that run our country, and others, and know what they do...and how they beguile and build the world that is ours, sure enough you would quake from embarassment. Truth is noone's bitch. |
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sea_of_okc Senior Member
since 1999-06-15
Posts 568Oklahoma City, OK, USA |
I would prefer the american government find and fund a middle eastern faction to topple the Iraqi government from within whether it be by coup, by civil war or just by killing Saddam. What worries me is why is Bush so determined to have this be an armed conflict? Does he want an American friendly goverment in Iraq? Does he want to further the cause of peace in the middle east? Or does he think it will improve his approval rating in the U.S. perhaps divert our attention from our flagging economy? Hmmmm I agree something needs to be done about Saddam but I think war should be our last alternative and I don't believe that time has yet come unfortunately world leaders will do as they wish. rkcraig as a fellow American I am embarassed and shamed by your comments. Our allies have always contributed what they could and I hope our international poets here understand that your opinion is the minority. Something for you to think about Rk: If a millionaire contributes $50K to a cause and a dirt poor person contributes $10 who is making the greater sacrifice??? Peace and love all |
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