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Passions in Poetry

Who else is afraid?

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Wind
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0 posted 03-06-2003 08:19 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind


do you see the news? do you see what is happening to us? Why should the people of America suffer from the mistakes of our government? We are going to war. It is the moment of truth, and this is our decision. I only have regret that we cannot fix the past.

the Wind is invisible.
        remeber me

Janet Marie
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1 posted 03-06-2003 10:04 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

yes...I am afraid...I have a son of drafting age...I have family and friends enlisted,
I will never understand the whys of ego and power and the cruel things mankind can inflict on one another...
war is defined by the people lost...so how can anyone ever say they won?

    
peace & poetry

Skyfire
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2 posted 03-07-2003 03:47 AM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

I'm not afraid.  I'm not going to let this stop me from enjoying my life; there's nothing I can do about it.
But then, I support the war, so I generally stay quiet about it.

Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend.

anonymousfemale
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3 posted 03-07-2003 05:34 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

Why is it always about America? You're not the only bloody country heading into this war.

"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." -- Gore Vidal

Wind
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4 posted 03-07-2003 07:42 AM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

I didn't say we were. But England and all those other places aren't the ones who started this war. I apreciate it, but thats just more lives that are going to be spent on a useless cause. I'm not letting it ruin my life, but it still scares me. It's like being afraid of the dark. It doesn't ruin your life, but it's something you can't avoid.

the Wind is invisible.
        remeber me

JP
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5 posted 03-07-2003 11:18 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Just to make sure y'all stay focused on reality...

No one wants war (unless they are lunatics), no one likes war (ditto), but sometimes war is inevitable, sometimes it is necessary - regardless of how tasteless and heartwrenching it is.

and please, for the sake of your sanity, if you have to blame someone, make sure you are blaming those who truely caused it.  America did not start what may or may not happen (we haven't gone to war yet, remember?)  Bush did not cause the war.  Saddam caused it, Saddam created the conflict, Saddam is the one to blame.  Our country and those allies who have the intestines to stand with us (thank you UK and others), are not starting this possible war, we are preparing to end it. The reality is that the war isn't started by the first shot fired, it is merely continued along its course by that shot.  The conflict starts long before combat does.

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

PoetryIsLife
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6 posted 03-07-2003 01:55 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

Well said JP.

I agree with the principles of the war, (i.e. taking Saddam out of power) to protect the US, but I am saddened, because I know dee down, oil is playing a key role.

~Titus

"On the plains of Hesitation lie the blackend bones of countless millions, who, at the verge of victory, sat down to wait, and waiting - died."
    

Wind
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7 posted 03-07-2003 03:51 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

I just hope nothing happens.

the Wind is invisible.
        remeber me

Skyfire
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8 posted 03-07-2003 05:31 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Wind I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm just wondering something... What would have happened if we hadn't have fought with Hitler?  

Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend.

Dopey Dope
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9 posted 03-07-2003 09:35 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

War sucks..... but I'd like to see you guys run the country. Easy job? NOPE!
Severn
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10 posted 03-07-2003 10:05 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

JP - I have to disagree. Saddam didn't 'start' this war (because let's be honest, it has started already really, unofficially or not). No, rather Saddam is a secretive, cruel tyrant who - by sitting quietly, and failing to comply with UN regulations to a satisfactory degree, (not to mention all the other thousand of reasons that I am perhaps ignorant about) - has encouraged international contempt, and fear. He, however, did not start this.

I'm afraid this is very much a Bush-lead war and there is no escaping that fact. Saddam is correct when he states that 'Iraq is no Afghanistan' but I'm sure the American military might will be sufficient enough to squash them all like bugs. Even the innocent civilians. And no - I don't need to hear anymore crap about how war is necessary sometimes...I'm well aware that within our current social system it does seem to be the only way we can find to resolve certain issues.

However, it does seem to me that Bush wants this war very very much. But hey, what would I know - I'm just a kiwi at the bottom of the bloody planet.

Anonymous female - I know how you feel hon. Hugs. I know many of your countrymen are involved...we're staying out of it as much as possible, except for medical aid at this stage - for which I have zero shame.

Wind - it is a little scary, even way down here.

K

[This message has been edited by Severn (03-07-2003 10:10 PM).]

JP
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11 posted 03-08-2003 12:16 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Perhaps you're right Severn, perhaps poor Saddam didn't start this, perhaps the madman Bush started all of it and is picking on the put upon tyrant who has done nothing more than savage his own people...

Perhaps you are right. I don't think so, the facts - as we know them - don't seem to support your view, but I'm always open to other possibilities.

I'm afraid this is very much a Bush-lead war and there is no escaping that fact. Saddam is correct when he states that 'Iraq is no Afghanistan' but I'm sure the American military might will be sufficient enough to squash them all like bugs. Even the innocent civilians. And no - I don't need to hear anymore crap about how war is necessary sometimes...I'm well aware that within our current social system it does seem to be the only way we can find to resolve certain issues.

I would love to have a different social system that has never heard of war - however, it doesn't exist so we are faced with what we have. So we can pretend we have a utopian society where the unpleasant is unnecessary, and let those who wish destruction upon have their way, or we can do what is needed to eliminate that very real, and very probable threat.
signature-->

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

[This message has been edited by JP (03-08-2003 12:21 AM).]

Severn
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12 posted 03-08-2003 12:51 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Ah...'poor' Saddam. So by my suggesting that this may very well be a Bush-lead war that automatically equates to sympathy with Saddam eh?

Logical.

I suppose the words secretive, cruel and tyrant may well have escaped your attention - easy to do when having an emotional reaction. (re, my rambles in the alley).

Did I suggest that Bush was a madman JP? Did I actually say 'Bush is a madman.' No, I didn't. I merely asserted that it is a fact (re, more rambles in the alley) that Bush is leading the bloody war. What is so horribly awful about ascribing accountability toward the man openly defying the UN?

Just so you know - I had a relationship with an Iraqi man not so long ago. I know all about Saddam and what he does to people over there. This man, with some of his family, fled Saddam's regime, saw friends murdered under under it...

Some of his family remain in Baghdad. Aunts, uncles - real names to me. People who may die because war is the only answer.

Now please, don't ever ever suggest to me that I might believe in something so naive as an Utopian society. It is a cheapening of my viewpoint that we haven't, as a society, as a world, found a better solution to conflict. A solution to conflict that doesn't involve mass loss of life is not equal to the idealistic, popular cultural representation that is Utopia.

I may not support the war - though, let me repeat this as it obviously didn't get through the first time - I recognise it's necessity and inevitability.

[This message has been edited by Severn (03-08-2003 12:52 AM).]

Lucie
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13 posted 03-08-2003 02:42 AM       View Profile for Lucie   Email Lucie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lucie

I wonder.... does anyone else think that maybe what we hear from the media and our government is not the complete truth of it all?

Remember me with a smile on your face, or please don't remember me at all.

Aenimal
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14 posted 03-08-2003 01:59 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Such is the human race. Often it does seem such a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat.
~Mark Twain
Wind
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15 posted 03-08-2003 06:16 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

I didn't mean for this to lead to debate. I only wanted to know how others felt about the topic. But I see it from both veiws.

the Wind is invisible.
        remeber me

Severn
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16 posted 03-08-2003 08:18 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

topics like this generally do lead to debate sweetie...specially with big mouths like us around

K
Skyfire
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17 posted 03-08-2003 09:02 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Don't worry about it hun, we're always up for a debate hehe

Sometimes you find a friend where once there wasn't one. Sometimes you find a love where once there was a friend.

Wind
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18 posted 03-08-2003 10:08 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

Yeah... I just hate starting it.

the Wind is invisible.
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Jamie
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19 posted 03-09-2003 12:56 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

I am sure one could add 'oil' to the list of items included in the following by W.E. Woodward, as well as assume close proximity is no longer much of a factor as well.

"We Americans cannot conceive of a war without a moral backgound...It may now be accepted as a principle that any weak saddle-colored nation that happens to be situated near us and also happens to possess a lot of mahogany or hemp or goldmines had better look out. We have our moral eye on such people and are likely to introduce American morality at any moment."

There is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar.
byron

Neeraja
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20 posted 03-09-2003 09:46 AM       View Profile for Neeraja   Email Neeraja   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Neeraja

I try to be not afraid... but it's more difficult each day... especially since my son (he is in the Dutch army) has had his shots against Antrax and more poisinous stuff!  He has to go there too when there is going to be a war... he has been to Kosovo and Bosnia already... as I wrote before on PIP, this is definatly NOT what I had in mind when he was just a newborn baby and I looked into his eyes for the first time...25 years ago.  I realise that there are so many parents like me... with son's and daughters in the army... I also realise that there are so many people afraid because of this threathening war... people in Irak and all over the world... people who never asked for war... who just want to live their lives like you and me...
Yes... I am afraid we can't stop this war... we can only make peace in our own families... our own envirements... that is something we CAN do!!! So what if we start from there... right now... right this minute!!!


Neeraja
winston
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21 posted 03-09-2003 12:47 PM       View Profile for winston   Email winston   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for winston

If I may be "allowed" in this great democracy of ours that is the U.S. of A. to say that it isn't Saddam Hussein, although his party is guilty of buying weapons from America, UK, France, Germany, and Russia. The weapons industry of our great democracy finances the paramilitaries in Columbia to fight their dirty war against the ordinary people of Columbia.
That trite propaganda piece that Mr Colin Powell did on TV recently, showing an allegedly working factory in Iraq, well, that was actually financed and fed by Her Majesty's Government of the UK.
THE ORDINARY MEN AND WOMEN OF AMERICA NEED TO GET THE STRENGTH TO SAY "NO" TO THE LIES REGARDLESS OF WHAT DIRECTION IT'S COMING FROM. I BEG THE ORDINARY AMERICANS NOT TO BE EMOTIONALLY OR PYSCHOLOGICALLY ABUSED OR BE SEDUCED BY THE POLITICIANS.

It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, & incumbency.
--G. "DUBYA" BUSH. June 14, 2001. Unaware of rolling TV camera.

Local Rebel
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22 posted 03-09-2003 02:03 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Small world Winston.

You do have the right to say that.

Here
Ron
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23 posted 03-09-2003 03:24 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Yep, he does.

And, fortunately, the rest of us have the right to completely ignore allegations presented without any effort to support them.
JP
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24 posted 03-09-2003 05:17 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I guess I'm too pragmatic.  I see what has happened in the past, what may or may have not led to the situation we find ourselves in now and I think to myself "what does it matter?  If I sold weapons to this man 20 years ago, and now he wants to use those weapons against me do I let him just because I sold them to him?"  Heck no.  I defend myself, take action, do whatever needs to be done.  Hindsight is 20/20 and does nothing to change the reality of the present, particularly if that present demnonstrates a true threat against our national security and the security of the world.  

Does it really matter how we got here?  Particularly since we ARE here? http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum76/HTML/003142.html

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

 
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