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Passions in Poetry

Who else is afraid?

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rkcraig
Member
since 02-27-2003
Posts 212
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA


25 posted 03-10-2003 01:00 AM       View Profile for rkcraig   Email rkcraig   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rkcraig

this is for annonymous female

we may not be the only country heading into war, but we have over 250,000 plus troops over there involved in the conflict, all other countries combined total less than 50,000.  it is always about America because we are the only ones who will stand up to tyrants and leaders who murder there own people, wouldn't you want the same for your country?
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


26 posted 03-10-2003 01:35 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

rkcraig:

Your ignorance is ridiculous.

quote:
we have over 250,000 plus troops over there involved in the conflict, all other countries combined total less than 50,000.  it is always about America because we are the only ones who will stand up to tyrants and leaders who murder there own people, wouldn't you want the same for your country?


Are you serious? Hmm...let's compare the population of your country - what 220 million or something isn't it? - to a country such as Australia - anonymous female's country...

My my...go and do your math and figure out the difference.

But really, I was wondering if you had heard of per head of capita ratios before?

I doubt it.

quote:
it is always about America because we are the only ones who will stand up to tyrants


And more importantly - how dare you imply that because the combined force of other countries is so much less than that of the states, those other countries are contributing less.

That's 50,000 human lives my friend. FIFTY THOUSAND HUMAN LIVES.


anonymousfemale
Member Ascendant
since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304
Limbo


27 posted 03-10-2003 09:01 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

rkcraig:

I'm not sure whether to be insulted or laugh. It's arrogant attitudes like yours that really darken what should be unity for PEACE not hatred. To pick one of the many countries involved in this conflict, Australia's population is around that of 19 million. America's is around 287 million. I notice a massive difference there but to insinuate that because our National Defence is incredibly smaller than that of yours we contribute less to global situations is infuriating. Are you over there at the moment, defending your countries "freedom"? I didn't think so.  

quote:
it is always about America because we are the only ones who will stand up to tyrants and leaders who murder there own people, wouldn't you want the same for your country?

Ever heard of East Timor? I suggest you look that up and then come back and say that Americans are the only ones that will face up to tyrants as you put it. Or even better, do a history check and tell me what you come up with. Do not ever sit there and say that the combined forces of parties concerned with this current problem don't counter the numbers of America and therefore can't possibly stand up to tyrants. As Severn said:

quote:
That's 50,000 human lives my friend. FIFTY THOUSAND HUMAN LIVES.


Thanks for adding, Severn, BTW.

I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


28 posted 03-10-2003 12:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

just a quick reminder -- Mr. craig is only one of 287 million Americans -- probably not the only one that feels that way -- but one.  For his willingness to serve I offer my thanks... for his jingo jangling -- I offer my apologies on behalf of my countrymen.
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


29 posted 03-10-2003 10:50 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I love to read the Psalms when I am afraid.


"God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble.  Therefore we will not fear, though the Earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, and the mountains quake with their surging.  Selah"

Psalm 46:1-2


When wars and rumors of wars are rampant, and fear is a common ailment, I find that God is the only real source of inner peace.  


Stephen.

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (03-10-2003 10:50 PM).]

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


30 posted 03-11-2003 12:27 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



(sigh) No one wants this war, yes, so many I've heard repeat this are right, what makes me laugh is the ludicrous dialogue that war is inevitable! Yes, possibly it is, but only because so many out there are too lazy to do anything, they are all just feeling hopeless and this weakness is what is going to lead to war. We've had strong protest marches indeed, but their sizes can amass so much larger. Everyone who says they don't want this war but sit back and listen to the news should be ashamed of themselves, it is these kind of people that make me afraid, not those who are designing the ideas of this pending war.



Love,
Noah Eaton


"Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..."

Shakira

[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (03-11-2003 12:27 AM).]

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


31 posted 03-11-2003 01:56 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thank you, Stephen. It's so easy to get caught up in the current climate and not have our minds be where they need to be to experience the only real peace that there is anyway.
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


32 posted 03-12-2003 12:25 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Noah, I feel you are also displaying ignorance - even if it's meant well...

I very much doubt that 'laziness' has anything to do with a disability to find an answer that doesn't involve war...

What exactly do you think a protest march will achieve? What? Tell me.

K
Mistletoe Angel
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since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


33 posted 03-12-2003 12:17 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I never said that protest marches would be the answer to "preventing" such a war, but they are symbolic to the degree of how we feel, and they can justify the fact that we don't WANT this war. Countless times I've heard people say "No sane person wants this war" but that it's going to happen. What's insane to me is how many are letting this happen, and I don't mean only from the grass roots! It seems we are all being SLAPP-ed in the face, the government caring little about the participation of the public, yet I also feel we are not demonstrating enough of our justifications because we assume that those on the branches will give us blank stares and so we mute, giving the leaders the assumption everyone is cooperating.

That's what scares me.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..."

Shakira

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


34 posted 03-13-2003 03:03 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Hey Noah...I appreciate your answer to my question. This statement of yours:

quote:
the ludicrous dialogue that war is inevitable! Yes, possibly it is, but only because so many out there are too lazy to do anything...everyone who says they don't want this war but sit back and listen to the news should be ashamed of themselves


is what lead me to question you in the first place. To narrow it down further: 'war is inevitable...but only because so many out there are too lazy...'

And then in your second post you do hit upon the key word: 'symbolic'

quote:
they are symbolic to the degree of how we feel, and they can justify the fact that we don't WANT this war


It is all symbolic my friend. Anything the little people do enmasse - symbolic.

I'm afraid that the US government (and the British, and the Spanish, and the Australian governments etc etc) are very aware of the feelings against the war Noah. Do you believe that if these feelings were shouted out more loudly, by more 'non-lazy' people, that the governments would somehow cease what they are doing? The leaders have zero assumption that we are mute and blind. Rather, the governments are aware of the ideologies that shape our society...if we are mute and blind toward anything - it is toward the truth of 'freedom' and 'liberty' that we believe our social systems are based around.

You protest the inevitability of war quite strongly. You imply that if people were not so lazy that war could be averted. So please, if you will, give me a solution that is feasible, workable, and able to be put into place this month that will prevent a war.

You won't be able to, I guarantee it. And please don't talk about a Utopian dream of some 'great love' because I did ask for feasible and workable...

K

[This message has been edited by Severn (03-13-2003 03:05 AM).]

defenestrate
Junior Member
since 01-10-2003
Posts 47
nc, us


35 posted 03-13-2003 04:04 AM       View Profile for defenestrate   Email defenestrate   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for defenestrate

i can't really rationalize being afraid, because there's not a lot i can do. however, i think it's rather disappointing that humanity is willing to settle for massive loss of life-just another example of man settling for less than excellence in all things. it's not my call to make, but if we're really planning on destroying ourselves, i hope it happens before i'm too old to see it. i'm so weary of all of this propaganda and posturing and politicism and indoctrination. i'd see everything i love burn before i'd condone any of it.
machiner
Member
since 03-13-2003
Posts 66
MA, US


36 posted 03-13-2003 11:25 PM       View Profile for machiner   Email machiner   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit machiner's Home Page   View IP for machiner

JP, I think perhaps you have sand in your eyes.

"and please, for the sake of your sanity, if you have to blame someone, make sure you are blaming those who truely caused it.  America did not start what may or may not happen (we haven't gone to war yet, remember?)  Bush did not cause the war.  Saddam caused it, Saddam created the conflict, Saddam is the one to blame.  Our country and those allies who have the intestines to stand with us (thank you UK and others), are not starting this possible war, we are preparing to end it. "


I'm glad to have the freedoms I do in America, sure enough.  I was a soldier 8 years...now hush.

But when you peer out over the blinders and pay attention to the pigs that run our country, and others, and know what they do...and how they beguile and build the world that is ours, sure enough you would quake from embarassment.

Truth is noone's bitch.  

sea_of_okc
Senior Member
since 06-15-99
Posts 595
Oklahoma City, OK, USA


37 posted 03-14-2003 10:28 AM       View Profile for sea_of_okc   Email sea_of_okc   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sea_of_okc

I would prefer the american government find and fund a middle eastern faction to topple the Iraqi government from within whether it be by coup, by civil war or just by killing Saddam. What worries me is why is Bush so determined to have this be an armed conflict? Does he want an American friendly goverment in Iraq? Does he want to further the cause of peace in the middle east? Or does he think it will improve his approval rating in the U.S. perhaps divert our attention from our flagging economy? Hmmmm

I agree something needs to be done about Saddam but I think war should be our last alternative and I don't believe that time has yet come unfortunately world leaders will do as they wish.

rkcraig as a fellow American I am embarassed and shamed by your comments. Our allies have always contributed what they could and I hope our international poets here understand that your opinion is the minority. Something for you to think about Rk: If a millionaire contributes $50K to a cause and a dirt poor person contributes $10 who is making the greater sacrifice???

Peace and love all
 
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