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Passions in Poetry

agony hits me, now, every time...

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VAS
Member Rara Avis
since 11-16-2000
Posts 7440
Oregon


0 posted 10-19-2002 01:57 PM       View Profile for VAS   Email VAS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for VAS


Gossamer and Gossamer wings have been favorite words of mine. Yet they have been used so often, in various themes and textures of poems, that the words now bring me agony and tears to my heart. It's as if my soul is being wrung out by two uncaring hands. I don't know how else to explain it. Does anyone else feel such agony? How does one approach telling the author of a fantastic poem, save the wrenching of one's spirit by the over use of this lovely image?  It's more than a pet peeve...it brings the salt of tears close to the brim, yet I cannot cry out their release, so they remain on the verge, all the more aching.

Whether on the shoal or on the shore,
I'll seek the lighthouse evermore.

Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


1 posted 10-19-2002 03:16 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Brad, the Mod in CA, cringes when someone uses the word 'soul' in poetry.

Do you think we are not going to our Thesauras often enough?

What is it about the word(s)that enamors you so?
VAS
Member Rara Avis
since 11-16-2000
Posts 7440
Oregon


2 posted 10-19-2002 04:35 PM       View Profile for VAS   Email VAS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for VAS

it used to be a delicate touch, as of butterfly wings, or angel wings, almost too gentl to feel, yet there, nonetheless...and now,it only inspires a sense of tears, like it has been violated from overuse, or maybe it's a little like when someone is expecting the softest, gentlest kiss that barely touches the cheek or earlobe, and what they get is a violent, overly-passionate pressing of lips that are much like petting a cat the wrong direction

Whether on the shoal or on the shore,
I'll seek the lighthouse evermore.

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


3 posted 10-19-2002 05:26 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

I think we have to remember somethings when we discuss "cliched" ... overused" etc.

We, who post and read here in PIP and various other poetry sites read A LOT of poetry...some of us read hundreds a week...so we are going to see these metaphors, phrases and rhyme words used more often...we are over exposed to poetry overall.
We have to remember that when anyone learning to write uses a "cliche" or a common poetic term it is often new to them...and also there are certain metaphors or symbols that a poet will use as a trademark, or its personal to the meaning of their poetry and must be used to make the poetry express what they need to say
Like I used butterflies in my theme tribute poetry for Vante'when I first came here..it was a symbol that meant something special to him and in order to write about him, it became part of the poetry...I didnt care if it was "cliche" to some who read...the poetry was written for him and me. Sometimes thats the only reason poets write.

I have several friends who dont write a word of poetry and dont read poetry on-line at all...but love and read poetry books and fiction, at their request--I send them my work and other fave poets from here and they always say that nothing is "cliche" to them.
Even when someone uses a common symbol like
"butterflies or angels."
Because they are not exposed to so much poetry as we are..these terms are fresh.

The "average" book buying public is not as innundated with poetry terms as we are.
They just read and enjoy and dont look so hard at the structure and ect.

And lets face it...there are only so many words, terms, phrases and etc that are going to not be overused...it's up to us as poets and lovers of reading poetry to challenge ourselves to find new ways of saying whats already been said...but we also have to be able to keep an open mind about the reasons someone choses a particular word or symbol.

Try not to let it take away from your enjoyment of poetry Virginia...we all are learning as we go.

Unknown to us, there are moments when crevices open for time to come alive with begining.

John O'Donohue
Conamara Blues

VAS
Member Rara Avis
since 11-16-2000
Posts 7440
Oregon


4 posted 10-19-2002 06:12 PM       View Profile for VAS   Email VAS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for VAS

Oh, I know you are right Janet...I use clichés too, and I see lots of other clichés that don't bother me. For some reason, this one does, and it scratches. It's good to talk about it though, rather than risk hurting someone by particularly remarking it to them about a specific poem.

Whether on the shoal or on the shore,
I'll seek the lighthouse evermore.

S Arthur Grey
Senior Member
since 03-19-2001
Posts 727
woven by a poet's loom


5 posted 10-19-2002 08:49 PM       View Profile for S Arthur Grey   Email S Arthur Grey   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for S Arthur Grey

The curmudgeon critic finds poetic cliches everywhere (I don't mean to say you are of curmudgeon mind, VAS) while the novice poet has yet to spot them.
I know I've used them, but for the sake of my writing development, I don't worry about it until they stand out in my own editing and rewriting.  And my own repeated phrases are as likely to glare back at me.
But just how "original" can we be?  
Try to write your next poem using nothing that is familiar to your ear from your previous poems and see how far you get.  The more you write the harder it becomes.  Some poets quit writing because of this.
Poems, original from first line to last, are wonderful things, and rare.
brian madden
Member Elite
since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532
ireland


6 posted 10-20-2002 10:24 AM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

Gossamer and Gossamer wings, to the reader these words would not be cliche but I know what you mean. I think it happens to every poet, you are writing a piece searching for a word and your mind immediately offers that one phrase. I guess the only thing to do is write a list of all these words you are guilty of over using and vow that you are not going to use them. It might be frustrating but it will be an interesting exercise, and will help you coin new phrases.


Another thought a word or phrase is cliché only within a context, words like “heart, love or soul” are not cliché, it’s the way the context in which they are used. SO the phrase Gossamer wings will suit some poems perfectly and wouldn’t work in others.


El riesgo vive siempre!

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


7 posted 10-20-2002 12:26 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Oh Virginia...I know this feeling.  Perhaps it is up to you, as we all enjoy our own favorite words of fancy, to place these very words in lines that you have not yet seen before, to make them once again special not only to you, but to us, that read, as Janet Marie points out, so much...so that we can feel the special glint about them, once again...
VAS
Member Rara Avis
since 11-16-2000
Posts 7440
Oregon


8 posted 10-20-2002 12:34 PM       View Profile for VAS   Email VAS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for VAS

I'm almost chuckling to myself, for as I came in to read your response, I saw the line up of topics...mine: "Agony hits me..." the one just below:  "Get over it."

LOL

Thanks for your response. I guess it's a lot like a song that gets stuck in your mind in rewind and stays so long that you don't want to hear it again for a decade or more.

Whether on the shoal or on the shore,
I'll seek the lighthouse evermore.

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