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Passions in Poetry

WHO DEFINES BEAUTY?

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Lisann
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since 01-31-2001
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0 posted 08-18-2002 12:23 AM       View Profile for Lisann   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lisann

I apologize for my frustration but.....I am so sick and tired of hearing 95% of people in the world saying things like "oh she's beautiful......" because she's skinny and blonde.
  I'm sorry but I DO NOT agree with that adage...."beauty is only skin deep" that is total b.s.  Beauty is beneath the skin.  True beauty is found within NOT without.  It is the media that is pushing their images to the world....IT is the the media who controls our minds....because we let them....they are the ones that is TELLING us what is beautiful...We know NOTHING about these people....these models that they portray in the mags and on tv commercials.....movies......everything....it is all hype.  They continually spew crap telling us that you have to be skinny and "made up" to be beautiful...
   I have a friend.......she is so beautiful.......in my opinion both within and without..but.......following the media guideline........that same media guideline that more than 90% of people follow.......no one would give her a second look because she is slightly overweight.  
   She has the most beautiful gentle loving heart....she has the soul of an angel...she really does.  But because of all the media crap....the mental images that they portray to everyone else......she has a negative self image.  She thinks no one will even look at her because of her weight.....I have told her so many times that she was the most beautiful woman i have ever met....and i know that it doesn't mean anything to her because i'm not a guy....i'm just a friend.  Friends are supposed to think that.  She thinks the same damn thing that the media forces upon us......the skinny, blonde made up women are beautiful.  I absolutely hate hearing her and the rest of my co-workers say "wow...she's gorgeous..did you see the bod on her?"   Even Jane says that.......just because of her outer appearance it must mean she is beautiful....when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without.   Beauty is found in the purity of heart. And as long as we continue to have this distorted image of what beauty is supposed to be we are going to miss out on a whole lot of beautiful.....incredible experiences in life.  And that is just sad.....pathetic.   I HATE THIS BS......someone........please tell me that we can change this.......someone.......tell me that we can make someone see the beauty within themselves........to look beyond the mirror.
Larry C
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1 posted 08-18-2002 12:39 AM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Lisann,
All are well stated arguments and so true. Except...you can't make someone like themselves anymore than you can make someone happy. Those happen to be personal choices. And they are not choices that are always easily made. However, having a good friend like you goes a long ways to overcoming some of the challenges a person may have in making those choices. It isn't easy to figure out that opinions matter most when they come from people you know, love and respect.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Sunshine
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2 posted 08-18-2002 09:05 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Lisann, it is people like you who take exception to the media's hype that will change it.  Unfortunately, not everyone has your sense and sensibility, and there are going to be those shallow people who think that their beauty will get them through life, but as you very well know...

it is the people who stand tall because of their backbone and large giving hearts that do the most in this world...

So...take your feelings here, clean up the wording a little, and publish it in your school paper.  Will you get flack at first from the "in group" who is all about outward beauty?  Yes.  But in your convictions lie the truth, and change has to start somewhere.  

I applaud you!  
Dark Enchantress
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since 07-27-99
Posts 1460
meet Morgana


3 posted 08-18-2002 07:57 PM       View Profile for Dark Enchantress   Email Dark Enchantress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Dark Enchantress's Home Page   View IP for Dark Enchantress

That's why I hate and won't read teen magazines.

That's why I swear that if I ever became a famous musician I'd have "ugly" people in all of my videos.. as nude as possible.

That's why it's so easy for me to do the exact opposite of what is expected of me.

"Yeah, swallow that gravy. (Edit)"

My favourite saying.. sigh.

"you don't need one of these to let me inside of you" T.A.

Alexia
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4 posted 08-18-2002 10:46 PM       View Profile for Alexia   Email Alexia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alexia

I agree! Finally someone feels the same way I do. All of the guys I know are like ... I want a blonde, long hair, size 2. Blah Blah Blah .. 99.9% of the guys I meet, blow you off b/c your not paper thin, and I don't have blonde hair.  
Proven fact: One of my friends has dark brown hair, she didn't get alot of men .. But then she dyed her hair blonde ... all the guys went after her .. And I asked one of my guy friends why do you want a blonde? He's like blonde's are more fun? Yeah he got an ear full ... Anyways ..
I think you can have dark hair, but chunky and still be beautifull. Well thats what I hafta say
Peace Alexia

*Love might not make the world go round but it's what makes the ride worth while*

Savage Quiescence
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since 07-29-2002
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Wandering


5 posted 08-18-2002 11:09 PM       View Profile for Savage Quiescence   Email Savage Quiescence   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Savage Quiescence

What breaks my heart is that most of the younger girls who are being fed all of this do not realize that most of the images they see in magazines are air-brushed. And oh, the miracles of stage makeup.

My brother's girlfriend is not overweight, but she does have a bigger build than most of your typical females. She actually has meat on her bones. And personally, I think that she is so much more beautiful than all these little twits you see prancing around that think they are just "it".

I will admit, I am, I guess what you would consider "skinny", not because I do not eat (how could one live without chocolate?), but simply by genes. But that is -not- what I find confidence in. So please, PLEASE, know that not all of us "skinny" girls think that we are all that, simply for that fact. There is hope out there! Just do not give up on us. And everyone, please avoid stereotypes.

~Sky

"Whatever life brings, I've been through everything, but now I'm on my knees again" -Creed

Toerag
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since 07-29-99
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Ala bam a


6 posted 08-19-2002 12:03 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

As a young man, I looked for a figure,
A fine rear end, and a chest much bigger,
A face like an angel, a waist like a thimble,
Looks were important, it all seemed simple

But age makes one change,
Looks are deceiving,
It's not the beauty outside,
But the thoughts worth receiving.

They say that beauty's,
In the eye of the beholder,
And what's beautiful to me,
Changed since I've grown older.
bsquirrel
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7 posted 08-19-2002 01:00 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

It's important too, to realize that some skin-deep beautiful people are also beautiful on the inside, too. I know many people like this. But I don't find the media image of beauty anywhere near beautiful -- more abhorrent than anything. I don't want to see someone's ribs while they're dancing. And give me dark hair any day. And how about a bust size that's actually PROPORTIONAL and NATURAL? Sheesh, you don't get much of that in Southern California, sadly.

Oh, and to answer your question of who defines beauty ... we all do, in our choices and our attitudes.

[This message has been edited by bsquirrel (08-19-2002 01:02 PM).]

Anvrill
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since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


8 posted 08-19-2002 02:59 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

The most beautiful girl I know is a big, big girl. A redhead. Naturally. Green eyes. The ideals of a 5-year-old. My best friend.

She has such a beautiful face, and such an awe-inspiring bustline. I've taken many a picture of her that would prove to any sane person that big can still be beautiful, but she herself refuses to believe it, even though everyone else we know does...

She doesn't believe it because of Hollywood.

We watch movies, she'll say "I could never look like that."

She doesn't believe it because of cartoons.

We were flipping past the mid-90s Batman cartoon, and watched this episode where catwoman had mutated into a half-cat thing, and my friend was like "Even if I mutated, I could never look like that!"

Makes me want to strangle her. Even I will admit of myself that I look awesome sometimes, and I have dangerously oogie self esteem problems.

One of the least beautiful girls I know weighs 110 pounds (is desperate to bring it back down to 100 again) and blonde. She just looks gangly and ill.

And I think it must definitely prove something's wrong with our world when the warm, hyper, beautiful Manda is terrified of what would happen if her boyfriend ever left her because she's convinced she'll be alone forever, while the cold, self-centered, pokey (hip-bones are not attractive, hon, curves are) Sarah has a new boy-toy every month.

Though I do understand that at Sarah's age (she's a year younger than me; she just graduated high school), 'trophy girls' are more important. Guys that age need to prove a point.

'Course, if they want to yell out "look what I caught!" as they parade around their anorexic blondes, here's my response:

"Keep it!"

I'm ever the cynic, huh?

i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

Anvrill
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since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


9 posted 08-19-2002 03:11 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

Oh, oh, oh! One more thing.  

Second most beautiful girl I know is the tallest girl I've met (about six feet), and shockingly skinny through genetics that we all hate her for. Oh yes, we all do.

She's a glamour-goddess, although she just chopped off alllll her gloriously thick waist-long ash-brown hair.

She's always wearin' red-tinted sunglasses, cap-sleeve shirts, shiny jeans, flowy scarves. Has gladiator sandals with deadly heels.

She is a poet, a songstress, obsessed with U2 beyond the point where it's healthy.  

She's my evil twin. Or I'm hers? We're the L-A twins. Lori-Anne and Leonie-Arianne, born a month apart. (Well, one day off a month apart.) Of course, the short chubby one's the oldest.

Anyway, I am going to one day kill her and steal her ability to inhale food and not be able to gain weight. At all. Ever. Even if she tried, and she has tried.

Anyway again, she looks nothing like the Hollywood stereotype, either. She's be put under the category of 'plain' by those evil people, cast into some sort of unnoticable extra's position. Grr.

She's insane, outrageous, and beautiful.

The problem is, she calls me hot, then refuses to comment on herself, even when she's totally out there and hyper.

Another girl who needs to be slapped.

And when we're together, we somehow accidently get what we call "groupies". What other people (people not wanting to make music professionaly someday) would call "stalkers".

Don't ask me! I don't understand either.

Anyway.

Again.

This concludes my contribution, for now, and maybe forever. Eh.


i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

[This message has been edited by Anvrill (08-19-2002 03:13 PM).]

Moon Dust
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since 06-11-99
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Skelmersdale, UK


10 posted 08-19-2002 03:16 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

Ok i'm blonde and skinny but I'm not all that good looking. There are downsides to being skinny I look terrible. You dont know the lenghts I go though to just be that little bit bigger. But its my natrual build I'm small and some people mistake me for being forteen. Thing is when your young looks mean everything. Even I thought you had to be blonde and skinny to have a boyfriend. But people realise when they get a bit older that its not the case. Your friend will realise in time that she can be beauiful without being skinny and blonde.  I mean I used to only like guy's that were muscly but now I don't care as long as they have a good personallity.    

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

Christopher
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11 posted 08-19-2002 03:26 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

well - as Mike alluded, thin people can be beautiful as well... but what about the people who don't match, as they presumably do - the ideal shown in popular media? as said above (more than once, i believe) they are hated... is that any better, really, than not being liked because you don't fit this ideal? you say beauty is on the inside, then judge someone in a negative fashion because they are "beautiful?" that seems oxymoronic to me, not to mention a tad bit hypocritical.

a second point of view - thin people, athletic people, et al: through their appearance, they can show that they care how they look, and are willing to put the time, effort, and sacrifice required to keep their bodies in shape. some don't do it properly, but tell me that eating poorly is any better than eating too much, and i'll call you wrong.

what i see, isn't that "big" people think they should be considered beautiful as well (because, i agree, they certainly can be) but instead, often use the fact that they don't conform to a societal ideal as an excuse to not focus on keeping in shape. truthfully, from a guy who prefers slimmer women (though i've been with those who aren't as well, all beautiful people inside and out): in a woman who is slender, i see someone who not only cares about her appearance, but allows it to show. she is probably in better health than someone who is considerably overweight, and will also probably be able to keep up with me when i am active, where a larger person probably couldn't.

i think the ideal runs to slimmer women (though i agree that really thin is something i find no more attractive than really big) because of these reasons.

besides, it's all relative, right? i don't hear women saying "man, Chris Farley is hot!" nope, i hear y'all saying "Van Diesel is a babe!" - so, my op, step back and take a look at yourself, your actions, and expectations, before you start blaming society for something that you do as well.

FWIW: when i use the word "you" in this, i use it as a collective term and not directed at any individuals.
Christopher
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12 posted 08-19-2002 03:43 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

and another interesting issue in line with this one:

confidence has a lot to do with how a person is perceived by another; there is in us that part which shows how we feel about ourselves. if we don't feel confident, don't feel that we're worthy, then how can we expect someone else to believe it. cynical as it may sound, half of life is selling yourself in one manner or another.

ok, i can hear you saying right now how popular media makes you feel bad because you aren't "paper thin" (which, by the way, with a few exceptions is no longer the "ideal." take a look at the magazines - i have - and you'll notice that women, specifically, are no longer as thin as they used to be; now, they are showing people whose ribs actually have something more than skin over it, fleshier thighs, etc.) anyway, you say media, because it's true that they don't generally show large women as being the ideal.

but, and it's a big but (no pun intended, no plus) - how the hell do women get to grab all the misery and self-loathing? we men have been competing against muscle men and the hefty, hunky types for as many years as women have against anorexia. tell me then why you get to have esteem problems for not meeting up to the supposed societal ideal, when we men don't generally sweat it?

and before you answer that question (possibly with something along the lines of how women are more attracted to personality and don't care about how a man looks) ask yourself, honestly, what you think when you see Chris Farley, and what you think when you see Van Diesel. i know many, many women, and while I've never heard "Tom Arnold and Marlon Brando are so hot!" I have heard "Ben Affleck and Brad Pitt are BEAUTIFUL!" *swoon*

it works both ways... what was that one thread about? can't have your cake and eat it too?
Anvrill
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since 06-21-2002
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13 posted 08-19-2002 04:08 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

I myself find that I like most of my guys to be unhealthily thin.   Ah, growing up with rock-star idols like Bowie will do that to you...

But anyway, I think the basic biological shape for a woman to be to get men's instincts saying "this is a breeder" is the breast to waist to hip ratio. The hourglass figure. Seriously, a girl with a really great hourglass figure is going to be much better at bearing children than little miss stick figure or big miss apple belly.

What with all the weird ideals going on in our society, of course, it seems that women are terrified to let themselves be in a natural state like that. And depression over the hollywood ideal is what makes most morbidly obese (meaning serious risk to their own health) women just that. The obsessive dieting can do more damage than just eating. :P

Grr.

And I never said media-beautiful people are bad. I only said the presumably attractive anorexic ex-friend of mine is one of the least attractive to me, personality and body-wise. I was friends with her a looong time before I figured out I really couldn't stand it, though. And it took her sleeping with all the guys I had a chance with before I really got too angry. Whee.

Oh, and every girl I know has the hots for Silent Bob. Yep, as in "Jay and". The man called "lunchbox" and "tubby bitch" in all his movies is quite attractive. And Robert Smith, who started out gaunt and has grown to bigger-than-teddy-bear, is still amazingly attractive, even in his middle age. And Meat Loaf has had his moments where I could understand why someone would be willing to make wild, passionate love to him.  

I'm terrible, I know.

But seriously. I'm just getting out of being a teen girl, which is the worst time and gender for judging appearance. Period. Exclamation mark. And I have been in lust (and maybe love) with a male of every body type. From thin to fat, from jock to wuss-boy.

Although I think when it comes to partners... Girls are less picky about how the boy they're taking along with them looks.

These're just some thoughts...

And Brad Pitt is hot, but only because he's one weird dude and that catches my attention. He's probably the only "Hollywood hunk" I'll take a second look at.


i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

[This message has been edited by Anvrill (08-19-2002 04:09 PM).]

Anvrill
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since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


14 posted 08-19-2002 04:12 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

Oh, and when I see Chris Farley, I think "Yuck, immature, pointless comedy." When I see Vin Diesel, I think "Ew! Kill it! Kill it!"

i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

MidnightSon
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since 05-15-2002
Posts 328
between the gutter & the stars


15 posted 08-22-2002 05:00 AM       View Profile for MidnightSon   Email MidnightSon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for MidnightSon

lori: that hurts. i'm male and straight and all, but i know Vin's a lady killer.... (it vexes me to no avail, but i must concur with pop culture on that one. he's pretty hip.)
lol

lisann: read the prophet by Kahil Gibran (or at least the lil blurb in it on Beauty. i think you'll find it.... reassuring.

"beauty is not a need, but an ecstacy. it is not a mouth thirsting nor an empty hand stretched forth,
but rather a heart enflamed and a soul enchanted."

or to coin the cliche', it's many things to many people, but beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

btw i'm a skinny guy, but i like size 5 and 6 gals. when it looks like i'd break em in half with a hug, it's a turn off.
but that's me.

and word to chris bout bringing up the guy thing. this is one arguement that isn't one sided. why do i have to be a short haired/bald muscle head that drives an economy-car-turned-race-machine just to get a girl?
or for that matter, a pale, skinny, plaid wearing emo kid that wears hornrims with no lenses...
*blegh on convention*

it's our struggle for identity that leaves us all unknown

Toad
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since 06-16-2002
Posts 247


16 posted 08-22-2002 11:02 AM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad


Who defines beauty?

First of all you need to define which beauty you’re talking about, the external physical type or the internal character traits.

If you were asking about physical external beauty then I’d say that it’s down to individual choice, in which case if your figure of 95% were accurate skinny and blonde would seem to be the ideal.

If however you were talking about internal character traits such as kindness I’d have to say that such beauty is defined by the character inherent in the person and only recognised by individual.
quote:
beauty is only skin deep" that is total b.s. Beauty is beneath the skin. True beauty is found within NOT without

True beauty is actually found in both places and neither is subservient to the other, they are just different examples of the same thing.

Thank you for the chance to read and reply.
Moon Dust
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17 posted 08-22-2002 01:57 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

ok if a person isn't the typical blonde woman and shes pretty, not glamrous like on TV, if she had a good personailty then that would appify her beauty to more than a person on TV thats just a face to you.

No I think true beauty lies in confidence more that pysical apperance and also in personailty.

so in a way you can't say that you can only find beauty inside/outside because there are so many ways of being beauiful

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

brian madden
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since 05-06-2000
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ireland


18 posted 08-22-2002 08:31 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

The old saying “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” still holds true. Just as a side line comment a English tabloid that was lying around my house (IT was not mine, I don’t buy papers) featured a chart from some source or other that compares height and weight and decides whether you are over weight or not, the poll’s result meant that some one like Britney Spears was over weight. MY point is what if Hollywood or the media decides that what is slim is now fat…. Will we all be eating only lettuce leaves… Yes our society seems to thrust slim women with big breasts into the limelight, even Sophie Dahl (an English  model famous for being a size 14+)  has lost weight, we can all starve ourselves, trim certain parts bulk up other parts, dye our hair etc etc until we meet the criteria..what then. Chances are we are not going to feel any better. The main thing is to keep as healthy as you can,  and enjoy life. We are not all meant to be poster boy/girl bimbos and THANK GOD for that.

The sum of the angles of that rectangle is too monstrous to contemplate!

anya
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since 07-27-2002
Posts 397
london england


19 posted 08-23-2002 08:47 AM       View Profile for anya   Email anya   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anya

You can't worry that alot of people are so obsessed with image and don't bother with looking to in beauty, there is nothing anyone can do about it, all you can worry about is that you yourself can look past the exterior and leave others to their own shallow lives, it is them that will lose out, because physical beauty fades and one day they will relaise that. Here in england one magazine tried to use more 'normal' sized models, in other words they weren't twigs, and their sales went down dramatically, this really deppressed me when I heard it, I coudn't believe our society is so shallow but in the end I just count myself lucky that looks don't matter to me that much and i pity people who need to be told how to dress and and how to look, but i don't think there is really anything we can do to change it, the media is way too powerful
Toad
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20 posted 08-23-2002 10:21 AM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad


I do understand your point, you’re saying that they may possess physical beauty but they may not be nice people, but being nice people isn’t what models of this type are all about. They are reflections of what most people believe is physical beauty, if they weren’t the magazines would find their sales dropping dramatically, as in the above example.

The question of whether the magazines create false ideals and manipulate beliefs is debatable and probably has some foundation but first you have to define the ideals they are trying to manipulate, which I believe are traits of physical beauty.
Irie
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21 posted 09-06-2002 05:39 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

OK, I have thought about this too long now and what I wrote actually
made no sense!    
So, I have deleted my reply and will try again later.
For now I will have to say I agree with Chris ....

See, blondes aren't all they are made up to be,
I just overloaded my blonde head!

Oh, and not to be shallow....
But Chris .... Vin Diesel makes me melt!




[This message has been edited by Irie (09-06-2002 06:04 PM).]

Christopher
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22 posted 09-06-2002 07:54 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Sheri - i never said there was anything wrong with that, and personally, i don't think it's shallow... there's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone who obviously puts a lot of effort into being so... besides, i think he's hot too.  

[This message has been edited by Christopher (09-06-2002 08:28 PM).]

Opeth
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The Ravines


23 posted 09-07-2002 12:46 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I cannot believe this day has arrived...the day that I completely agree with what Chris had stated previously.
Trevor
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since 08-12-99
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Canada


24 posted 09-09-2002 10:32 PM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

I do.

*

Maybe there is no beauty only varying degrees of ugly.

Thanks,

Troy's brother
 
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