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Lisann
Member
since 2001-01-31
Posts 350


0 posted 2002-08-18 12:23 PM


I apologize for my frustration but.....I am so sick and tired of hearing 95% of people in the world saying things like "oh she's beautiful......" because she's skinny and blonde.
  I'm sorry but I DO NOT agree with that adage...."beauty is only skin deep" that is total b.s.  Beauty is beneath the skin.  True beauty is found within NOT without.  It is the media that is pushing their images to the world....IT is the the media who controls our minds....because we let them....they are the ones that is TELLING us what is beautiful...We know NOTHING about these people....these models that they portray in the mags and on tv commercials.....movies......everything....it is all hype.  They continually spew crap telling us that you have to be skinny and "made up" to be beautiful...
   I have a friend.......she is so beautiful.......in my opinion both within and without..but.......following the media guideline........that same media guideline that more than 90% of people follow.......no one would give her a second look because she is slightly overweight.  
   She has the most beautiful gentle loving heart....she has the soul of an angel...she really does.  But because of all the media crap....the mental images that they portray to everyone else......she has a negative self image.  She thinks no one will even look at her because of her weight.....I have told her so many times that she was the most beautiful woman i have ever met....and i know that it doesn't mean anything to her because i'm not a guy....i'm just a friend.  Friends are supposed to think that.  She thinks the same damn thing that the media forces upon us......the skinny, blonde made up women are beautiful.  I absolutely hate hearing her and the rest of my co-workers say "wow...she's gorgeous..did you see the bod on her?"   Even Jane says that.......just because of her outer appearance it must mean she is beautiful....when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without.   Beauty is found in the purity of heart. And as long as we continue to have this distorted image of what beauty is supposed to be we are going to miss out on a whole lot of beautiful.....incredible experiences in life.  And that is just sad.....pathetic.   I HATE THIS BS......someone........please tell me that we can change this.......someone.......tell me that we can make someone see the beauty within themselves........to look beyond the mirror.

© Copyright 2002 Lisann - All Rights Reserved
Larry C
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Member Patricius
since 2001-09-10
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United States
1 posted 2002-08-18 12:39 PM


Lisann,
All are well stated arguments and so true. Except...you can't make someone like themselves anymore than you can make someone happy. Those happen to be personal choices. And they are not choices that are always easily made. However, having a good friend like you goes a long ways to overcoming some of the challenges a person may have in making those choices. It isn't easy to figure out that opinions matter most when they come from people you know, love and respect.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Sunshine
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since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354
Listening to every heart
2 posted 2002-08-18 09:05 AM


Lisann, it is people like you who take exception to the media's hype that will change it.  Unfortunately, not everyone has your sense and sensibility, and there are going to be those shallow people who think that their beauty will get them through life, but as you very well know...

it is the people who stand tall because of their backbone and large giving hearts that do the most in this world...

So...take your feelings here, clean up the wording a little, and publish it in your school paper.  Will you get flack at first from the "in group" who is all about outward beauty?  Yes.  But in your convictions lie the truth, and change has to start somewhere.  

I applaud you!  

Dark Enchantress
Senior Member
since 1999-07-27
Posts 1258
meet Morgana
3 posted 2002-08-18 07:57 PM


That's why I hate and won't read teen magazines.

That's why I swear that if I ever became a famous musician I'd have "ugly" people in all of my videos.. as nude as possible.

That's why it's so easy for me to do the exact opposite of what is expected of me.

"Yeah, swallow that gravy. (Edit)"

My favourite saying.. sigh.

"you don't need one of these to let me inside of you" T.A.

Alexia
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Posts 164
Sweet And Sassy
4 posted 2002-08-18 10:46 PM


I agree! Finally someone feels the same way I do. All of the guys I know are like ... I want a blonde, long hair, size 2. Blah Blah Blah .. 99.9% of the guys I meet, blow you off b/c your not paper thin, and I don't have blonde hair.  
Proven fact: One of my friends has dark brown hair, she didn't get alot of men .. But then she dyed her hair blonde ... all the guys went after her .. And I asked one of my guy friends why do you want a blonde? He's like blonde's are more fun? Yeah he got an ear full ... Anyways ..
I think you can have dark hair, but chunky and still be beautifull. Well thats what I hafta say
Peace Alexia

*Love might not make the world go round but it's what makes the ride worth while*

Savage Quiescence
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since 2002-07-29
Posts 326
Wandering
5 posted 2002-08-18 11:09 PM


What breaks my heart is that most of the younger girls who are being fed all of this do not realize that most of the images they see in magazines are air-brushed. And oh, the miracles of stage makeup.

My brother's girlfriend is not overweight, but she does have a bigger build than most of your typical females. She actually has meat on her bones. And personally, I think that she is so much more beautiful than all these little twits you see prancing around that think they are just "it".

I will admit, I am, I guess what you would consider "skinny", not because I do not eat (how could one live without chocolate?), but simply by genes. But that is -not- what I find confidence in. So please, PLEASE, know that not all of us "skinny" girls think that we are all that, simply for that fact. There is hope out there! Just do not give up on us. And everyone, please avoid stereotypes.

~Sky

"Whatever life brings, I've been through everything, but now I'm on my knees again" -Creed

Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 1999-07-29
Posts 5622
Ala bam a
6 posted 2002-08-19 12:03 PM


As a young man, I looked for a figure,
A fine rear end, and a chest much bigger,
A face like an angel, a waist like a thimble,
Looks were important, it all seemed simple

But age makes one change,
Looks are deceiving,
It's not the beauty outside,
But the thoughts worth receiving.

They say that beauty's,
In the eye of the beholder,
And what's beautiful to me,
Changed since I've grown older.

bsquirrel
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7 posted 2002-08-19 01:00 PM


It's important too, to realize that some skin-deep beautiful people are also beautiful on the inside, too. I know many people like this. But I don't find the media image of beauty anywhere near beautiful -- more abhorrent than anything. I don't want to see someone's ribs while they're dancing. And give me dark hair any day. And how about a bust size that's actually PROPORTIONAL and NATURAL? Sheesh, you don't get much of that in Southern California, sadly.

Oh, and to answer your question of who defines beauty ... we all do, in our choices and our attitudes.

[This message has been edited by bsquirrel (08-19-2002 01:02 PM).]

Anvrill
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since 2002-06-21
Posts 710
in the interzone now
8 posted 2002-08-19 02:59 PM


The most beautiful girl I know is a big, big girl. A redhead. Naturally. Green eyes. The ideals of a 5-year-old. My best friend.

She has such a beautiful face, and such an awe-inspiring bustline. I've taken many a picture of her that would prove to any sane person that big can still be beautiful, but she herself refuses to believe it, even though everyone else we know does...

She doesn't believe it because of Hollywood.

We watch movies, she'll say "I could never look like that."

She doesn't believe it because of cartoons.

We were flipping past the mid-90s Batman cartoon, and watched this episode where catwoman had mutated into a half-cat thing, and my friend was like "Even if I mutated, I could never look like that!"

Makes me want to strangle her. Even I will admit of myself that I look awesome sometimes, and I have dangerously oogie self esteem problems.

One of the least beautiful girls I know weighs 110 pounds (is desperate to bring it back down to 100 again) and blonde. She just looks gangly and ill.

And I think it must definitely prove something's wrong with our world when the warm, hyper, beautiful Manda is terrified of what would happen if her boyfriend ever left her because she's convinced she'll be alone forever, while the cold, self-centered, pokey (hip-bones are not attractive, hon, curves are) Sarah has a new boy-toy every month.

Though I do understand that at Sarah's age (she's a year younger than me; she just graduated high school), 'trophy girls' are more important. Guys that age need to prove a point.

'Course, if they want to yell out "look what I caught!" as they parade around their anorexic blondes, here's my response:

"Keep it!"

I'm ever the cynic, huh?

i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

Anvrill
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since 2002-06-21
Posts 710
in the interzone now
9 posted 2002-08-19 03:11 PM


Oh, oh, oh! One more thing.  

Second most beautiful girl I know is the tallest girl I've met (about six feet), and shockingly skinny through genetics that we all hate her for. Oh yes, we all do.

She's a glamour-goddess, although she just chopped off alllll her gloriously thick waist-long ash-brown hair.

She's always wearin' red-tinted sunglasses, cap-sleeve shirts, shiny jeans, flowy scarves. Has gladiator sandals with deadly heels.

She is a poet, a songstress, obsessed with U2 beyond the point where it's healthy.  

She's my evil twin. Or I'm hers? We're the L-A twins. Lori-Anne and Leonie-Arianne, born a month apart. (Well, one day off a month apart.) Of course, the short chubby one's the oldest.

Anyway, I am going to one day kill her and steal her ability to inhale food and not be able to gain weight. At all. Ever. Even if she tried, and she has tried.

Anyway again, she looks nothing like the Hollywood stereotype, either. She's be put under the category of 'plain' by those evil people, cast into some sort of unnoticable extra's position. Grr.

She's insane, outrageous, and beautiful.

The problem is, she calls me hot, then refuses to comment on herself, even when she's totally out there and hyper.

Another girl who needs to be slapped.

And when we're together, we somehow accidently get what we call "groupies". What other people (people not wanting to make music professionaly someday) would call "stalkers".

Don't ask me! I don't understand either.

Anyway.

Again.

This concludes my contribution, for now, and maybe forever. Eh.


i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

[This message has been edited by Anvrill (08-19-2002 03:13 PM).]

Moon Dust
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10 posted 2002-08-19 03:16 PM


Ok i'm blonde and skinny but I'm not all that good looking. There are downsides to being skinny I look terrible. You dont know the lenghts I go though to just be that little bit bigger. But its my natrual build I'm small and some people mistake me for being forteen. Thing is when your young looks mean everything. Even I thought you had to be blonde and skinny to have a boyfriend. But people realise when they get a bit older that its not the case. Your friend will realise in time that she can be beauiful without being skinny and blonde.  I mean I used to only like guy's that were muscly but now I don't care as long as they have a good personallity.    

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

Christopher
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11 posted 2002-08-19 03:26 PM


well - as Mike alluded, thin people can be beautiful as well... but what about the people who don't match, as they presumably do - the ideal shown in popular media? as said above (more than once, i believe) they are hated... is that any better, really, than not being liked because you don't fit this ideal? you say beauty is on the inside, then judge someone in a negative fashion because they are "beautiful?" that seems oxymoronic to me, not to mention a tad bit hypocritical.

a second point of view - thin people, athletic people, et al: through their appearance, they can show that they care how they look, and are willing to put the time, effort, and sacrifice required to keep their bodies in shape. some don't do it properly, but tell me that eating poorly is any better than eating too much, and i'll call you wrong.

what i see, isn't that "big" people think they should be considered beautiful as well (because, i agree, they certainly can be) but instead, often use the fact that they don't conform to a societal ideal as an excuse to not focus on keeping in shape. truthfully, from a guy who prefers slimmer women (though i've been with those who aren't as well, all beautiful people inside and out): in a woman who is slender, i see someone who not only cares about her appearance, but allows it to show. she is probably in better health than someone who is considerably overweight, and will also probably be able to keep up with me when i am active, where a larger person probably couldn't.

i think the ideal runs to slimmer women (though i agree that really thin is something i find no more attractive than really big) because of these reasons.

besides, it's all relative, right? i don't hear women saying "man, Chris Farley is hot!" nope, i hear y'all saying "Van Diesel is a babe!" - so, my op, step back and take a look at yourself, your actions, and expectations, before you start blaming society for something that you do as well.

FWIW: when i use the word "you" in this, i use it as a collective term and not directed at any individuals.

Christopher
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12 posted 2002-08-19 03:43 PM


and another interesting issue in line with this one:

confidence has a lot to do with how a person is perceived by another; there is in us that part which shows how we feel about ourselves. if we don't feel confident, don't feel that we're worthy, then how can we expect someone else to believe it. cynical as it may sound, half of life is selling yourself in one manner or another.

ok, i can hear you saying right now how popular media makes you feel bad because you aren't "paper thin" (which, by the way, with a few exceptions is no longer the "ideal." take a look at the magazines - i have - and you'll notice that women, specifically, are no longer as thin as they used to be; now, they are showing people whose ribs actually have something more than skin over it, fleshier thighs, etc.) anyway, you say media, because it's true that they don't generally show large women as being the ideal.

but, and it's a big but (no pun intended, no plus) - how the hell do women get to grab all the misery and self-loathing? we men have been competing against muscle men and the hefty, hunky types for as many years as women have against anorexia. tell me then why you get to have esteem problems for not meeting up to the supposed societal ideal, when we men don't generally sweat it?

and before you answer that question (possibly with something along the lines of how women are more attracted to personality and don't care about how a man looks) ask yourself, honestly, what you think when you see Chris Farley, and what you think when you see Van Diesel. i know many, many women, and while I've never heard "Tom Arnold and Marlon Brando are so hot!" I have heard "Ben Affleck and Brad Pitt are BEAUTIFUL!" *swoon*

it works both ways... what was that one thread about? can't have your cake and eat it too?

Anvrill
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since 2002-06-21
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in the interzone now
13 posted 2002-08-19 04:08 PM


I myself find that I like most of my guys to be unhealthily thin.   Ah, growing up with rock-star idols like Bowie will do that to you...

But anyway, I think the basic biological shape for a woman to be to get men's instincts saying "this is a breeder" is the breast to waist to hip ratio. The hourglass figure. Seriously, a girl with a really great hourglass figure is going to be much better at bearing children than little miss stick figure or big miss apple belly.

What with all the weird ideals going on in our society, of course, it seems that women are terrified to let themselves be in a natural state like that. And depression over the hollywood ideal is what makes most morbidly obese (meaning serious risk to their own health) women just that. The obsessive dieting can do more damage than just eating. :P

Grr.

And I never said media-beautiful people are bad. I only said the presumably attractive anorexic ex-friend of mine is one of the least attractive to me, personality and body-wise. I was friends with her a looong time before I figured out I really couldn't stand it, though. And it took her sleeping with all the guys I had a chance with before I really got too angry. Whee.

Oh, and every girl I know has the hots for Silent Bob. Yep, as in "Jay and". The man called "lunchbox" and "tubby bitch" in all his movies is quite attractive. And Robert Smith, who started out gaunt and has grown to bigger-than-teddy-bear, is still amazingly attractive, even in his middle age. And Meat Loaf has had his moments where I could understand why someone would be willing to make wild, passionate love to him.  

I'm terrible, I know.

But seriously. I'm just getting out of being a teen girl, which is the worst time and gender for judging appearance. Period. Exclamation mark. And I have been in lust (and maybe love) with a male of every body type. From thin to fat, from jock to wuss-boy.

Although I think when it comes to partners... Girls are less picky about how the boy they're taking along with them looks.

These're just some thoughts...

And Brad Pitt is hot, but only because he's one weird dude and that catches my attention. He's probably the only "Hollywood hunk" I'll take a second look at.


i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

[This message has been edited by Anvrill (08-19-2002 04:09 PM).]

Anvrill
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since 2002-06-21
Posts 710
in the interzone now
14 posted 2002-08-19 04:12 PM


Oh, and when I see Chris Farley, I think "Yuck, immature, pointless comedy." When I see Vin Diesel, I think "Ew! Kill it! Kill it!"

i'll be waiting for you
do exactly what you're told

jm

MidnightSon
Member
since 2002-05-15
Posts 312
between the gutter & the stars
15 posted 2002-08-22 05:00 AM


lori: that hurts. i'm male and straight and all, but i know Vin's a lady killer.... (it vexes me to no avail, but i must concur with pop culture on that one. he's pretty hip.)
lol

lisann: read the prophet by Kahil Gibran (or at least the lil blurb in it on Beauty. i think you'll find it.... reassuring.

"beauty is not a need, but an ecstacy. it is not a mouth thirsting nor an empty hand stretched forth,
but rather a heart enflamed and a soul enchanted."

or to coin the cliche', it's many things to many people, but beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

btw i'm a skinny guy, but i like size 5 and 6 gals. when it looks like i'd break em in half with a hug, it's a turn off.
but that's me.

and word to chris bout bringing up the guy thing. this is one arguement that isn't one sided. why do i have to be a short haired/bald muscle head that drives an economy-car-turned-race-machine just to get a girl?
or for that matter, a pale, skinny, plaid wearing emo kid that wears hornrims with no lenses...
*blegh on convention*

it's our struggle for identity that leaves us all unknown

Toad
Member
since 2002-06-16
Posts 161

16 posted 2002-08-22 11:02 AM



Who defines beauty?

First of all you need to define which beauty you’re talking about, the external physical type or the internal character traits.

If you were asking about physical external beauty then I’d say that it’s down to individual choice, in which case if your figure of 95% were accurate skinny and blonde would seem to be the ideal.

If however you were talking about internal character traits such as kindness I’d have to say that such beauty is defined by the character inherent in the person and only recognised by individual.
quote:
beauty is only skin deep" that is total b.s. Beauty is beneath the skin. True beauty is found within NOT without

True beauty is actually found in both places and neither is subservient to the other, they are just different examples of the same thing.

Thank you for the chance to read and reply.

Moon Dust
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17 posted 2002-08-22 01:57 PM


ok if a person isn't the typical blonde woman and shes pretty, not glamrous like on TV, if she had a good personailty then that would appify her beauty to more than a person on TV thats just a face to you.

No I think true beauty lies in confidence more that pysical apperance and also in personailty.

so in a way you can't say that you can only find beauty inside/outside because there are so many ways of being beauiful

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

brian madden
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since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
18 posted 2002-08-22 08:31 PM


The old saying “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” still holds true. Just as a side line comment a English tabloid that was lying around my house (IT was not mine, I don’t buy papers) featured a chart from some source or other that compares height and weight and decides whether you are over weight or not, the poll’s result meant that some one like Britney Spears was over weight. MY point is what if Hollywood or the media decides that what is slim is now fat…. Will we all be eating only lettuce leaves… Yes our society seems to thrust slim women with big breasts into the limelight, even Sophie Dahl (an English  model famous for being a size 14+)  has lost weight, we can all starve ourselves, trim certain parts bulk up other parts, dye our hair etc etc until we meet the criteria..what then. Chances are we are not going to feel any better. The main thing is to keep as healthy as you can,  and enjoy life. We are not all meant to be poster boy/girl bimbos and THANK GOD for that.

The sum of the angles of that rectangle is too monstrous to contemplate!

anya
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since 2002-07-27
Posts 393
London, UK
19 posted 2002-08-23 08:47 AM


You can't worry that alot of people are so obsessed with image and don't bother with looking to in beauty, there is nothing anyone can do about it, all you can worry about is that you yourself can look past the exterior and leave others to their own shallow lives, it is them that will lose out, because physical beauty fades and one day they will relaise that. Here in england one magazine tried to use more 'normal' sized models, in other words they weren't twigs, and their sales went down dramatically, this really deppressed me when I heard it, I coudn't believe our society is so shallow but in the end I just count myself lucky that looks don't matter to me that much and i pity people who need to be told how to dress and and how to look, but i don't think there is really anything we can do to change it, the media is way too powerful
Toad
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since 2002-06-16
Posts 161

20 posted 2002-08-23 10:21 AM



I do understand your point, you’re saying that they may possess physical beauty but they may not be nice people, but being nice people isn’t what models of this type are all about. They are reflections of what most people believe is physical beauty, if they weren’t the magazines would find their sales dropping dramatically, as in the above example.

The question of whether the magazines create false ideals and manipulate beliefs is debatable and probably has some foundation but first you have to define the ideals they are trying to manipulate, which I believe are traits of physical beauty.

Irie
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since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493
Washington State
21 posted 2002-09-06 05:39 PM


OK, I have thought about this too long now and what I wrote actually
made no sense!    
So, I have deleted my reply and will try again later.
For now I will have to say I agree with Chris ....

See, blondes aren't all they are made up to be,
I just overloaded my blonde head!

Oh, and not to be shallow....
But Chris .... Vin Diesel makes me melt!




[This message has been edited by Irie (09-06-2002 06:04 PM).]

Christopher
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22 posted 2002-09-06 07:54 PM


Sheri - i never said there was anything wrong with that, and personally, i don't think it's shallow... there's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone who obviously puts a lot of effort into being so... besides, i think he's hot too.  

[This message has been edited by Christopher (09-06-2002 08:28 PM).]

Opeth
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The Ravines
23 posted 2002-09-07 12:46 PM


I cannot believe this day has arrived...the day that I completely agree with what Chris had stated previously.
Trevor
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since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
24 posted 2002-09-09 10:32 PM


I do.

*

Maybe there is no beauty only varying degrees of ugly.

Thanks,

Troy's brother

Christopher
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25 posted 2002-09-10 02:18 AM


Great - now Chewbacca's going to be the next super-hot super-model.
Trevor
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since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
26 posted 2002-09-10 02:56 AM


Nah Chris,

Queen Elizabeth is the look I'll be watching for but "The Wookie" will be the motif for my summer wear collection with the statement being "more - is more and fur is sweaty."     Thanks,

Trev or

PS Actually what I meant by my post is I define beauty just as everyone has the power to....seems there is a lot of bitching about defining beauty by people who all have their own versions of what beauty is. "The nerve of them saying that these women are beautiful when beauty is, etc.....etc".

We all have our own version of beauty, no more valid than other opinions. The trick is not getting so caught up in trying to conform to what other people's beauties are. That's when the problems start to arise. Personally, for practical reasons (not poetic),   I don't give a rat's ass who other people think are beautiful. Why should I? I'll date who I like based upon what attributes I think are desirable whether they be based upon their personality or physical appearance. I have dated all sorts of different looking women with all sorts of different physical and personality attributes that I found to be beautiful regardless of what someone else thought. I decide what I think is beautiful.


I do however, agree with some of what has been said and think that a lot of young vulnerable people are conned into thinking that they must fit into a certain image, (heck a lot of older people too but unless mentally handicapped or suffering from an illness then they should take some responsibility for their own actions)...I guess its up to the parents to combat this form of mind washing. I mean where do these kids get the money to maintain the latest fashion trends? I know the Jones's ain't lending out any money because they've got to stay ahead of the game.

Okay Chris, now you got me started on another long winded response...damn you chewy...laugh it up fuzzball.

Lisann:

"the skinny, blonde made up women are beautiful.  I absolutely hate hearing her and the rest of my co-workers say "wow...she's gorgeous..did you see the bod on her?" Even Jane says that.......just because of her outer appearance it must mean she is beautiful....when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without.   Beauty is found in the purity of heart."

I take it you don't like sculptures or paintings unless you've met the artist first? Beauty can be found anywhere and unfortunately it isn't found solely in the nature of someone. You can't honestly tell me you've never been for at least an instant attracted to someone because of their physical appearance...and if this is so then you are too "guilty" of judging someone upon their appearance. But I don't think this is a bad thing unless of course you are a loan officer and decide who to give a mortgage to based upon their apprearance. I think physical attraction should be based upon physical appearance just as sexual attraction should be based upon sexual compatability and so forth and so on. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with finding someone physically attractive or having thoughts about what is physically appealing to oneself...however I think its wrong to base a long term relationship solely upon it unless of course you just want to be with a nice looking painting for a wife. You hate people having preconcieved notions of what beauty is yet it seems you are trying to define beauty for them by saying beauty is everything but....

"IT is the the media who controls our minds....because we let them"

Isn't this a form of media...so why should I allow you to control my mind. j/k Well I think that the media is pretty irresponsible when it comes to the unhealthy images it targets at young people...Camel Joe isn't a cartoon image for nothing. But I think a lot of people should blame themselves as they complain about media beauty as they rush to the video store to get their copy of hunky Brad Pitt's new snoozer called "The Mexican"...now if any woman tells me they enjoyed that movie because it was a well acted or the story was well written then I don't know what I will do. Lisann, have you ever watched a movie because you found the actor to be handsome? I know I'll sit through pretty much any drivel that Catherine Zeta Jones makes....but in her defense her acting and movie choices are a lot better these days.

"they are the ones that is TELLING us what is beautiful...We know NOTHING about these people"

They're not telling us anything that someone's not listening to.

"We know NOTHING about these people....these models that they portray in the mags and on tv commercials.....movies......everything....it is all hype."

Then how do we know they too are not beautiful people inside and out? Imagine being a supermodel and only being judged upon your appearance. Kinda the same thing. I don't think anyone truly wants to be judged solely upon their appearance, except maybe statues.

"She has the most beautiful gentle loving heart....she has the soul of an angel...she really does.  But because of all the media crap....the mental images that they portray to everyone else......she has a negative self image."

Sounds like your friend has a negative self image not because of what the media said but because of what she believes to be true about the media or bases her own opinions too deeply upon other's. Should blame be solely shoved upon the media for everyone's actions....as David Cross once remarked about violence in the media causing widespread violence "What was the name of the video game Hitler played?"....I think the media does pray on the vulnerable in terms of advertising but there has to be more to blame then just commercials and movies...I mean, didn't Micheangelo paint and sculpt his idea of beauty long before Playboy came out? Was he wrong to paint such and are we foolish for thinking his work is beautiful? Also I personally don't know the favorite colour of any trees but I think they are beautiful even before I knew they cleaned the air I breath. Media is too easy a scapegoat...how about we blame ourselves instead.

"I have a friend.......she is so beautiful.......in my opinion both within and without"

But now you are judging her physical appearance too. You can't say the above then state, "when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without." well you can say it, but it does contradict some of your other ideas.

"And as long as we continue to have this distorted image of what beauty is supposed to be we are going to miss out on a whole lot of beautiful.....incredible experiences in life."

Yes but don't forget that supermodels should be allowed into your beautopian world as well. Just because many people find them physically appealing doesn't mean they are ugly.  

Sunshine:

"it is the people who stand tall because of their backbone and large giving hearts that do the most in this world..."

...maybe so but a bit of smarts and a flashy smile can't hurt either.

Dark Enchantress:

"That's why I swear that if I ever became a famous musician I'd have "ugly" people in all of my videos.. as nude as possible."

Yes, and when you lecture about racism remember to have your black entourage with you instead of the white one. Why wait for the video, why not befriend nude ugly people today?j/k But you can't say you don't have an opinion of what physical beauty is either and just blame the media too...do you ever wear make up or fix your hair in certain styles?...what about your clothes? You ever buy a brand name of anything? Do you wake up in the morning and say I'm going to make myself us unappealing to everyone as I possibly can or is there ever a day where you say, "damn I look good."? You ever dress or look a certain way to get the attention of a lover? Do you ever wish that you were, if only for a moment, judged on your looks because you spent all that extra time looking special? Would you like it if a lover said to you, "Hon, you look great! You look beautiful"? Just some questions I thought I'd throw into the air.

Alexia:

"99.9% of the guys I meet, blow you off b/c your not paper thin, and I don't have blonde hair."

I find it hard to believe that any woman is rejected by 99.9% of the men they meet unless of course that "woman" goes to the bathroom standing up....even then I doubt it. But I suppose if you are speaking of ten different guys the 99.9% is the nine best looking guys you are after and the 0.1% represents the ugly guy you just want to be friends with because he is "nice" inside and will listen while you complain about the guys who reject you. Sorry if that sounded sarcastic, not meant to be an attack or anything, just trying to show an example of human nature...so I apologize if it seemed harsh...in fact I should probably state that to everyone here....

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, honestly, I'm just trying to present an alternative viewpoint that seems to be largely overlooked in this discussion.

Savage Quiescence:

"What breaks my heart is that most of the younger girls who are being fed all of this do not realize that most of the images they see in magazines are air-brushed. And oh, the miracles of stage makeup."

Yeah, I agree, its the children who are caught up in it all before they are able to form "their own" opinions. I mean technically its always their own opinions but I mean before they can critically think through things.

But what I don't understand is your next comments:


"And personally, I think that she is so much more beautiful than all these little twits you see prancing around that think they are just "it"."

followed up with:

"And everyone, please avoid stereotypes."

Toerag:

Terrific poem. Wonderfully stated wisdom.

bsquirrel:

"Oh, and to answer your question of who defines beauty ... we all do, in our choices and our attitudes"

Why am I responding to everyone's post even the ones I agree with? I have much too much time on my hands....and writing is fun.

Anvril:

I think you are saying that you think there are many different types of beautiful people....makes sense to me.

Chris:

"how the hell do women get to grab all the misery and self-loathing? we men have been competing against muscle men and the hefty, hunky types for as many years as women have against anorexia. tell me then why you get to have esteem problems for not meeting up to the supposed societal ideal, when we men don't generally sweat it?"

Amen brother, preachy da word, speak the truth....yeah and why do we have to put the seat down and you don't have to put it up...and why can't I wear the same t-shirt five days in a row...and why do I have to get a hair cut and pluck my eyebrows too!...not too mention why is it the jerk with the motorbike and poor attitude who gets all the girls instead of the sensitive calculus expert who drives a K-car?

Okay, a little off topic but I thought it would be a good time to say it after you softened them up.

Here's an extreme example, and I'll probably be hung for this one....I'm sure a lot of severly burned victims are beautiful people inside and as a whole but I bet very, very, very few of you who commented on how beauty shouldn't be based upon physical appearance would ever have a relationship that went beyond friendship with someone with major physical deformities unless of course you too were afflicted.

Anvril:

"Oh, and every girl I know has the hots for Silent Bob."

Yeah, its easy to be attracted to wealth and fame. Maybe that's what a woman means when she says that "looks ain't everything". j/k But really, are you attracted to a non-speaking, trench coat wearing, overweight, mid thrity year old man who hangs out at a convenience store selling drugs to school kids whilst befriending a foul mouthed sexually confused drug addict? Or a wealthy movie writer/director/actor/producer? Say Silent Bob wasn't a character and Kevin Smith actually was that lunch-box...would you still love him tomorrow?

"Although I think when it comes to partners... Girls are less picky about how the boy they're taking along with them looks."

Well I must say either that is a crock or I've misjudged women as I've watched the less physically attractive guys get repeatedly ignored by the opposite sex throughout my lifetime. Oh yeah, and that really sweet, funny, nice guy who was born with disfigured arms and only one hand that had only two fingers on it....who did he go to the prom with? I guess Arnold Schwartzaneger got more dates than Arnold from Happy Days because he's a much nicer guy. I think both men and women take into account the appearance of a mate....but appearance tends to get pushed back on the list of priorities for both as they get older and wiser...but you still get the odd old billionaire marrying a Playmate and Elizabeth Taylor marrying her 30 yr old carpenter.

I think I'm out of mustard now....thanks all for keeping me thinking. I know I've probably come across as a bit of an ass to some, so I apologize if I stepped to hard on anyone's toes. I try to keep my yapper shut but its so damn hard when such an interesting topic comes to life. Also I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe my comments are the "truth" and the be all to end all but rather just another opinion that is very open to discussion....ah vell, curse me if ya want...I'm still a beautiful man....I think I used up all my imagery allowed but a smile was supposed to go after that comment....and a few others up there...

Anyways, thanks everyone for the interesting topic,

Trev or

"

[This message has been edited by Trevor (09-10-2002 06:43 AM).]

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
27 posted 2002-09-10 09:43 AM


*s
after reading  Trevor...I can't recall
what the original statement was but I think
everything has been covered by him...

M

Irie
Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493
Washington State
28 posted 2002-09-13 02:54 PM


Hey Chris, I wasn't being a smarty pants!
Ok, well I guess I was, but not in that way! Hehe

After pondering about this for a while,
I still have to agree with Chris.
In addition .....
I know there are some people in this world that can't or won't see
beyond physical beauty, but that is there prerogative.
There are also people in this world that do see beyond physical beauty
and I think that's great!
That's just the way the chips fall I guess.

~Sheri

"Don't wait for your ship to come in ...
Swim out to it"

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