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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration

25 posted 09-10-2002 02:18 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Great - now Chewbacca's going to be the next super-hot super-model.
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since 08-12-99
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26 posted 09-10-2002 02:56 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Nah Chris,

Queen Elizabeth is the look I'll be watching for but "The Wookie" will be the motif for my summer wear collection with the statement being "more - is more and fur is sweaty."     Thanks,

Trev or

PS Actually what I meant by my post is I define beauty just as everyone has the power to....seems there is a lot of bitching about defining beauty by people who all have their own versions of what beauty is. "The nerve of them saying that these women are beautiful when beauty is, etc.....etc".

We all have our own version of beauty, no more valid than other opinions. The trick is not getting so caught up in trying to conform to what other people's beauties are. That's when the problems start to arise. Personally, for practical reasons (not poetic),   I don't give a rat's ass who other people think are beautiful. Why should I? I'll date who I like based upon what attributes I think are desirable whether they be based upon their personality or physical appearance. I have dated all sorts of different looking women with all sorts of different physical and personality attributes that I found to be beautiful regardless of what someone else thought. I decide what I think is beautiful.

I do however, agree with some of what has been said and think that a lot of young vulnerable people are conned into thinking that they must fit into a certain image, (heck a lot of older people too but unless mentally handicapped or suffering from an illness then they should take some responsibility for their own actions)...I guess its up to the parents to combat this form of mind washing. I mean where do these kids get the money to maintain the latest fashion trends? I know the Jones's ain't lending out any money because they've got to stay ahead of the game.

Okay Chris, now you got me started on another long winded response...damn you chewy...laugh it up fuzzball.


"the skinny, blonde made up women are beautiful.  I absolutely hate hearing her and the rest of my co-workers say "wow...she's gorgeous..did you see the bod on her?" Even Jane says that.......just because of her outer appearance it must mean she is beautiful....when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without.   Beauty is found in the purity of heart."

I take it you don't like sculptures or paintings unless you've met the artist first? Beauty can be found anywhere and unfortunately it isn't found solely in the nature of someone. You can't honestly tell me you've never been for at least an instant attracted to someone because of their physical appearance...and if this is so then you are too "guilty" of judging someone upon their appearance. But I don't think this is a bad thing unless of course you are a loan officer and decide who to give a mortgage to based upon their apprearance. I think physical attraction should be based upon physical appearance just as sexual attraction should be based upon sexual compatability and so forth and so on. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with finding someone physically attractive or having thoughts about what is physically appealing to oneself...however I think its wrong to base a long term relationship solely upon it unless of course you just want to be with a nice looking painting for a wife. You hate people having preconcieved notions of what beauty is yet it seems you are trying to define beauty for them by saying beauty is everything but....

"IT is the the media who controls our minds....because we let them"

Isn't this a form of why should I allow you to control my mind. j/k Well I think that the media is pretty irresponsible when it comes to the unhealthy images it targets at young people...Camel Joe isn't a cartoon image for nothing. But I think a lot of people should blame themselves as they complain about media beauty as they rush to the video store to get their copy of hunky Brad Pitt's new snoozer called "The Mexican" if any woman tells me they enjoyed that movie because it was a well acted or the story was well written then I don't know what I will do. Lisann, have you ever watched a movie because you found the actor to be handsome? I know I'll sit through pretty much any drivel that Catherine Zeta Jones makes....but in her defense her acting and movie choices are a lot better these days.

"they are the ones that is TELLING us what is beautiful...We know NOTHING about these people"

They're not telling us anything that someone's not listening to.

"We know NOTHING about these people....these models that they portray in the mags and on tv is all hype."

Then how do we know they too are not beautiful people inside and out? Imagine being a supermodel and only being judged upon your appearance. Kinda the same thing. I don't think anyone truly wants to be judged solely upon their appearance, except maybe statues.

"She has the most beautiful gentle loving heart....she has the soul of an angel...she really does.  But because of all the media crap....the mental images that they portray to everyone else......she has a negative self image."

Sounds like your friend has a negative self image not because of what the media said but because of what she believes to be true about the media or bases her own opinions too deeply upon other's. Should blame be solely shoved upon the media for everyone's David Cross once remarked about violence in the media causing widespread violence "What was the name of the video game Hitler played?"....I think the media does pray on the vulnerable in terms of advertising but there has to be more to blame then just commercials and movies...I mean, didn't Micheangelo paint and sculpt his idea of beauty long before Playboy came out? Was he wrong to paint such and are we foolish for thinking his work is beautiful? Also I personally don't know the favorite colour of any trees but I think they are beautiful even before I knew they cleaned the air I breath. Media is too easy a about we blame ourselves instead.

"I have a friend.......she is so my opinion both within and without"

But now you are judging her physical appearance too. You can't say the above then state, "when are we as humans going to wake up and discover that Beauty is within not without." well you can say it, but it does contradict some of your other ideas.

"And as long as we continue to have this distorted image of what beauty is supposed to be we are going to miss out on a whole lot of beautiful.....incredible experiences in life."

Yes but don't forget that supermodels should be allowed into your beautopian world as well. Just because many people find them physically appealing doesn't mean they are ugly.  


"it is the people who stand tall because of their backbone and large giving hearts that do the most in this world..."

...maybe so but a bit of smarts and a flashy smile can't hurt either.

Dark Enchantress:

"That's why I swear that if I ever became a famous musician I'd have "ugly" people in all of my videos.. as nude as possible."

Yes, and when you lecture about racism remember to have your black entourage with you instead of the white one. Why wait for the video, why not befriend nude ugly people today?j/k But you can't say you don't have an opinion of what physical beauty is either and just blame the media you ever wear make up or fix your hair in certain styles?...what about your clothes? You ever buy a brand name of anything? Do you wake up in the morning and say I'm going to make myself us unappealing to everyone as I possibly can or is there ever a day where you say, "damn I look good."? You ever dress or look a certain way to get the attention of a lover? Do you ever wish that you were, if only for a moment, judged on your looks because you spent all that extra time looking special? Would you like it if a lover said to you, "Hon, you look great! You look beautiful"? Just some questions I thought I'd throw into the air.


"99.9% of the guys I meet, blow you off b/c your not paper thin, and I don't have blonde hair."

I find it hard to believe that any woman is rejected by 99.9% of the men they meet unless of course that "woman" goes to the bathroom standing up....even then I doubt it. But I suppose if you are speaking of ten different guys the 99.9% is the nine best looking guys you are after and the 0.1% represents the ugly guy you just want to be friends with because he is "nice" inside and will listen while you complain about the guys who reject you. Sorry if that sounded sarcastic, not meant to be an attack or anything, just trying to show an example of human I apologize if it seemed fact I should probably state that to everyone here....

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, honestly, I'm just trying to present an alternative viewpoint that seems to be largely overlooked in this discussion.

Savage Quiescence:

"What breaks my heart is that most of the younger girls who are being fed all of this do not realize that most of the images they see in magazines are air-brushed. And oh, the miracles of stage makeup."

Yeah, I agree, its the children who are caught up in it all before they are able to form "their own" opinions. I mean technically its always their own opinions but I mean before they can critically think through things.

But what I don't understand is your next comments:

"And personally, I think that she is so much more beautiful than all these little twits you see prancing around that think they are just "it"."

followed up with:

"And everyone, please avoid stereotypes."


Terrific poem. Wonderfully stated wisdom.


"Oh, and to answer your question of who defines beauty ... we all do, in our choices and our attitudes"

Why am I responding to everyone's post even the ones I agree with? I have much too much time on my hands....and writing is fun.


I think you are saying that you think there are many different types of beautiful people....makes sense to me.


"how the hell do women get to grab all the misery and self-loathing? we men have been competing against muscle men and the hefty, hunky types for as many years as women have against anorexia. tell me then why you get to have esteem problems for not meeting up to the supposed societal ideal, when we men don't generally sweat it?"

Amen brother, preachy da word, speak the truth....yeah and why do we have to put the seat down and you don't have to put it up...and why can't I wear the same t-shirt five days in a row...and why do I have to get a hair cut and pluck my eyebrows too!...not too mention why is it the jerk with the motorbike and poor attitude who gets all the girls instead of the sensitive calculus expert who drives a K-car?

Okay, a little off topic but I thought it would be a good time to say it after you softened them up.

Here's an extreme example, and I'll probably be hung for this one....I'm sure a lot of severly burned victims are beautiful people inside and as a whole but I bet very, very, very few of you who commented on how beauty shouldn't be based upon physical appearance would ever have a relationship that went beyond friendship with someone with major physical deformities unless of course you too were afflicted.


"Oh, and every girl I know has the hots for Silent Bob."

Yeah, its easy to be attracted to wealth and fame. Maybe that's what a woman means when she says that "looks ain't everything". j/k But really, are you attracted to a non-speaking, trench coat wearing, overweight, mid thrity year old man who hangs out at a convenience store selling drugs to school kids whilst befriending a foul mouthed sexually confused drug addict? Or a wealthy movie writer/director/actor/producer? Say Silent Bob wasn't a character and Kevin Smith actually was that lunch-box...would you still love him tomorrow?

"Although I think when it comes to partners... Girls are less picky about how the boy they're taking along with them looks."

Well I must say either that is a crock or I've misjudged women as I've watched the less physically attractive guys get repeatedly ignored by the opposite sex throughout my lifetime. Oh yeah, and that really sweet, funny, nice guy who was born with disfigured arms and only one hand that had only two fingers on it....who did he go to the prom with? I guess Arnold Schwartzaneger got more dates than Arnold from Happy Days because he's a much nicer guy. I think both men and women take into account the appearance of a mate....but appearance tends to get pushed back on the list of priorities for both as they get older and wiser...but you still get the odd old billionaire marrying a Playmate and Elizabeth Taylor marrying her 30 yr old carpenter.

I think I'm out of mustard now....thanks all for keeping me thinking. I know I've probably come across as a bit of an ass to some, so I apologize if I stepped to hard on anyone's toes. I try to keep my yapper shut but its so damn hard when such an interesting topic comes to life. Also I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe my comments are the "truth" and the be all to end all but rather just another opinion that is very open to discussion....ah vell, curse me if ya want...I'm still a beautiful man....I think I used up all my imagery allowed but a smile was supposed to go after that comment....and a few others up there...

Anyways, thanks everyone for the interesting topic,

Trev or


[This message has been edited by Trevor (09-10-2002 06:43 AM).]

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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines

27 posted 09-10-2002 09:43 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

after reading  Trevor...I can't recall
what the original statement was but I think
everything has been covered by him...

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since 12-01-1999
Posts 1526
Washington State

28 posted 09-13-2002 02:54 PM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

Hey Chris, I wasn't being a smarty pants!
Ok, well I guess I was, but not in that way! Hehe

After pondering about this for a while,
I still have to agree with Chris.
In addition .....
I know there are some people in this world that can't or won't see
beyond physical beauty, but that is there prerogative.
There are also people in this world that do see beyond physical beauty
and I think that's great!
That's just the way the chips fall I guess.


"Don't wait for your ship to come in ...
Swim out to it"

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