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Passions in Poetry

Love?

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bsquirrel
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0 posted 08-06-2002 06:10 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Do you ever find it hard to love?

I've heard told many times that in order to love others, you must love yourself. So do you sometimes find it hard to love yourself?

And if so, how do you get over the hump to love again?

I raise this question because at points, when I'm tired and burned out, I feel like I would I like to disappear, rather than sort out the colored beach stones back into a recognizable shape that is me (yes, I'm made of colored beach stones ... c'mon, this is a poetry forum ).

And what is love?

I kindly await your replies.

"I fall into your arms."

Kellie_Cantrell
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Washington State


1 posted 08-06-2002 07:08 PM       View Profile for Kellie_Cantrell   Email Kellie_Cantrell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kellie_Cantrell

LOVE IS HAPPINESS
Alexia
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2 posted 08-06-2002 07:50 PM       View Profile for Alexia   Email Alexia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alexia

love is what sucks (to me in my life right now anyways )

*Love might not make the world go round but it's what makes the ride worth while*

rascalx
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since 08-25-99
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3 posted 08-06-2002 10:01 PM       View Profile for rascalx   Email rascalx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit rascalx's Home Page   View IP for rascalx

I'm not sure I have an answer to your question about love as I'm having quite a hard time with it myself right now but I absolutely love your colored stones analogy. I can so relate to that feeling and that image.  
    Hmmm... a thought on love...love is when someone becomes so important to you that they in some way affect and shape every facet of your life (this can be both bad and good... think about it...)
                   - Jeff
Janet Marie
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4 posted 08-06-2002 10:02 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

"So do you sometimes find it hard to love yourself?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Loving someone else is so much easier...
( you expected that answer from a moth, right? )



"And if so, how do you get over the hump to love again?"
~~~~~~

"We wish ourselves beautiful
We cry in the night
And it's not the love you feared  
But the fall from the height

My personal ledges
Afraid to look down
My crepe paper bridges
Enough water to drown"

~Edwin McCain~


"And what is love?"


Heaven & Hell ... and everything in between.

I've heard if ya are doing it right(love)that its contentment and commitment ...
I'll let ya know if I ever prove that to be true...


Mikey...your beach stones reflect all the colors of the ocean ... yer a prism poet ya know

If all the tear drops went to heaven
And if all the pain was confined ...
Would I be your salvation
could I make your spirit shine.

KWSB

Tracey
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where insanity meets breeding


5 posted 08-06-2002 10:51 PM       View Profile for Tracey   Email Tracey   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tracey

Yep, I absolutely believe that to really love someone, you have to love yourself. I’ve seen those who don’t…and their relationships tend to be based on other things than love…ie: a need, a dependancy, an infatuation among other things.
What is love? Good question…not so sure I’d be a good candidate to answer that one. But, I guess, among other things, it’s having a deep enough love for another, that you can see their faults, accept them, and love them anyway. Trust is a big thing too in love. You trust another, enough that you let them hold your heart, safe in the knowledge that they will care for it as much, or more than you would yourself. I know there are other things I could say, but it’s nearly bedtime, and my mind doesn’t work so good when it’s nearly dream time. I’m off to play with my own coloured beach stones in my dreams (yep, I like that way of thinking)

You can never win or lose
If you don't
Run the race

Psychedelic Furs - Love My Way

Janet Marie
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6 posted 08-06-2002 10:58 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

quote:
But, I guess, among other things, it's having a deep enough love for another, that you can see their faults, accept them, and love them anyway. Trust is a big thing too in love. You trust another, enough that you let them hold your heart, safe in the knowledge that they will care for it as much, or more than you would yourself.

Duncan....dont you let this one get away...
LISTEN TO THE MOTH!!


(damn Trace...why ya gotta make me mothy mascara run) *S*

If all the tear drops went to heaven
And if all the pain was confined ...
Would I be your salvation
could I make your spirit shine.

KWSB

Duncan
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since 08-07-2001
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7 posted 08-07-2002 12:05 AM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

But Jams, she couldn't be talking about me 'cause I don't have any faults!!!!

Let me think on this one a bit and I'll be back.

I
I was standing
You were there
Two worlds collided...

INXS

Duncan
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since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


8 posted 08-07-2002 02:48 AM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

‘Do you ever find it hard to love?

I've heard told many times that in order to love others, you must love yourself. So do you sometimes find it hard to love yourself?’


I’ve always fallen in love quite easily, then found it not so easy to ‘stay in love’.  And for the most part I think this has been because I didn’t like (let alone love) the person I was, in those relationships.  The real me (the one I liked and felt good about being) was there in the beginning but seemed to fade/disappear in time.
I’ve always thought that love was kind of like tennis.  It doesn’t really matter how good a player you are, if the person across the net can’t hit the ball back to you…it isn’t gonna be a good game, for anyone.   (I’m sure that makes no sense to anyone but me…lol)
Anyway, I met this girl awhile back who not only is able to keep the ball going with me but who truly recognized, appreciated and nurtured the best in me.  And I have found this love to be very different than any I’ve known before.  So, all that to say this…I think love, real love, helps me to love myself, because it reflects the best in me.


‘Trust is a big thing too in love. You trust another, enough that you let them hold your heart, safe in the knowledge that they will care for it as much, or more than you would yourself.’


I completely agree with this but I also gotta admit that trusting another to this extent does not come easily to me.  If someone takes my heart lightly once, they’ll probably do it again.  And THAT scares the hell out of me.


And I will add these thoughts…

Love is…being honest, even when you know that it will change everything
                rewriting every script you’ve ever written for your life
                staying up to say goodnight at midnight, when you’ve gotta be up at 6:30 AM
                turning on the AC, just so you can sleep with the blanket ya named after her
                writing crappy poetry and not really caring as long as she responds
                having a kitten together
                looking at her picture and wondering how the hell ya got so lucky
                calling me just ‘cause her MG’s in the car hospital…lol
                watching the flicker of the lantern she sent, at 2:AM and feeling completely at ease
                seeing her in 59 hours, 3,540 minutes, 212,400 seconds
                wondering, when I’m gonna get nervous

Hey Rodent Guy…Thanks for the good question(s).
Trace…Thanks for the love.

Forgetting all I'm lacking
Completely and complete
I'll take your invitation
You take all of me

Lifehouse

Sudhir Iyer
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since 04-26-2000
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Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


9 posted 08-07-2002 05:58 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

I can't say I have the right answers, but these are my opinions... you can take it as you like... thanks for the chance...

Do you ever find it hard to love?
---> Not really, but then it begins with liking, enjoying (company/talks/jokes etc) and then loving (mostly in that order)

So do you sometimes find it hard to love yourself?
---> That is more difficult to do, as I believe it is easier to love others than oneself.

And if so, how do you get over the hump to love again?
---> This is often self-discovered, sometimes all it takes is a beautiful sunset, and a light breeze. Nature does help a lot, I believe.

And what is love?
---> it is probably that undefinable object that we all seek, for reasons greater than unknown...

now, you have the right to call me pathetic

Regards,
sudhir

nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


10 posted 08-07-2002 06:35 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

wow..Tracey and Duncan..you have  said it all...I love your definitions and am printing them out...You could probably turn  those rsponses into a small booklet called "What Is Love" and I am sure it would sell...I can see many poems inspired by those words.
M
bsquirrel
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11 posted 08-07-2002 12:33 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

I'm going to respond to each of you individually, and thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions.

My reasoning behind this was two-fold:

I wanted to explore, since love is pretty much the binding threads of the human race. It's amazing how many surges you can feel for someone, seemingly energy from outside yourself. And when it goes bad, it's amazing how even the darkest days seem to negate color completely, and just become a void. It can be high drama and subtle at the same time. It can rule your life, or you can try to rule it, and who knows how long it will last, or what to do when it's no longer there? I guess I think too much.  

This line of questioning in no way relates to my relationship with Lori, just my relationship with myself.

Now, to reply!

"I fall into your arms."

[This message has been edited by bsquirrel (08-07-2002 12:39 PM).]

bsquirrel
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12 posted 08-07-2002 12:35 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Kellie_Cantrell, it can be. But I think if love and happiness were the same thing, there would be no need for two different words describing it.

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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13 posted 08-07-2002 12:38 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Alexia,

I've seen your other threads here , so I am aware of some of your troubles. Don't worry though -- when you're still in the beginning stages of figuring yourself out, it's really hard to also figure out love. I've talked about this at length in a different thread -- to talk about the past in order to try and understand the present. I'm still workin' on it.

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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14 posted 08-07-2002 12:44 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Rascalx,

I'm glad you liked my colored stones analogy. It just hit me while I was asking my question (and I ended up following it up with a poem in Open called Colored beach stones). But enough plugs.

I like what you say about love affecting and shaping every face of your life, and your acknowledgement that it can be both good and bad. I think, when someone holds that much sway (aka power) over you, you realize how vulnerable you are. And if you hold the same over them, they must be vulnerable too. So I think love is a very adult emotion in that you have to accept vulnerabilities within others and yourself, in order to begin to understand the feelings you have.

And to admit your vulnerable ... that can be hard.

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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15 posted 08-07-2002 12:50 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Butterfly Slippers ,

Thank you for your sweet words about my poetry. And yes, I agree that's is so much easier to love someone else. But the thing with that is, when things go wrong, when there's an argument or a fight or an unbearable silence, it's hard to do anything but collapse, because that person you love is remote, and you are forced to draw on the strength of yourself, and find nothing there but numb realization that everything is falling apart.

That's always been my problem. It's quite easy to love someone -- and not think of yourself at all -- when things are going great. But when a sour night dawns on you both, and she's sobbing, and you're grappling with what to say, and she's pushing you away ... I pretty much collapse, because I still haven't found that place in me that can accept something like this happening. And the other problem with little self-love is always blaming yourself when things do go wrong. At least, that's my problem.

quote:

Heaven & Hell ... and everything in between.

I've heard if ya are doing it right(love)that its contentment and commitment ...
I'll let ya know if I ever prove that to be true...



I love your honesty, Janet Marie. *hug*

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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16 posted 08-07-2002 12:57 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Hi, Tracey.

I completely agree with you about needing to differentiate need, dependency and infatuation from love. There's a line from a Gary Numan song called Metal that goes "I'm confusing love with need."

But it's also a strange, wavering line. Because if you love someone, you do need them. It shouldn't be to the detriment of your own involvement and joy in life, but that need is there. And dependency, when things go wrong. I think the best sort of love is two independent people who love themselves so honestly and casually, it's like water running over stones -- small, quiet and beautiful. And I think when things go wrong, a wonderful thing about love is being able to join together into a bond stronger than anything you could ever manage apart.

quote:

What is love? ... I guess, among other things, it’s having a deep enough love for another, that you can see their faults, accept them, and love them anyway.



What wise words from you, Tracey. Thank you for sharing them here.

quote:

Trust is a big thing too in love. You trust another, enough that you let them hold your heart, safe in the knowledge that they will care for it as much, or more than you would yourself.



Yes, I think trust is a huge part of love. If there's no trust, there's no love ... just a sort of whirling passion that's going to align itself to that crack of no-trust and slowly disintegrate into pieces.

Enjoy the beach stones.

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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17 posted 08-07-2002 01:11 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Hey, Duncan. Still workin' on that belltower idea.

You brought up something I hadn't thought about -- that for some, love can be such a compromise, that you erase your personality in order to be with them. I've seen that happen many times with friends, and it's a hard thing for them to break out of (they can get very depressed when things go wrong, because now they have to rebuild themselves, not just the hole left by a sour relationship)

I was like that a bit with my first relationship. I ended up throwing out CDs I liked, went to church with her a few times, stuff like that. But in the end, our differences were too great, and I valued myself a little bit too much to let him sink into the ether.

quote:

I’ve always thought that love was kind of like tennis.  It doesn’t really matter how good a player you are, if the person across the net can’t hit the ball back to you…it isn’t gonna be a good game, for anyone.



I like that analogy. Though it brings up the sticky question of why, in tennis, "Love" is the same as a score of zero.

quote:

Anyway, I met this girl awhile back who not only is able to keep the ball going with me but who truly recognized, appreciated and nurtured the best in me.  And I have found this love to be very different than any I’ve known before.  So, all that to say this…I think love, real love, helps me to love myself, because it reflects the best in me.



That's wonderful. I think by the wonder and awe and "How did it happen to me?" quality of what you wrote, it's obvious you've found love. I'm glad for you. (it's how I feel with Lori, too)

And yes, trust is a tough issue. It *is* scary. It goes back to being vulnerable, and it's a feeling no one likes. But, again, without that trust, I think it's only a matter of time before things go sour. I think love should be about sharing everything -- your happinesses and your sadnesses alike -- and when you come up against that wall, that shield, it's very frustrating. Good luck to you!

And I love your little list at the end. Love really is about the small moments (which turn out larger than the largest crisises you'll face)

Thanks for such an in-depth response!

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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18 posted 08-07-2002 01:19 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Hi, Sudhir.

Don't worry -- I don't think anyone has the right answers. I think love is too complicated be a simple question and answer, anyway.

I'm glad you're able to love easily. I have the opposite problem. It's really hard for me to open up to people. I live a very closed-off sort of inner life. When I'm around people I like, I can be very warm and friendly and outgoing. But put me in a new situation, and it takes me a while to get my bearings -- to find the courage to even say "Hi."

And I agree with you, that, when you do find love, it's easier to love her or him (or others) than yourself. It's tough to realize that in order to love her or him fully, you also have to have a passable interest in your own assets and deficiencies. And be comfortable with them. Ouch.

And I completely agree with you on the healing affects of nature. That's my poetry bursts with rivers, snow, rain, trees, sun, moon, beaches, oceans, stones, sky and forests.

quote:

it is probably that undefinable object that we all seek, for reasons greater than unknown...



I like that line of thought. It's sort of, love transcends the body. And why do we seek that transcendence? For reasons greater than unknown. Hmm ... I'm gonna be thinking about this one a lot. Thank you.

Mike

"I fall into your arms."

bsquirrel
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19 posted 08-07-2002 01:20 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Maureen,

I'd be honored and pleased if any of these discussions sparked poetry. I love to inspire when I can. And yes, Tracey and Duncan rock.

Mike

"I fall into your arms."

Anvrill
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since 06-21-2002
Posts 718
in the interzone now


20 posted 08-07-2002 07:33 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

Love is chaotic.

To me, love is where like meets need. You really, really, really, really like a person? Fine, whatever. If you don't need them, it's never going to be anything but like.

Of course, I've spent the past few years growing on songs filled with obsessive devotions.

Love isn't always healthy or good. It can be a torturous little bugger. I used to fall in love--truly, inasmuch as a girl my age could--once a year. And my love was like a curse, it seemed. Ending in suicide, controlling relationships, major amounts of verbal abuse, neglect, and (for quite a while) unspoken rejection.

The problem with the first four (the fifth worked out! And is working still) was that I needed them more than I needed myself. Of course, it took all that pain to begin to acknowledge myself at all.

Now, I may not love myself, but I do have a healthy respect for myself, and that makes the whole loving others thing a lot easier.

'Course, I'm talking about romantic love here... I've never known or understood family love, and I see love of a friend as a severe bond of understanding minds.

Anyway, that's my bit.

Is this what you wanted me to be?

Moist

bsquirrel
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21 posted 08-08-2002 01:45 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

I love you so much, Lori...

And I miss you.



Mike
Anvrill
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Posts 718
in the interzone now


22 posted 08-08-2002 09:20 PM       View Profile for Anvrill   Email Anvrill   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Anvrill's Home Page   View IP for Anvrill

I love you too, baby.

Romantic-love and friend-love. Best combination ever. And it'll last forever. So there.

Is this what you wanted me to be?

Moist

bsquirrel
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23 posted 08-09-2002 11:54 AM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

*long kiss* God, I love you so much babygrrl. Immer und fur ewigkeit. I love you.

Moon Dust
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24 posted 08-11-2002 08:48 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

ok heres what i've learned in the past few years
I find it hard to love a person weather it be friend love or romantic, because I have got to make sure I can trust them and if they can understand me.

I love myself pretty easily now because I learned that it doesnt matter what anybody else thinks about me when they dont know me.

And love is loving someone who you dont care what they've done, who they are, who you can understand and they understand you, who you can trust and not caring what any one else thinks.  wether it be love for friends, family, pets or romantic love.

If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come?

 
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