How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Feelings
 Suicide: Why we must talk
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Alwye   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Suicide: Why we must talk

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
CherryBlossom
Junior Member
since 10-13-2001
Posts 16
Communicate!


0 posted 11-08-2001 07:57 AM       View Profile for CherryBlossom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for CherryBlossom

I chat in different message boards, but there is one where I spend most of my time. In this specific forum something tragic happened. One of the members commited suicide. And not only did this sudden and sad news affect us all members, but it has deeply shaken one of the members, who had a online relationship with her. This boy is now contemplating suicide. He has stopped chatting there, he even sold his computer. We are all concerned about him, we don't want this to become a neverending chain of suicidal attempts. So for this reason I started a thread on suicide in that forum.

This is what I posted:

"Iím gonna burst here if I donít get this off my chest and post it. So here goes:

Not too many people talk about suicide. And I believe we should educate ourselves on this concerning matter. It's very important and we should not ignore it as most people do.

So if we all can contribute and share positive and encouraging words we can make a difference. Even if it's small. But I think that even if we get to one person, that one life is just as worth saving as it is worth saving hundreds.

Suicide is not the answer to your problems. Suicide might end the physical pain but it does not end the spiritual pain. As harsh as this may sound to some, suicide is a cowardly and selfish act.

When you think of suicide, think also of what can happen after youíre gone. Youíll leave a lot of pain and anger in your loved ones. You might even contribute to the death of a loved one. So, you might be ending your pain, but what about that of others? Of your loved ones? Of your friends?

There is always hope. Uncover your eyes and look around you. Realize that there are many people who care about you and love you. There is always someone willing to listen to you and help you, be him/her a psychologist, a friend, a family member. But you must be willing to accept that help. Please, do not shut yourself from the rest of the world. Do not push away the people that can help you. If you need help, if you want help, please look up to someone you know can help you. Seeking help in forums or chatrooms is very limited. We cannot reach out to help you, not as we want to anyway.

The world may be in turmoil today, but if we try and better ourselves it will make a difference. And instead of dwelling in your pain and despair you should do something to turn that negativeness into something positive. Help someone or a group of people. There are orphanages that need volunteers to work with the children there, and what better than to bring a smile on a childs face. That can make you feel better with yourself and the rest of the world.

Search for positive things. Do not dwell in the negative.

Talk. Do not be afraid to share your problems with a friend. Talking helps to destress you. Do not enclose yourself in a cardboard box. Communicate!

We must learn to overcome obstacles. No matter how bad they are.

Life is too precious. It's a gift we must learn to appreciate. Make the best out of it. Live life to it's fullest. And be happy.

Happiness lies within you.

My message is a simple one: Love yourself! You are special! Life is unique!

This life is worth living!

(All I want with this thread is to let people know and understand that life is unique, that we must seek happiness within ourselves and that we must seek spirituality in order to become better persons.

I don't want to discuss what kind of people are more suicidal, and I don't want to brand people either.)

_________
So I have taken upon myself to discuss suicide in every forum where I chat. I feel that we DO have to talk about it. It must NOT be ignored.

[This message has been edited by CherryBlossom (edited 11-08-2001).]

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


1 posted 11-08-2001 08:53 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

A suicidal mind is one that non-professionals, particularly vantaged in a two-dimensional cyber world, cannot properly diagnose or attempt to heal.

As it happens, many people who are potentially suicidal have a tendency to express themselves poetically - ergo we will occasionally find members posting suicidal poetry.  This has been the most frequently recurring issue that our moderators have dealt with since the inception of our forums over two years ago.

We certainly don't want to downplay its importance, and we do want to acknowledge the intrinsic needs of these volatile people.  

The site you mention obviously has a different philosophy from ours at Passions.  They allow suicidal poetry to remain on their boards.  That, of course, is their right and their choice.  We prefer to keep these issues out of the public eye for a number of reasons.  We don't want to ignore the needs of the suicidal poster, but rather we choose to protect others who might be affected - as you noted did happen in this instance.

Here at Passions we take on each of these situations independently.  We will leave a post intact as long as it doesn't glorify suicide as a viable option to life - or graphically depict the act.  You'd think this would be a relative call, but it is normally pretty obvious when the line is crossed.

We'd be remiss if we were to 'ignore' the potential ramifications of a suicide post.  We remove the post immediately for obvious reasons.  This is a family site.  Suicide just isn't family fare.  The poster is then encouraged to seek personal help from local counselors and given online resources where there are professionals that are better prepared to help them.

This, after all, is a poetry site - We're just poets.  None of us is properly trained to counsel another (particularly someone we've never met) online.  We'll help as best we can - But we know our limitations, and we acquiesce to those who are better qualified to help those who really need it..
CherryBlossom
Junior Member
since 10-13-2001
Posts 16
Communicate!


2 posted 11-08-2001 10:51 AM       View Profile for CherryBlossom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for CherryBlossom

Just a lil side note here, um, the site I mentioned is for jap anime talk.

The rest of the members got news of this cuz her neighbor, who is also a member in the forum, had left a message directed to all who knew this girl and a copy of the letter she left for the boy. This person regrets now having posted that notice, but we think that it should've been done, but maybe in another way. The moderators might delete the thread, but it has become one of positive reactions, so I don't see why it should be deleted. And if it were deleted then we'd be doing exactly the same most people do: ignore the situation. I understand Pip Talk's philosophy, it's a wise one.

This girl did not show a single sign of suicidal tendencies until a day before her succeeded attempt and we did not notice. She left a short message in her signature saying she was sorry but she needed to be alone. Not even the moderators noticed or realized the importance of that note. But the moderators are good as to let us talk about suicide in the general forum. It's an issue that concerns us all.

I know that we are not "qualified" to help. And that these forums are limited. I just want to send a positive message to these people.


[This message has been edited by CherryBlossom (edited 11-08-2001).]

Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 04-06-2000
Posts 10553


3 posted 11-08-2001 07:54 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

Cherry B, I appreciate your compassion, I truly do. Anyone contemplating suicide needs professional, in person help. That's the bottom line. Maybe they come to a "forum" because at the time it seems the only way, but they need those around them, both trained counselors, their family members.
All the good things you posted here are indeed good but a person who is considering
suicide is not looking at anything rationally.

They are not thinking nor acting the way they would and are not going to want to accept 12 steps to survival or something like that. It could be anything, anything at all. A deep rooted problem, a medical problem or maybe both.  

The person who survives a suicide attempt and is successful in treatment will look back with horror at "how and why did I do that?" not believing that they did and ashamed that they did. What they must have throughout the process is a support group there with them, not through the screen and they must have understanding from those who love them.

But as wonderful as poetry is and the interaction forums provide they really shouldn't encourage offering this kind of help beyond checking out the post and seeing if the person is ok, if there is a way to do that.

And please let me stress that you don't know what the person has gone through, you may give the wrong advice, it's not an issue
for counseling through Internet media.
The same as you cannot take medicine through a screen, you just can't get the right kind of long-term help through it either.

I appreciate your compassion for this subject as many suicide survivors are deeply ashamed of their actions and continue to suffer from guilt as a result of that. They feel it to be a weakness and not a strength and it's hard to face people after going through something like that.

God bless you.

Kathleen
nickname "Kay"

"Others can stop you temporarily, but only you can do it permanently."

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


4 posted 11-08-2001 08:19 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

and God Bless you, Kathleen..
CherryBlossom
Junior Member
since 10-13-2001
Posts 16
Communicate!


5 posted 11-08-2001 09:00 PM       View Profile for CherryBlossom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for CherryBlossom

Yes, I know this. Once again, I'm only extending a general positive message. I have no intention of trying to help someone "personally" thru forums. I don't have all the answers and I'm still dealing with my own depression. I'm being realistic here.  

The best way I can help is by sending out this message of positive encouragement towards living. I know I'm not doing this in vain.  

God bless you, too!  
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


6 posted 11-08-2001 11:51 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Wow.

Okay... there's a lot here.

CherryBlossom-

I think your words of encouragement are great, and I wholeheartedly agree with most of them. A lot of suicidal people do not. I guess the advice (I use that term loosely) I would give/have given in the situation is that one can always kill themselves tomorrow.... but if you kill yourself today, you can't live tomorrow, you can't change your mind as an afterthought. To me, that has always seemed like the best argument against suicide... because nobody can argue with it. That's absolute truth, no room for interpretation, no way to argue... and sometimes I think that's what a person needs.

Nan-

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate.... but it is a discussion on how to handle suicide, and suicidal people... and there were some things I found troubling in your post.

'A suicidal mind is one that non-professionals, particularly vantaged in a two-dimensional cyber world, cannot properly diagnose or attempt to heal.'

I understand that I am coming from a completely opinionated point of view.... and the above is very valid... but it's something I can't agree with. While I entirely agree with the site's policies (simply because it is a poetry site and not a therapy site) I'm not of the diagnostic boat. I guess what I mean is... since I'm not being very clear right now, is that there is no diagnosis of the 'suicidal mind' and how is must be 'healed'. Every person is unique... and just because a person has contemplated or tried suicide doesn't make them inherently different than someone who hasn't- just that their perceptions and opinions about life are different. They are not beyond understanding... and the fact that 'normal' people are too afraid to talk to them and they are left to the 'professionals' can be a very alienating feeling.... the best thing I think you can do for someone who is suicidal is to treat them like people, not projects or breakable ornaments, and talk to them with logic. And if that happens to be through a computer, so be it.... if it can help someone, why not? And if it doesn't, you know you at least treated them like a human.

'Suicide just isn't family fare. '

Once again, I agree with the policy... children (or anyone in general) should not be subjected to the glorification of suicide unless they so choose, and if they feel that the content at this site will not contain that type of material, then they should be 'safe' from it.

But saying that suicide isn't family fare is very wrong.... every adolescent that attempts suicide (and there are a LOT... suicide is the third biggest killer amongst teens... and those are just the 'successful' attempts) every parent or family member that kills themselves makes it a family fare. Suicide needs to be talked about... because kids that are too young to even realize the significance of what they are doing are dying everyday because nobody bothered to tell them the significance, or share that it does get better. No... glorification isn't the key... conversation is. No, that's not this (or any) website's job... it's the parents.... but there are a lot of parents that suck at their jobs... and someone's got to pick up the slack. Once again, is it anyone's responsibility? No, not unless they choose to take it.... but hopefully more people will begin taking that responsibility on....

Irish Rose-

I don't necessarily think that people who have attempted suicide are always ashamed... I also think that some people can still rationalize the reasons they wanted to take their own life, it's just that either the problem has passed, or they realize that it's not the right way out. I don't know... it's just that I know a lot of people who have tried or wanted to try killing themselves and nobody's really all that ashamed of it... I completely understand where you are coming from with that idea... but just out of curiosity, do you personally feel that it's something to be ashamed of, or just think that formerly suicidal people still do? If so, do you think that 'recovered' suicide attempts still don't see things clearly?

To all: As far as professional help goes, that only works when a person really wants the help. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. You can't just say to a suicidal person that they are sick and need professional help (translation: pills). Suicide is not a disease, it is a symptom of something very, very wrong in a person's life or perceptions and no professional can medicate that away. Yeah, I know, that's not how it's supposed to work, meds and therapy are supposed interact with each other in a comprehensive therepeutic program... but in most cases it's just a bunch of doctors and therapists ping-ponging you back and forth to see which 'cocktail' 'works' and which anger management get to know yourself better workbooks help you work out your feelings best until you're not even you anymore. And I know that a lot of people are going to disagree with this, and I would never think differently of somebody for taking prescription mood altering drugs, but in my own life, I would very honestly rather be crazy and suicidal than prodded into an induced contentment.

Okay. Rant over.

I eat only sleep and air -Nicole Blackman

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


7 posted 11-09-2001 08:22 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Re: hush
quote:

if it can help someone, why not? And if it doesn't, you know you at least treated them like a human.


This is a given... We have done so, and we'd do it again - and still refer to professional agencies.
quote:

But saying that suicide isn't family fare is very wrong

Please read my words more carefully.  The antecedent in that particular paragraph is poetry. Ergo, the inference is that suicidal poetry is not family fare.

As for "discussion" of the subject, I'll leave that to the professionals.
Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 04-06-2000
Posts 10553


8 posted 11-09-2001 09:48 AM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

Hi Hush, I just came back to read this once more so I'll answer your questions. I was speaking from my own experience. Yes, I am ashamed and not everyone feels that way.
As far as prescription drugs go, they are helping me personally, and I'd rather be alive. My Dr. tells me I'll need the medicine for the rest of my life. So I take it. If I were diabetic I would take insulin.
As far as the other goes, yes, a person wants to want the help. I do, I did and I am getting it. No, I don't always do everything I'm supposed to   but I'm trying.

The reason I want the help and accept the help is the look in my children's faces on January 13 in the ER....fear, love, concern, horror, they had no idea what I had kept in for 35 years. No idea at all and neither did I.  My son lost a friend to suicide shortly before that, and I, his mother, nearly put him through that torment again. So yes, there is shame and guilt there but I'm working through it. It's not a disease, it IS a symptom. And many times writing can be an obsession also. Believe me, I know.
It doesn't always bring release, it can hide you from reality. Writing has another side, it can actually do more harm than good!

My own recent breakthrough was when I went to see a woman at my church who is also a counselor. She's a pastor's wife. I was stunned when she began sharing with me how she, 12 years ago, hated her family, tried to kill herself and spent two weeks in a psyche ward. No one would have believed.
Now, she is helping other people through counseling.

Well, if this thread helps someone else
that's good but Nan is right....professional help is needed.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


9 posted 11-10-2001 12:59 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

But isn't suicidal poetry just a means of discussing or sharing feelings about suicide, especially when shared? A lot of times, the 'children' that the rule is protecting are the authors of the material in question... which makes me think that suicidal poetry is very important to family life, if a member of that family is suicidal and is searching for a way to express it.

And what exactly is meant by the word 'family' here? What is a family, and what constitutes proper material for family viewing? I think that when the word itself ('family') is presumed to have inherently 'wholesome' (a relative term to which we will all apply our own biases and ideas) or positive connotations, when it is presumed to mean one thing to everyone we start making generalizations... and I guess I'm just curious about exactly what you mean....

I eat only sleep and air -Nicole Blackman

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


10 posted 11-10-2001 07:25 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

That would be another thread in its own right.  Feel free to initiate it.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Feelings >> Suicide: Why we must talk Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors