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Passions in Poetry

Capital Punishment

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LoveBug
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0 posted 06-10-2001 06:08 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Most of you have probably read Sharon's piece in Open about the execution of Timothy McVeigh. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this topic. I'm really interested in seeing what the opposite side says to justify their feelings.

Here's what I think. Killing is wrong. Period. It doesn't matter if it is done by an individual or the federal government. We all know that premature death is horrible,  but somehow people think that causing the premature death of another person will somehow justify the death of the victim. Two wrongs do not make a right! People who have lost loved ones should know better than anyone the value of human life, but somehow they forget that the killers are also human!

For those of you who are Christians, remember that Christ told us that we should forgive those who do wrong!

And, of course, Christ Himself was also the victim of capital punishment...


"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli

catalinamoon
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1 posted 06-10-2001 07:56 PM       View Profile for catalinamoon   Email catalinamoon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit catalinamoon's Home Page   View IP for catalinamoon

I usually have mixed feelings, because I hate the crime done, especially in this case. But I can't stand it, really, it makes me want to cry and it also terrifies me that the government can take that kind of power. From what I read, McVeigh was protesting that in the first place, though in a horribly wrong way. I am resolved to watch NO tv tomorrow, so I don't have to see any details. And it feels hypocritical to me to say this, when I think if my little granddaughter had been in that daycare, would I feel differently. Yeah I probably would, but still that would not make it right.
Peace
Sandra

[This message has been edited by catalinamoon (edited 06-11-2001).]

Elizabeth
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2 posted 06-10-2001 08:38 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

You know, I can't believe in the death penalty. I just cannot do that. For those of you who are believe in God, the last time I checked, I wasn't God, so who am I to take someone's life? Yes, I know that's what Timothy McVeigh did, but I don't say that what he did was right either. Also, when McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building, he was protesting against the government and he believed he was justified in doing so. When we support his execution, we believe we are justified in doing so......and so we are doing the same thing, doing what we say he should not have done. People have felt empathy for the family of the victims, but are they feeling any empathy for McVeigh's family? After all, they had nothing to do with his plans, and they are losing a son, a brother, etc. Regardless of what he did, I'm sure his family still loves him, whether they agree with his actions or not. They need to be considered too.
Acies
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3 posted 06-10-2001 10:55 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Erica and Elizabeth have summed up everything I have to say.  2 wrongs don't make a right, and what gives the government the right to execute someone.  

hi Sweets, Lizzy, Ina, Erin, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Maree, Mic

Marge Tindal
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4 posted 06-10-2001 11:17 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
   noles1@totcon.com

Marge Tindal
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5 posted 06-10-2001 11:41 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

The Victims
of the April 19, 1995
Oklahoma City Murrah Building Bombing
In Memoriam
______________________________________
Lucio Aleman Jr.
Teresa Alexander
Richard Arthur Allen
Ted Leon Allen
Baylee Almon
Diane Althouse
Rebecca Anderson
Pamela Argo
Saundra Avery
Peter Robert Avillanoza
Calvin Coolidge Battle
Peola Battle
Danielle Nicole Bell
Oleta Christine Biddy
Shelley DeAnn Bland
Andrea Yvette Blanton
Olen Burl Bloomer
Lola Rene Boldon
James Everett Boles
Mark Allen Bolte
Cassandra Kay Booker
Carol Louise Bowers
Peach Lyn Bradley
Woodrow Brady
Paul Gregory Broxterman
Gabreon Bruce
Kimberly R. Burgess
David Neil Burkett
Donald Earl Burns
Cynthia Campbell
Michael J. Carrillo
Karen Gist Carr
Rona Chafey
Zachary Chavez
Sharon Louise Wood Chestnut
Robert Chipman
Terry Smith Rees
Kimberly Kay Clark
Margaret Louise Clark
Anthony Cristopher Cooper
Antonio Ansara Cooper, Jr.
Dana Leanne Cooper
Harley R. Cottingham
Aaron Coverdale
Elijah Coverdale
Jaci Rae Coyne
Kathy Cregan
Richard Leroy Cummins
Steven Douglas Curry
Brenda Daniels
Sgt. Benjamin Davis
Diana Lynne Day
Peter L. DeMaster
Castine Brooks Deveroux
Kim Robin Cousins
Sheila Driver
Taylor Eaves
Ashley Eckles
Susan Jane Ferrell
Carol June "Chip" Fields
Katherine Ann Finley
Judy JoAnn Froh Fisher
Linda Louise Florence
Donald Lee Fritzler
Mary Anne Harper Fritzler
Tevin Garrett
Laura W. Garrison
Jamie Lee Lialkowski Genzer
Margaret Goodson
Kevin Lee Gottshall II
Ethel Louise Griffin
Colleen Juretta Guiles
Randolph Guzman
Kayla Marie Haddock
Cheryl Hammon
Ronald Vernon Harding
Thomas L. Hawthorne, Sr.
Doris Adele Higginbottom
Anita Hightower
Thompson Eugene Hodges
Peggy Louise Jenkins Holland
Linda Coleen Housley
George Michael Howard
Wanda Howell
Robin Huff
Anna Jean Hurlburt
Charles Hurlburt
Paul Douglas Ice
Christi Jenkins
Norma Jean Johnson
Raymond Lee Johnson
Larry James Jones
Alvin Justes
Blake Ryan Kennedy
Carole Sue Khalil
Valerie Koelsch
Carolyn Ann Kreymborg
Teresa Lea Lauderdale
Catherine Mary Leinen
Carrie Ann Lenz
Donald Ray Leonard
Lakesha Levy
Dominique London
Rheta Ione Bender Long
Michael Lee Loudenslager
Aurelia Donna Luster
Robert Luster Jr.
Mickey Bryant Maroney
James Kenneth Martin
Gilberto X. Martinez
James Anthony McCarthy
Kenneth Glenn McCullough
Betsy Janice McGonnell
Linda Gail Griffin McKinney
Cartney Jean McCraven
Claude Arthur Medearis
Claudette Duke Meek
Frankie Ann Merrell
Derwin Wade Miller
Eula Leigh Mitchell
John Clayton Moss III
Patricia Trish Nix
Jerry Lee Parker
Jill Diane Randolph
Michelle Ann Reeder
Mary L. Rentie
Antonio Castillo Reyes
Kathryn Elizabeth Ridley
Trudy Rigney
Claudine Ritter
Christine Nicole Rosas
Sonja Lynn Stroud Sanders
Lanny L. Scroggins
Kathy Lynn Seidl
Leora Lee Sells
Karan Denise Shepherd
Chase Smith
Colton Smith
Sgt. Victoria Lee Sohn
John Thomas Stewart
Delores M. Stratton
Emilio Rangel Tapia
Victoria Jeanette Texter
Charlotte A. Thomas
Michael George Thompson
Virginia Thompson
Kayla Marie Titsworth
Rick L. Tomlin
Larue Ann Treanor
Luther Heartman Treanor
Larry Turner
Jules Valdez
John Karl VanEss III
Johnnie Allen Wade
David Jack Walker
Robert Nolan Walker
Wanda Lee Watkins
Michael Don Weaver
Julie Marie Welch
Robert G. Westberry
Alan G. Whicher
Jo Ann Whittenberg
Frances Williams
Scott Dwain Williams
William Stephen Williams
Clarence Wilson
Ronota Woodbridge
Tresia Worten
John Youngblood

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
   noles1@totcon.com

LoveBug
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6 posted 06-11-2001 12:26 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Those people should be remembered, but should the death of another be the way?

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli

Dopey Dope
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7 posted 06-11-2001 02:32 AM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Hmmmmmm.......he killed them......and I do not condone killing....but this dude should be treated how they would have done in medievil times.... I despise those who take lives sencessly.
Marge Tindal
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8 posted 06-11-2001 07:25 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

In my opinion - one who kills another knowing that the consequences of those actions should they be caught, tried and found guilty would be execution - should be executed.

quote:
when McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building, he was protesting against the government and he believed he was justified in doing so.

If we believe we are 'justified' we should go ahead and commit the horrendous act of terroristically murdering 168 innocent people?

They key is innocent -
The 168 victims were innocent - Timothy McVeigh is guilty and should pay the price accorded by law.

quote:
People have felt empathy for the family of the victims, but are they feeling any empathy for McVeigh's family?

Yes. This mother feels great sympathy for his family and will pray for their comfort in their time of loss.

quote:
what gives the government the right to execute someone.

The laws of the United States Of America, set forth by the people.

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
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Sunshine
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9 posted 06-11-2001 11:30 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

The comment is raised:

quote:
...the government can take that kind of power...


would you have a powerless government?

Would you have no rules?

And...if it happened to your family?  To your spouse or child?

The laws have been set down, and various states have, at times, gone the way of the people by vote.  Penalties for crimes have swayed in the past.  They will continue to sway, by the people, in the future.

Had McVeigh been under age, I would assume that some responsibility would have been given to his parents, rightly so.

As an adult, with the knowledge that he was going to carry through those actions that were/are in violation of this country's RULES....

and admitting his guilt....

he then assigned himself accordingly the punishment as is described by law.

Is it right?  Wrong?  For now, it is the law.

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 06-11-2001).]

LoveBug
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10 posted 06-11-2001 12:55 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

It may be the law, but is the law right?

If I lost a loved one, as I said before, I think that I would appreciate human life even more. Yesterday I was watching CNN's coverage, and they had the father of a victim on there. This guy went all around the world, protesting the death penalty. Why? He said his daughter had been against it since she was a teenager. Sure, he lost a daughter, but he doesn't feel that killing someone else will make that any better. Yes, McVeigh should have been punished, but now he is a martyr to all the people who agreed with what he did. What if someone decides to avenge his death? Just keeps the senseless circle of death going around...



"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli


[This message has been edited by LoveBug (edited 06-11-2001).]

Mysteria
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11 posted 06-11-2001 01:21 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Now as a Canadian our laws are somewhat different than yours and sometimes I sure don't agree with some of the things I see, here or there.  I watched t.v. from up here in absolute awe at a famous trial that in my opinion, freedom was bought by power and money.

In this particular discussion, all I first wanted to say is that I fully believe in freedom of speech, but my first reaction was, was this the right place to have posted this poem in the first place(in the general poetry section), considering the nature of the subject?  This area is viewed by not only mature adults but anyone really that is sent a link, as I do this all the time to very young girls in Big Sisters to read your poetry and they often spend time at the site.

Secondly, this trail was a trial by the "law" set up by you, the people of the United States, and if in fact the outcome is not one that suited the masses, then you of course through quorum need to have them changed.  However, if you believe that this man should have been tried by conscience, or religious convictions, I have attached yet another thing for you to peruse in your decision of the outcome.  I for one believe that if a person consciously with full knowledge of their actions, causes any kind of harm, including death to another human being, they must suffer the consequences of their actions, and in this case I felt that sickness inside my heart, over an action such as this, 168 times!  Yes...I believe this man should have beene tried within the limits of the court, and if found guilty, that his actions were acted upon accordingly, dicated by the law set up by the people, and also for some closure to the INNOCENT victims so easily eliminated from having a full life.  Here is the Sermon On The Mount perhaps that will help, as quite often the quote of "an eye for an eye" is totally misused out of context:
http://www.gospelchapel.com/Sermons/Archives/Mount/28_84.htm

By the way - I am not a religious fanatic but in this particular instance, I went looking for this one!  

Just my opinion.  And to further tell you how strongly I feel - if someone in my own family were to kill another human being knowing it was a) immoral and b) against the law, I would simply say, "God, have mercy on your soul"!  I do not believe we have the right under any circumstances to take the life of another human being and I have personally been in a suitation once in my own life, where not only should I have done this, but could have, so I do speak from some experience and bear the scars to show my decision now and my opinion today.  

This has been in the hearts and minds of the survivors of these victims since April 1996, and if any of you are reading this, may you find forgiveness in your heart for this horrible dead done to you, and may the light of the life of the person you lost forever shine on in the knowing that some of us truly do care. And to the family of Timothy McVeigh, may you someday grow to understand why, forgive, and move on from this terror.  God Bless!

Just my opinion, thank you.

[This message has been edited by Mysteria (edited 06-11-2001).]

Sunshine
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12 posted 06-11-2001 02:04 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

You have a valid point, Elizabeth.  Now.  You are willing to pay for the care and health maintenance, room and board for the person that took your family member's life, right?

And, Mysteria, I am glad to see that as one who does not now live in the United States, pay so much attention to the media, and have some good comments to make.  

LB, before you think I am taking the side of capital punishment, please know: [and think of this please in the way of a scenario] if your brother took the life of my daughter by way of a car accident, and he had been drinking while driving, it is still an accident.  That he did not pay heed to the rules of the state and willingly got behind the wheel, does not make him a criminal in the sense that he knew he was going to go out and kill someone by his actions.

I think, then, that is where the difference resides, at least, for me.

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 06-11-2001).]

Mysteria
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13 posted 06-11-2001 02:27 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

May God Have Mercy On His Soul!
http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/11/mcveigh.03/index.html

Timothy McVeigh was executed this morning!  My prayers are with the families of all those whose hearts are now in sorrow.  May God bless you and heal you.


~*~ Remember to tell someone today that you love them as tomorrow may never come ~*~

[This message has been edited by Mysteria (edited 06-11-2001).]

Acies
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14 posted 06-11-2001 03:42 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

The question is not whether it's the law or not.  The question is, is it right?  My morals and values tell me that it isn't.  

hi Sweets, Lizzy, Ina, Erin, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Maree, Mic

Elizabeth
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15 posted 06-11-2001 04:37 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

There are plenty of things the law protects that I don't agree with. I am against abortion, and yet my tax dollars go to that because abortion is legally protected by the law. I don't like that. Just because something is the law doesn't mean that I agree with it or that it's right.

If someone I cared about was killed, I would hope that I am able to forgive that person. I can't say that I would, because I have never been faced with that dilemma, and I pray God I never will be. I admire the people who are able to say, "I lost someone I loved to a senseless tragedy, but no matter what I do, nothing will be able to bring them back. Why fight for the death penalty?" That to me is truly admirable.
Acies
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16 posted 06-11-2001 05:01 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

I agree with you Elizabeth  

hi Sweets, Lizzy, Ina, Erin, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Maree, Mic

Ron
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17 posted 06-11-2001 05:45 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I have rather strong feelings on both side of this issue, but would like to throw out a few conflicting points for discussion. Because I also have strong feelings about misplaced logic.  

Fact: The legal process for executing a condemned criminal in this country is a very long and complex one. In every single instance, it costs the tax payers MORE money to kill a man than to imprison him for life. Those who argue for capital punishment because they don't feel they should pay for life imprisonment need to reconsider their justifications.

Similarly, those who argue against the death penalty based on the sanctity of human life, claiming that governments do not have the right to take a life, need to give some serious thought to the parallels of war and law enforcement. Deny your government this right and you deny them the ability to protect you and your freedoms, and condemn every soldier who has ever fought for their country. Your police force could not only not protect you, they couldn't even protect themselves. If you argue that protection is different than capital punishment, you concede that your government does have the right to take a life -- and we are then only debating the circumstances.

Those who argue capital punishment is valid because it's supported by law, as well as those who argue the law itself is wrong, will each find themselves treading a very dangerous path. The founders of the United States based their entire revolution on the premise that unjust laws MUST be defied. But, they then put into place a system where each of us has it within our power to change the laws we find distasteful. Should you obey an immoral law? Do you have the right to defy a law even if you have made no attempt to change it? These are tricky questions with profound implications.

Issues that deal with basic moral decisions, like capital punishment and abortion, will never have easy answers. It seems to me, in most cases, each of us reaches our own conclusions based on our "gut" rather than through logic. I'm not at all sure there's anything wrong with that, either. Whether a person is getting married, planning a family, or pulling a trigger, I think each of us has to follow our own heart if we are to sleep at night. Your gut is who you are, and perhaps it should be unnecessary to justify that.

But I do think, if you seek logical justifications for your gut, you need to be accurate and think about your arguments very carefully. And I suspect any time you find an easy answer to an impossible question, there's probably a flaw in you logic.  


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18 posted 06-11-2001 08:13 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

FYI from Internet information available:

The money trail

  By the mid-1990s the US was spending in excess of $200 billion annually on the crime-control industry.8
  An individual sentenced to five years for a $300 theft costs the public approximately $125,000.8
  A Rand Corporation Study predicts California's new three-strikes-and-you're-out law will cost an additional $5.5 billion in criminal-justice expenditures.9
  In Canada between 1971 and 1991 the number of police officers increased 41% and the number of private security guards increased by 126%. By 1991 private security forces outnumbered police by about 2 to 1.10

  In the US two major companies account for 50% of private contracts to run prisons.11
  Average yearly cost per inmate (1994)12 US $30,000, Aotearoa $40,000, Canada $51,000
  New Conservative proposals for a tougher penal regime will increase the UK's incarcerated population by 28,000 and require the building of 48 new prisons at an estimated cost of $4.5 billion and an additional running cost of $945 million.13
http://www.oneworld.org/ni/issue282/facts.html

BUFFALO, N.Y. -- Survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing are disturbed that suspect Timothy McVeigh's 12-attorney defense team is being funded by the federal government he is accused of attacking.
''I think, if we continue to have trials that cost this much money, the trials themselves will victimize the taxpayer,'' Dr. Paul Heath, president of the Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors Association, told the Buffalo News for a story in Sunday's editions.
''It's going to cause a significant attitude change on the part of the taxpayers toward the judicial system.''
More
<> Witness has long criminal record
McVeigh, a Pendleton, N.Y., native, has a team of 12 defense attorneys, each working at a cost of $125 an hour, the News reported. And since McVeigh has no money, federal taxpayers are paying the bill.
''I've been told by (McVeigh's lead attorney) that before this trial is over, if you include the prosecution side and the FBI, it will cost in excess of $50 million,'' said Heath, who was in his fifth-floor office when the bomb went off on April 19, 1995. ''The Murrah building only cost $37 million.''
McVeigh goes on trial March 31 for the bombing, which killed 168 people and injured more than 500. Some are already calling his trial the most expensive proceeding in American legal history.
Because prosecutors seek the death penalty and McVeigh has no money to pay for his defense, federal law guarantees him two court-appointed lawyers. But McVeigh's lead attorney, Stephen Jones, has added others to the team as the case grows more and more complicated. At times, 15 lawyers have worked on his defense, the Buffalo News said.
''The Justice Department has tremendous resources available to prosecute a major case, and in the interest of keeping a level playing field, there must be a strong defense,'' said David A. Sellers, spokesman for the U.S. Office of Courts Administration.
''It's often very difficult to find a lawyer who will even take a death-penalty case. There are entire states that don't have one lawyer who will take one.''
Because the case is being tried in Denver to ensure a pool of jurors not directly affected by the bombing, the government is also paying for the living expenses of the defense team.
Living expenses for McVeigh's 12 lawyers, four secretaries, three support staff members and project manager costs taxpayers about $50,000 a month, Jones has said. The trial could last six months.
Taxpayers also pick up travel expenses. An investigator working on the case for McVeigh recently traveled from San Francisco to Buffalo to interview witnesses.
Another eight lawyers will represent suspect Terry L. Nichols, McVeigh's former Army friend -- also at taxpayer expense -- for his separate trial.
The government team is expected to number at least nine prosecutors at both trials.
In 1994, the latest year for which statistics are available, taxpayers spent $263.5 million to defend criminal suspects in the federal courts, according to the U.S. Office of Courts Administration.
More than 81,000 defendants that year were represented by attorneys whose fees or salaries were paid by the federal government.
http://www.ardmoreite.com/stories/021797/news/news03.html


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19 posted 06-11-2001 08:16 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I know this is going to sound lame....but capital punishment hurts my heart. Everytime I think of it, I start to cry! For me, this is not an issue of money or Government or legal issues...it's just that my heart says don't kill....that's all.
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20 posted 06-11-2001 09:10 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

I do believe that capital punishment is totally a different kind of killing compared to say a war or law inforcement circumstance.  I believe that's why law inforcers are strictly ask to fire shots only in defense of themselves.  In other words, when their own lives are in danger.  And they themselves get prosecuted if done other.  And when it comes to war, I find this also a totally different situation altogether.  Those who fight in defense of their own lives and country are in no way wrong for the acts that are accompanied by war, except for certain situations such as inhumane treatment of war prisoners.  I believe that's why treaties were imposed when it comes to treating war prisoners.  And people who violated this understanding usually go to trial for inhumane acts.  With regards to people under capital punishment, their existence I believe no longer causes a threat to other lives.  And to the government specially.  I do look at all 3 to be a different situation or circumstance.  I guess it all depends on whether it's self defense or not.  

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LoveBug
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21 posted 06-11-2001 11:38 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Here are just some of my personal thoughts.

I could never fight a war. I do not believe in war. There is no way I could justify killing in the name of "freedom" or whatever. I might be able to kill in self-defence, but even if I could, I would feel guilty for the rest of my life. I was in the car when my mom hit a squirrel in my car the other day, and I cried for hours. I don't eat meat, because that's how much respect I have for life. I most certainly respect the lives of those killed in the Oklahoma City bombing, but I also respect the life of Timothy McVeigh. I guess it may come down to this question: is one life more sacred than another?

I respect and appreciate all of your opinions, although I don't agree with them all.  

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli

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22 posted 06-11-2001 11:42 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

But, acire, you have essentially just said you believe that government-sanctioned killing is acceptable. Quibbling over the details is not the same as taking the high moral ground and saying governments don't have the right to take a life.

One could easily argue that law enforcement officials have killed wrongly in the past and will do so again in the future, or that war is just an extension of "might makes right" and very rarely a matter of self-protection. I can guarantee you that someone somewhere will argue that execution of murders is a deterrent that "protects" the future of society (all statistical evidence to the contrary).

My point is simple. If you are looking for a logical rationalization, either for or against, I think you are going to be disappointed. Though I welcome the search, I believe there are no easy answers to be found.  As Sharon so poetically expressed, I think each person has to follow their own heart (which should also include voting and participating).  
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23 posted 06-12-2001 12:45 AM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

I thought of something today....

People ask me, when I say that I don't believe in capital punishment, "But what if that was your loved one killed in Oklahoma City? How would you feel then?" I in turn ask them this:

How would you feel if Timothy McVeigh was your loved one? What if that was your son, brother, husband, or friend being executed?
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24 posted 06-12-2001 12:54 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Right on, Elizabeth!

As for the government thing, I am only 16 years old. For now, my decisions are still being made for me, which really sucks. But I will be making my views known until the day I can cast a vote against it.

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli

 
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