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California School Shooting

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LoveBug
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0 posted 03-05-2001 03:50 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

MSNBC Story

There was yet another school shooting today, in a California suburb. 2 people are dead, including a 15 year old boy, and 13 others are hurt. I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions about these and on past occurences of school violence.
Dopey Dope
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1 posted 03-05-2001 04:34 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Wow this is simply horrible. This kind of behavior sickens me. It gives a bad reputation for the rest of us teenagers. Something has to be done...........this is becoming too regular!!!



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I'm in love with my shadow
I admire it daily
Allan Riverwood
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2 posted 03-05-2001 04:58 PM       View Profile for Allan Riverwood   Email Allan Riverwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allan Riverwood

Yes... not only teens, but any other aspects of teen pop culture often become blamed for such violent acts, like video games or music. It is important to realize that this was the act of a person, not a culture.
Sorry to have to mention that, but I remember the columbine shooting getting a few of my favourite musical artists into trouble.
I did not want to see another incident like this occur.
Truly a shame that such people need to exist, and even if they do, that they have such freedom and access to the necessary resources to commit such an act.
I hope that they are dealt with accordingly.
~Allan


Stupidity makes the world go around...and people like us laugh. ~~Elizabeth, to Allan

LoveBug
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3 posted 03-05-2001 05:54 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I agree with you both. It is important to remember that most teenagers aren't the ones who come to school with guns, they are the ones you see running away with tears streaming down their faces. It is also important to mention the role that pop culture is thought to play in these people's behavior. It's true that art can be powerful, but I don't think that anyone who has a normal mindset could listen to a song or play a game and then think that it's ok to kill people.

Any more thoughts?

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli
Acies
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4 posted 03-05-2001 06:35 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Any violence towards anyone specially the youth is very troubling for me. Specially, in instances such as this wherein the person commiting the crime is a child too.

My prayers are to the family of the departed

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.
Irie
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5 posted 03-06-2001 12:53 AM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

Well....
There are many factors that I think contribute to this growing problem we are dealing with.

Families are not what they used to be.
There was a time when families actually sat down for dinner, at a table and talked about each others day.
Now, we have fast food, eating on the run, children and family members being hushed so others can hear the TV.

With the high speed hustle and bustle of today...children are the one's who seem to be left out, less time spent with them, playing, reading, talking....etc.

I for one am guilty of this and I try REALLY hard to spend as much time with my almost 4 year old son as I can.
When I sit down and read with him, watch a movie with him...when we all sit at the table together....
go out side and play hide and seek etc etc etc....
I see him change....his face lights up....and is sooooooo happy.
The smallest things can really make a big difference in a child.

Schools are also partly to blame.
Their standards seem to keep falling to lower and lower levels.

Peer Pressure.....
There is such an influence on kids these days.
"You must be perfect" attitude just stinks.
Not only from school mates, but adult society as well.
Magazines, movies TV, radio....it's all an image!

Oh man...I could go on and on with this....
I don't belive there is ONE thing....
It's a combination of things all bundled up.

I do feel that kids deserve much more attention than they get these days.
And the "signs" that these kids put out are missed by many....WHY?
Maybe because others are too wrapped up in trying to keep up with society to notice....
Kids and adults included.

OK, JMO.......
In the end....it's all still very sad and frustrating.


~Sheri

"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"


Skyfyre
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6 posted 03-06-2001 02:54 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

With apologies to all of those who feel compelled to plead the case of the "poor misguided soul" who committed this crime, I must say that I hope the justice system makes an example of this young man.  I was thrilled to hear that he is to be charged as an adult (though he is currently being held in a juvenile facility).  Perhaps if there were stiffer sentences for these offenders, the alarming "trend" of violence which seems to be sweeping the American public school scene will lose some of its thunder.

Shoddy parenting or no, an individual that is capable of such an act is a threat to society and should be treated as such.  I don't want a person like this anywhere near my children or anyone else's.  I cannot imagine the grief and heartache that the families of the victims must now deal with -- my prayers and my tears are with them in this terrible loss.

On a tangent, did anyone hear that this kid actually told people -- even adults -- that he was planning to do this?  What were these people thinking??  At the very least, I would have thought that someone would have insisted that the child's parents take appropriate measures (counseling, checking the child's backpack before school, etc) ... personally, I would have alerted the authorities, hoping that a visit from the local PD might put the fear of God into this boy ...


Sigh.

Linda
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7 posted 03-06-2001 08:48 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

This sickens me. I remember the afternoon of the Columbine tragedy too well. It was with horror that I realized I was actually praying for someone to commit suicide. But I did just that. One of the first things I taught my kids was that if another child had a weapon, or threatened to get a weapon, to come home immediately or find a responsible adult. I also told them not to tell the other kids they were going to tell--I'm that concerned for their safety. Sure enough, one boy did indeed have easy access to his father's handgun. That boy's mother was horrified when I knocked on her door and told her not only did I know they had a handgun--but knew the exact location of it. As a parent I can only hope and pray I teach my children the right combination of responsibility and "street smarts." And by the way? After it became apparent to that boy that it was MY son who told? I had to keep my son home in fear of his safety in the neighborhood. I am a stay at home mom--and sometimes it seems to me like I am the only adult home in the daytime. Which became apparent one day when a child I barely knew sliced his foot on a shovel--and a barrage of children knocked on my door for help. There simply was no one else home. We live in an increasingly violent society, and the combination of that, unsupervised kids and easy access to handguns is simply and obviously deadly. Sighs and tears, here, because I do not have the answers. I can only try to teach my children responsibility and pray that others will do the same. If anyone else has further ideas? Of course I would be very interested to hear them. My prayers go out to the victims and their families.
White Wolf
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8 posted 03-07-2001 04:10 PM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

I must say that I am not suprised this has happened again. I have been thinking a lot about this problem for the last couple of years. A couple of years ago this very same thing happened "too close to home". I live in Springfield, OR and many of you may remember the Thurston shootings. I am really starting to get tired of people always pointing the blame at something. The parents, media, society, gun control and even organized religion have had fingers pointed at them. I don't believe these are the actual problem(s). I believe they are the symptoms of something bigger and yet simpler that we have failed to realize. As to what the actual problem is, I am unsure but I am working on it. It seems to me that we should ask the kids why they did what they did and then ask or figure out why they feel that way. At this time I tend to think it has something to do with anger. I have noticed that today as a people we lack something that allows us to express our anger in a possitive way. I have seen it over and over, a kid tells someone they are angry at something someone did and that person in turn gets angry back at them because they told them that. How are we then supposed to express our anger in a possitive manner? I know from personal experience that the expression of anger is necessary otherwise we just sit on it and let it build until we explode, which is probably what is happening in these children. About 12 years ago me and two friends had a plan in place to bomb our local middle school because we had a lot of anger/rage toward the school system or more accurately we had a build up of rage and anger at many people who picked on us at school. And when I say picked on I mean creulty. The only reason we didn't go through with it is because of my dad. He had caught me in a serries of lies that were related to, even though he didn't know, the plans we had set. He broke me of my lying through a seris of chores he made me do for every lie he caught me in. Needless to say he broke me of the lying after a month of such chores. I was stuborn. I am not sure why it prevented our plans but I think it had to do with the fact that I could no longer lie to myself. The point I am trying to make is that many of us at a young age learn to "bottle up" our anger. In essence we learn to express our anger is wrong or more trouble than it is worth until the day come when we cannot control it. Maybe the answer is anger management. I will leave you with this final question. How far down does that anger go, where does it start?


The White Wolf
Elizabeth
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9 posted 03-07-2001 10:34 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

OK, now it's time for my two cents.

School violence has actually gone DOWN in recernt yearas. The media however, insists on playing up each and every incident, martyrizing the victims and painting the perpetrators as sick, evil, bloodthirsty monsters. Has anyone ever thought of doing something to PREVENT this? I don't mean metal detectors and locker searches, I mean people learning to have some respect for each other! Ever since Columbine I haven't blamed society and the media and the parents for the school shootings, I place more of the blame on the students--the "popular" ones, who make school into hell for those they consider to be below their level. I went through that for 13 years of my life. I was always the "loser" who never had a partner for in-class projects and was mocked and made fun of every day. Maybe if some people's egos could shrink to about a tenth of the size they actually are, this wouldn't happen!

Let me also add that I am glad the perpetrator is to be tried as an adult....because while it was brought on by certain actions, he STILL made the ultimate choice. He pulled the trigger, not anyone else. However, I also hope that if he needs help, he gets it.
LoveBug
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10 posted 03-08-2001 03:55 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

You have all made some valid points, but I'd like to concentrate on the teasing and sometimes downright torture (as wolf said) that goes on. I'm not the most popular kid. I'm kinda chubby, really brainy, and not afraid to tell a basketball player or cheerleader exactly what I think of them. I get teased sometimes, but I think the only reason I don't get tortured is because of the latter characteristic I stated. The small people who pick on others don't like to be contested by someone who knows the meaning of the word contested, so they usually back off. The main targets of tourture at my school are a freshman who doesn't always dress right or smell so fresh, and a very angry, disturbed, movie-warped self-described starving artist from the senior class. These guys wouldn't dream of saying anything to a ballplayer. They have been treated this way their whole life. Maybe these guys who do this (not that this is any kind of excuse) is so that, for one moment, they can have power over the kind of people who have had power over them their entire lives. Just a thought.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts, everyone. The best way to find a solution is discussion.

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli
White Wolf
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11 posted 03-15-2001 08:17 PM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

LoveBug- I handled my problems of people picking on or teasing me a different way through out my high school years. Durring high school I was average to athletic. I think I got picked on because I was a "threat" to them and I was also a nonconformist or more commonly known as a loner. I used cunning rather than the direct approach. I would for the most part just keep silent. On occasion I would be rather witty in my remarks, when I made them. Some of those remarks would cause a situation that could seemingly only end in physical confrontation or a "fight". But I always managed to get out of them leaving my would be opponent feeling dumb and would walk off before they knew why a fight hadn't occured. I am proud of the fact that of my twenty-four years on this earth I have never once been in a physical fight.

I believe that we have a point as to how the kids in school can and sometimes are cruel. But the real question is where does it start and where can the link be cut.


The White Wolf
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12 posted 03-16-2001 07:46 PM       View Profile for Fading Away   Email Fading Away   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Fading Away

Personally, I think that the whole school shooting thing wouldn't be so much of a problem if the news wouldn't publicize it so much. That is an influence on other kids around the nation who don't feel like they have any other way out, and that causes copy-cat situations. I think that the whole problem would be much less of a problem if the shootings were just publicized throughout the community and not throughout the nation.

--Marie

I never thought that you would ever be the one to let me down. I guess that just goes to show how wrong I always am.
catalinamoon
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13 posted 03-18-2001 12:35 PM       View Profile for catalinamoon   Email catalinamoon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit catalinamoon's Home Page   View IP for catalinamoon

Just wanted to add that there are so many factors involved in these things, I can't begin to know how anyone can solve it. But the pressure put on kids today is absurd. I do not currently have a child in school, but I have friends and family that do. Why, at the age of 10 or 11 now, do kids have to be pressured to work at school all day, while at the same time "fitting in", being popular, attractive, etc.? Then have hours of homework, try to please the parents who are sometimes very demanding (this is from my own personal experience), please the teacher, please the other kids,plan for their future, have extra curricular activities.. God, it's no wonder some of them snap!
I wish that we could throw away this last century plus two years, and start over!
I have no answers except parental involvement in the school situation as much as possible. And also, as Sunshine stated, keep up with the things happening in your neighborhood. If you hear about a child and a gun, DO something right away.
I think high school is a terrible thing to put most kids through. I hope I can home school my grandchildren, when they get to that age.
Sandra
White Wolf
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14 posted 03-18-2001 08:21 PM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

Marie- It needs to be publisized. It can be called a national epidemic or soon will be. You said something about copycats. Whereas that might be a problem it shouldn't be a place for major concern. Those copycats have the same anger and rage that those who have already done it. Copycats would just find another way of getting the task accomplished. A knife, a rope, a bomb, get a group of people together and start riots as you can see there are an infinite possibilities to accomplish this one goal. Plus without media coverage we, as a people, wouldn't have the means to know about this problem until it was way too late. Anyway that is my three or four cents on this subject.


The White Wolf
 
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