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Passions in Poetry

Seventy Times Seven?

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serenity blaze
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0 posted 12-21-2000 01:42 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I know that this is not something someone else can decide for me, but I sure would love to hear what my dear poet people think about this. When does forgiving, or does, forgiveness ever become stupidity? And I know the scriptural reference of Jesus stating that one should forgive "seventy times seven." (And there is one particular thorn in my side who just may be meeting his quota...) But Jesus also advised his apostles "to brush the sand from their feet," (regarding towns that simply would not "receive" them)

So...my question is...is there a point, do you think, where one should simply turn his back on another?
Nan
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1 posted 12-21-2000 06:46 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

There's a "not so Biblical" saying that goes something like... "First time shame on you - Second time shame on me"...

I don't think Jesus intended us to be masochists.  Learn from your experiences, and avoid putting yourself into the same predicament over and over again.

Forgiveness is virtuous, of course... Stupidity is not...
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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2 posted 12-21-2000 12:18 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

And forgiveness doesn't mean you have to like the person. 'Cast not your pearls before pigs, else they may trample them to the ground and tear you to shreds.' 'Be wise as serpents and innocent as lambs.'
Sunshine
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3 posted 12-21-2000 02:44 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Serenity, a little early Christmas present for you...

hope it helps you decide on your actions...

Hugs to you...Sunshine
http://www.motivational-quotes.com/forgiveness/



Karilea
If I whisper, will you listen?...
I would rather be silent and write, than speak loudly and be bound.
KRJ



bluebrdy65
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Gladys,


4 posted 12-21-2000 10:36 PM       View Profile for bluebrdy65   Email bluebrdy65   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bluebrdy65

I think you turn your back
when you are repeatedly damaged.
at some point you do whats best for you.
Dopey Dope
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5 posted 12-21-2000 11:14 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Turning backs on somebody.......i wish I could.
When does it become stupidity to forgive?
Well........when you're cheated on once, dumped twice, and constantly being verbally abused......for ex: "Oh javier you're a selfish, dumb ingrate with no sense of being in a relationship".
And you take it over and over again.....yea i think that's stupid.

But like I said......I wouldn't know how to turn my back on somebody.



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!

Nan
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6 posted 12-22-2000 06:54 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

There's also a distinct difference between "turning your back" and "letting go"...
serenity blaze
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7 posted 12-22-2000 07:46 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Nan? I can't tell the difference...
Michael
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8 posted 12-22-2000 09:08 AM       View Profile for Michael   Email Michael   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michael

Serenity,

There's a diffenence between forgiving and allowing someone to keep taking advantage of you.

I think someone already said it but the bible also says no to cast your pearls before swine.  If someone keeps taking advantage of your trust in one area, that is exactly what you are doing.

Not allowing one to keep taking advantage of you doen't constitute you turning your back on them either.  I can't help but think of a friend I have.  She is the mother of drug addict.  He is 30 years old and refuses to work.  He shows up at her house periodically, she allows him because he makes her feel guilty and says she doesn't love him if she refuses.  He then proceeds to rip her off of anything and everything in her house little by little.  It's an ongoing cycle.  

Personally, I think she needs to LOVE him enough to make him stand on his own for awhile.  Turning him away would not be turning her back - but helping him.  Maybe if he fell on his face once in awhile instead of landing in her lap all the time, he'd grow up and learn some responsibility.

That being said, I'll just reiterate my point now:

There's a diffenence between forgiving and allowing someone to keep taking advantage of you.


Michael



[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 12-22-2000).]
WhtDove
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9 posted 12-22-2000 10:00 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Serenity, first it does say that, you're right. It also says "live peaceably with all men IF it be possible!"

If they ask for forgiveness, then you should forgive them, because if you don't, it states that Jesus will not forgive us.

Forgiveness is NOT forgetting, but it more or less helps us to go on with life.

Sometimes that is very hard to do, but YOU can do all things through Christ who gives you strength.    

Hope it helps.

Michael has a point here my dear. You don't need to be walked on, and if they are repeating the same thing over and over again, you don't need to put up with it. It's not turning your back on someone, but like the story Michael stated above, is actually 'tough love.'

We can also forgive them, and move on with our life, "if one be offending, cut them off." Ya know where it states better to go into eternity with one eye...??  Well, it don't really mean your literal eye, but an offending party, if they are to bring the rest of the group (or known as body of Christ) down, then cast them away from you.

And not throwing your pearls before swine...God's word is the pearl (wisdom), and if you speak it to others and they care not to listen or heed, then you are throwing *so to speak* pearls or jewels before swine. Pretty much giving something valuable to someone who will not give a damn about it. That's when you shake the dust off your feet and move on.



[This message has been edited by WhtDove (edited 12-22-2000).]
doreen peri
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10 posted 12-22-2000 11:58 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

i say forgive them forever, for everything, no MATTER WHAT! if the lie to you, forgive them. if they steal from you forgive them. if they use up all your energy and resources and eat you out of house and home and trash your house, forgive them. if they do and say nasty things behind your back and then lie to you straight faced right to your face, forgive them. Yep. let them walk all over you like a door mat.

life is short.

forgive them even when they know what they do.

hehe

(sorry to make light of this, k, i just got a little carried away.... forgive me? *wink*)
serenity blaze
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11 posted 12-22-2000 12:30 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

doreen? you just gave me my first laugh out loud of the day!!! Gawd...come to the Mardi Gras, lady!!! Hey, what the hell, the boyfriend likes you already!!! (a thrill a minute, I tell you...)
Poet deVine
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12 posted 12-22-2000 11:00 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Forgive forever.....YOUR heart will be better for it.
doreen peri
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13 posted 12-23-2000 01:38 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

he does??? oh kewl!!
ok ...

what's the date?

hehe.... *g

before i come, though, ms. serenity, i just want you to know this...

i'll forgive you

honest

i will

hehe  

Irish Rose
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since 04-06-2000
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14 posted 12-23-2000 07:03 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

Yes, I'm familiar with this verse.  There are many people who do not accept our forgiveness and therefore, they do not change.  In that, we should never allow ourselves to be continually abused, mistreated or hurt physically, emotionally or mentally.  Forgiveness can and should take place, but we do not have to continue to allow the person who has hurt us to occupy the same place in our hearts.
  I don't know if this makes sense, I'm not a theologian, but I believe that if we do not forgive we hold bitterness and hurt ourselves, inside.  We let go, forgive, but also in the process do not allow the person to heap abuse upon us.  I know firsthand, that to be constantly belittled and spoken to critically can kill you inside.  

The right words can also heal and change a person's life.  You forgive, but you never forget, only God forgets, we cannot.

Forgive...but do not allow yourself to be a target for abuse.  God bless

"If you live to be a hundred, I want to live to be a hundred minus one day,
so I never have to live without you."

Winnie the Pooh


serenity blaze
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15 posted 12-23-2000 11:21 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I wanted to thank everybody for taking the time to read and ponder this one with me--
and not to worry...I always forgive...too lazy to stay angry! But this one has perplexed me for some time...as I seem to have distanced myself from some old friends of late--and I guess I felt guilty because I do not miss them. So...okay, I'm still not too sure...but I guess I will find out--grin.

And doreen?

"Yep. let them walk all over you like a door mat.
life is short."

I almost typed in reply? "oh. okay..." rofl...damn, but I need help!


doreen peri
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16 posted 12-24-2000 10:19 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

yeah, so do i.
i'm unstable.

so many years of the belittling and ridicule and berating and dismissal and daily  abandonment ..... eventually yield a pretty darn sarcastic, sardonic sense of humor, y'know? LOL... hey, but if i can't laugh, i might as well shoot myself in the head and put myself out of mysery... no, never mind.. i have a headache already and that might hurt

oh well...

merry christmas again.... is it over yet????

damn, i can't wait for it to be over.

sad, huh?

peace, love and happiness.
cheers!

Nan
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17 posted 12-26-2000 07:43 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Doreen - for someone who's unstable, you're pretty stable.. and don't be going to Mardi Gras without me either...
catalinamoon
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18 posted 12-27-2000 07:53 PM       View Profile for catalinamoon   Email catalinamoon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit catalinamoon's Home Page   View IP for catalinamoon

Serenity, what a question. I have to say that I think it is best to forgive most things and most people, if you can, if only because it takes away some of your own pain and anger. On the other hand, there has to be a limit, I have reached it with a few people.
I don't really know the difference between letting go and turning away either. I have a hard time with it, anyway, as everyone at Passions has probably noticed  
Happy holidays. Mardi Gras sounds awesome, can I come?
Sandra
serenity blaze
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19 posted 12-28-2000 07:10 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Sandra? you are more than welcome...and I am looking forward to it this year...it's soon to start too. Besides the actual day? Parades, parades, parades, and sometimes? We catch three a night...(quite a hustle but it CAN be done...grin...takes a little stamina and a LOT of tequila...grin)
kcsgrandma
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20 posted 12-29-2000 07:22 PM       View Profile for kcsgrandma   Email kcsgrandma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit kcsgrandma's Home Page   View IP for kcsgrandma

I just happened on this, and was interested in the replies because I have struggled with this question, too.  I think the best thing I have learned about it is that forgiveness is not for the other person's benefit, it is for you.  This hit me several years ago when I was telling myself I had a right to be angry at my (now ex-)husband.  I did, too, but the only one it was hurting was me.  He didn't care.  When I realized that, it was easier to let go of the anger.  Did I stay in situation and let him keep hurting me?  No.  Do I still get angry at him sometimes?  Sure do.  But letting go of the anger, whether or not that also means letting go of the person (and only you can decide when it's time to do that), can only help you.  Good luck figuring it all out.

To love another person is to see the face of God.
- Les Miserables

Marilyn
Elizabeth Santos
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21 posted 12-30-2000 12:16 AM       View Profile for Elizabeth Santos   Email Elizabeth Santos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Elizabeth Santos

Thank you all for this wonderful thread.
As a victim of too much abuse and recently violated beyond belief, I enjoyed reading each and every remark. Thanks, Nan, for putting things in perspective.
Liz
serenity blaze
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22 posted 07-10-2003 05:01 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I am STILL having problems with this one.

Or maybe?

I just suck at MATH.

Bec
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23 posted 07-10-2003 07:39 AM       View Profile for Bec   Email Bec   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bec

I honestly believe that there are times when you keep forgiving, but eventually you have to start thinking of yourself.

It gets too hard to keep getting back up after you've been knocked down, knowing that eventually it's going to happen again.

I'm not saying don't get up. I'm just saying that if you're not getting anywhere, maybe it has come to a time where you've done all you can, and you just need to leave it be.

Hope that makes sense.

Bec

"Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you."
-Winnie-the-Pooh

Cpat Hair
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24 posted 07-10-2003 07:56 AM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

There is a difference between forgiving and staying. One can forgive and not carry the hate or bitterness but still remove themselves from contact with the person.
Seperating yourself from the situation is not saying you do not forgive...it is saying I must not allow this to continue to happen, but for what has passed between us, I forgive.

 
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