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Passions in Poetry

What do you do, when it's not just you?

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serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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0 posted 10-19-2000 04:00 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Not quite sure how to word this---but, just suppose, see yourself, in a situation, and everybody is happy and content, with the exception of yourself.  Removing yourself from this situation would mean uprooting some otherwise happy, and seemingly thriving people.  How do you measure the worth of personal happiness to that of others?  To what extent should we pursue self-fulfillment?
Ted Reynolds
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since 12-15-1999
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1 posted 10-19-2000 06:48 AM       View Profile for Ted Reynolds   Email Ted Reynolds   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ted Reynolds

I've known people (starting with my mother) who would have been made so happy by exactly that situation they'd have done anything to keep it going, at their own expense.  And others (no names here) who'd tear down everybody else's happiness for a chance at their own.  Personally, I think a huge part of self-fulfillment (and life's happiness) is precisely learning to be joyful at others' happiness.  I'm working at it.
serenity blaze
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2 posted 10-19-2000 09:09 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ted, I thank you for your reply...but do you think it's selfish to have dreams of your own?  Do you know if your mother did?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic and I'm not kidding...If she's still around, would you ask her?  I've already asked mine, and she wasn't much help.

[This message has been edited by serenity (edited 10-19-2000).]
BSC
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3 posted 10-19-2000 09:27 AM       View Profile for BSC   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for BSC

Wow Serenity, I sure do understand your questions here.....Not that long ago I just couldn't understand what was wrong with me, my husband and kids were happy, all was fine with my friends, there was really nothing wrong, except, I wasn't happy.  And I felt that as long as everything was o.k. with everyone else, I should just accept it and forget it.  Unfortunately, I couldn't.  Still, I didn't want to upset anyone else,
so I just hung in and plugged along....til finally, I simply decided that no one else was going to make me happy, that that was up to me.  I still don't know what happened, or how, but now I look at things differently and I choose to be happy.  Sure it doesn't work all the time, and sometimes it's not easy, but I hated the way I felt before and now I can honestly say that life is much better.  No one around me ever knew things were not alright, now I talk to them about problems, or uneasiness....things I would never do before.  I didn't want to upset anyone before, I still don't, but I also don't want to live like I was, the wierd thing is, once I started talking about it, they actually listened, and the world is a much nicer place to be.  Sorry if I rambled on here, and I probably didn't answer the question, because I don't know how far I would go for self-fulfillment....I guess that in reality I would cave in to their wants and keep them happy rather than upset anything for myself.  But, that's just me.  Bonnie
Sunshine
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4 posted 10-19-2000 04:30 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Well, now, is it in the water, or is this question on more than one mind...?

For now it's a matter of weighing the pros and cons...

but Bonnie, I've been in your shoes...

sometimes it's called "depression" and other times it's called "life" and we make with it what we will...

but Serenity, I'm glad to see this here, for now I do not feel so alone...

Karilea
If I whisper, will you listen?...KRJ


RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
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5 posted 10-19-2000 05:02 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

What a loaded question.. So here's my answer..

I'm a really open person, my happiness shines in my eyes and any sadness dulls them.  I'm as open as the proverbial book....if would hurt me to cause pain to someone else but I have done it although I haven't liked myself afterwards because I always expect that I should act slightly better than whoever it was that caused me to feel like that but we're human....

As to your own happiness and whether to put you or someone else first or not...I think I know when someone is not being wholly truthful with me no matter how much they may say differently, it's a feeling and I can't  usually let it rest until I know for sure and it usually hurts in the end far more than it could or should have done if everyone would just be honest about a situation.... i.e.  I'm shortly to be divorced again, now I could have stayed married, he wanted to and still does but the respect has gone and with it the trust and for me that also means the love as well...Now I don't know what waits for me in this big world but I know I can't pretend and ultimately he deserves more than my pretending...we all say when we love and care for somemone that even the tiniest bit of love back will make us happy or we're even happy without the love "just please don't go"...but eventually more is needed and eventually unhappiness would creep in...I can't personally do that to me or him or indeed anyone else...I have to give 100% of me, and I need 100% back as well ...it's just the way I am and I'm the same in every area of my life..

How do you know if it is the right decision?  Well for me I've never really known whether it's 100% right and I've made one or two decisions that affected the whole of my life and I still wonder about them but deep down something inside of me forces me on and I can only explain it by saying it's like having my heart and mind in total agreement...

I don't know what's brought the question on whether it's hypothetical or not but my belief is that you know, deep inside whether you can live and be happy and give quality happiness to others or whether you can't, but only you can know the answer...I often like to brain storm a situation becuase often someone will say something that I haven't thought of...tried that?

Either way, hope you resolve it..

Take care

HUGS

doreen peri
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since 05-25-99
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6 posted 10-19-2000 06:02 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

i'm of the opinion that people are very resilient. if you aren't "happy", then it's very likely that your unhappiness is being felt by those who love you who appear to be happy -- but i'd venture to guess that if you were in a situation which made you happier, they, too, will be happier.

happy is a relative term... lol.. i don't mean that it depends on if your relatives are  happy.. hehe... i mean, to some people, "content" is "happy", to others, they aren't "content" unless they have a relative frequency of "elation"... and still to others "elation" on a frequent bases can make them "discontent" because it's a powerful emotion which can disrupt "contentment"...

does any of that make sense to anybody? well, it does to me...

bottom line is, IMHO, if you think that you aren't "happy" , using whatever definition you have set forth as your standard for happiness, then, your emotions are reflected in your daily life, and the people around you feel it.... and if they love you, they are negatively effected by your "unhappiness"

I guess it should be clear by now, why i'm putting all these words in quotes. because they are subjective emotions and not the same for everyone... we all have different standards about what in our life "satisfies" us.

So, my conclusion, given my premise, is that if you make a change which will effect you in a positive way as far as how satisfied you are with your life, most likely, it will positively effect those who love you.... eventually. now, there's greys in here, too. i mean, children, for instance, are dependant upon parents, so if you make a move that's selfish in regards to your "happiness", and leaves your children in a worse case scenario than being effected by your "unhappiness", well, that's not a good choice.

but, selfishness toward an end which negatively effects others, especially those you love, can't give you happiness anyway.

so, it's a very good question you've posed, serenity, but i would say that every individual situation is unique and all options must be explored.... especially the possible effects on others, should you make a major life changing decision...

if you look back on your life, i'm sure you'll find that there were times you made decisions which at first seemed negative in regards to how others would react, in order to move forward in your life toward your goal of "happiness", but people are resilient, and if you made those choices for the RIGHT reasons (which only you can know), then, eventually EVERYBODY was happier after YOU got happier, right?

ok, i've rambled... 'scuse me *s

thanks for posing this question - it's certainly an important one and one we all deal with at one time or another in our lives (or is that several dozen??)  

Lo que eres hable tan fuerte que no oigo lo que tu dices-
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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7 posted 10-19-2000 10:19 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I thank you all---and I understand now that this is not a question with an absolute answer...life is a gumbo, with no definite recipe.

But thanks to all, and doreen? HUGS.
Christopher
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Purgatorial Incarceration


8 posted 10-20-2000 12:41 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

you...cope.  

Read my Words.
Read my Face.
Don't just look at either.
-C

Poet deVine
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9 posted 10-22-2000 05:18 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

There are among us, certain people who will never cause anyone pain. They stand aside to make way for new love, knowing full well that in doing so, THEY will be in pain. There are those that live a life unfulfilled because to move on would cause someone else to hurt profoundly. And there are those who would turn away from love because it would cause the other person pain in the end. Those people live their lives in a state of 'gray-happy'. Never fulfilled. Never really happy. Never really knowing the joy of love.

They survive.

They cope.

They smile.

And in the end, cry out against their own unselfishness.

Tormented by the fact that they couldn't do it any other way.

I survive.
I cope.
I smile.
I cry out........
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


10 posted 10-22-2000 05:54 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

yes, sharon... and those people you describe are the finest examples we have of unconditional love.... to have that much love and giving in their hearts for someone to give that abundantly... those people you describe are truly beautiful and to be admired as examples of what it really means to love

"grey-happy" is a very good term... and just reading what you have written has brought tears to my eyes
RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
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11 posted 10-22-2000 10:10 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Sharon: You cry so quietly and I HUG you gently....

You said much here my friend, wish I could quiet *my* anger, my loss to a quiet whisper because then my words may say the same but I think they do if one takes the time to see beneath the hurt and anguish,  except yours are kind, the better way.... wish I could take that silent breath or two before I speak...

HUSG

ps: I flipping well hate IE ...had to go to NS to edit...*sigh*...nothing worse than getting your words wrong, second time round @ 03.10am....least I rembembered who I was..




[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 10-22-2000).]
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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12 posted 10-23-2000 01:28 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I can't tell you what it means to me to know that I'm understood.  I thank you so much, sharon.  and doreen, and all of you...it's not so bad with ya'll around.
Elizabeth Cor
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since 10-13-2000
Posts 906
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13 posted 11-21-2000 03:11 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth Cor   Email Elizabeth Cor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Elizabeth Cor

After taking everyone else's suggestions into consideration (which were amazing, btw), I'm offering my bit of individual opinion:

This is the selfish argument.

The only person you can rely on to make you happy, is yourself. I just “uprooted” someone’s life and left them very afflicted to pursue my own satisfaction. I know that now, they are in a state of distress, but in the end this is a better outcome because I didn’t let myself sit in this state and become more despondent, which would have affected the person in much more tragic ways. I feel that the tow of us have learned from this experience: both from the lingering, and from the leaving. I’ve explained my personal feelings, and that’s the most I can do for understanding. I know that they will recover, and be a better person because of it. And I know that I will be as well.

Of course, the above is just an example of a singular situation. How I would try to solve your personal predicament…
In the end, the resolution should be based upon your reaction your to decisions:
If you “uproot” yourself, will your happiness be drowned by guilt?
If you stay, will the nobility of your resolve be enough to counter the lack of fulfillment?
You have to determine which is more pressing…and if your happiness is contingent on the responses of others.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


14 posted 11-21-2000 08:43 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Thank you much EC--I think you, and sharon, and doreen, have a good grasp on what I'm going through....so hugs to you...and thank you much!!! Methinks you are wise beyond your years...forgive the cliche' but such is my life...lol...
Dopey Dope
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15 posted 11-24-2000 02:29 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Hmmmm............i don't know. I sure as hell wouldnt wanna make others sad. I think id just escape and find my happiness else where. A little sanctuary



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!

Tara Simms
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since 08-12-99
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Honea Path, SC USA


16 posted 11-28-2000 10:06 PM       View Profile for Tara Simms   Email Tara Simms   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Tara Simms's Home Page   View IP for Tara Simms

It sounds like a tough situation that you are facing right now, Serenity.  I've always believed that we make our own happiness. I am not responsible for anyone's but my own.  Is this selfish?  Perhaps.  But happiness comes from within.  And if you can't find it in your current situation, you owe it to yourself to find out why. What is lacking in your life?  What can you do to get it?

I was faced with something similiar over two years ago when I realized my marriage was over.  I felt like I was dying a thousand deaths a day.  I couldn't go on that way.  I made one of the best decisions of my life at that point...I left.  Yes, it involved uprooting my children and shaking things up within our extended families.  Was anyone surprised?  Not really.  Most wondered why it took so long.  I made the right choice for me and my children.  I am the happiest I've ever been.  I've returned to my writing, discovered a career that I excel at, have given my children more stability in the last two years than they have ever known and, perhaps most importantly, have found the kind of love I've always dreamed of.  

I guess I'm making the assumption that your question is related to marriage/divorce and its effect on children.  That's what this response is really intended for.  If your situation is something different, maybe you'll be able to get something useful out of my response, maybe not.  I've learned that children are happy when the parents are happy.  My exhusband and I get along better now than we ever did when we were together.  The tension, fighting, stress is gone from our relationship.  We've been able to maintain a close friendship, which benefits our children much more than an anger filled marriage ever could.  
 
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