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Passions in Poetry

making a mistake

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Paula Finn
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since 06-17-2000
Posts 5525
missouri


0 posted 09-05-2000 11:53 AM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

When is a mistake unforgivable? When is it worth throwing away love for? How bad does it have to be before you can say...I cannot forgive what you did?
sweetcollege_girl
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since 12-03-1999
Posts 932
just about where I want to be


1 posted 09-05-2000 12:23 PM       View Profile for sweetcollege_girl   Email sweetcollege_girl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sweetcollege_girl

Well, as a christian, I believe a mistake can never be bad enough to never forgive the person who did it...everything can be talked out...just my opinion  

~*~SCG~*~

"Poetry is what makes the invisible appear"-Author Unknown
Poet deVine
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2 posted 09-05-2000 07:05 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think everyone deserves a second chance. But it depends on what YOU consider unforgiveable...what YOU can forgive and forget. I would forgive infidelity only once. I would not forgive abuse. I would forgive insensitivity once.
Trew
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since 06-10-2000
Posts 371
Ottawa, Canada


3 posted 09-05-2000 11:02 PM       View Profile for Trew   Email Trew   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trew

Hmm... complicated one for me.  Forgiving has always been synonymous with understanding, in my mind.  One may be able to understand and, thus, forgive another.  However, to live with what the other has done may prove to be impossible.  Others would argue that 'forgive and forget' are one in the same.
I guess it ultimately comes down to your individual conscience and moral line.  If someone has crossed it, the foundation of the relationship is destroyed.
EagleOne
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since 03-07-2000
Posts 2858
Between a laugh and a tear...


4 posted 09-06-2000 04:27 AM       View Profile for EagleOne   Email EagleOne   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for EagleOne

Gee Paula! Do you have an easier question?

Seriously though, an excellent question, one to which there is no easy or difinative answer. I think Poet deVine stikes very close to the mark with the word YOU. It has to be an individual thing, everyone is different and has differing perceptions and opinions, particularly when you start to talk about right and wrong, and emotions. Whatever works for you is right for you, in my humble opinion. Take care!

"The heart and soul have no illusion of boundries when friendship is the quest"
~ My Angel.
X Angel
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since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


5 posted 09-06-2000 02:14 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

I made mistakes a few years ago that betrayed a trust my husband had for me. We had separated, and even knowing all about it he begged me to come back...now almost 2 years later, he has left me and demanded a divorce for what happened 2 years ago. Can anyone explain that one?
He says he can never forgive me, so tell me, what was the whole getting back together thing about then?
From one very confused soon to be ex-wife
~Heather

PS 1 Corinthians 13 says love bears all, believes all, hopes all, forgives all.
I think that says it all really....
Sometimes you can't live with life-situations etc, but forgiving someone for their hurts to you is the key to personal emotional healing...

[This message has been edited by X Angel (edited 09-06-2000).]
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


6 posted 09-06-2000 04:51 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

well X Angel -- it's about him losing any grounds he had for divorce -- because he reconciled... you can't unreconcile a reconcilliation...

but aside from the legal aspects... it's about human nature -- the more he thought about it the madder he got... nothing got worse about it... just him brooding on it..

Paula -- in response to the topic question -- I think forgiveness always comes with a re-negotiation of roles.... so -- I think you can always forgive -- but you don't have to put yourself back in the same role you were in before... hope that makes sense
Elizabeth
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7 posted 09-06-2000 05:16 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

You can forgive someone and still not want to have anything to do with them. I remember one of the customer-service managers at my old job--he is a good example of this. He happened to be dating a friend of mine and considered himself to be my friend as well. He obviously changed his mind about that however, and to make a long story short, he began to lie to me about a real friend of mine and basically made work into a hellhole (not that it was great to begin with, but I ramble). A few months after all this happened, I was thinking aobut what would happen if we did begin to speak to each other again (as I am still friends with his girlfriend, it could happen). I realized that I didn't want to have much to do with him. While I have gotten over what he did to me, I still don't want to form a close friendship with him.

You get what I'm saying? I guess the thing is, there are consequences to your actions and you have to live with them. One person can be wronged and they will forgive those who wronged them, end of story. With others, it's different. The hurts go more deeply.

Elizabeth
Erin
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since 06-15-2000
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~Chicago~


8 posted 09-07-2000 01:14 AM       View Profile for Erin   Email Erin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Erin

I am a very stubborn person. Me and my best friend stopped talking over a guy. I decided to forgive her 2 months later and him 4 months later. I also am christian, but I have to disagree with what SCG said. There are limits to how far you could go. Lets say I was walking down the street and some guy driving drunk hit me and paralyzed me. I dont think even a lifetime would help me forgive this person because this person decided to go out and drink enough to the point where he was so intoxicated that he couldnt drive.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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9 posted 09-07-2000 02:33 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

This is a question that only the heart decides...You can intellectually decide to forgive, but true forgiveness requires some healing of the original hurt.  In my experience, that is not something that I can intellectually control.  But...I have also found, much to my surprise, that comes a day, when you understand, from the retrospect point of view, why events occurred as they did.  And that is a happy day.  Hugs, and I said it before, and I'll say it again, we are all just fumbling around in the dark in search of a match to light the candle.
Sunshine
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Listening to every heart


10 posted 09-07-2000 07:40 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Merriam-Webster's definition:

1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for b : to grant relief from payment of 2 : to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : PARDON                      

[I have to put in the above to keep myself from rambling!]

Probably one of the most un-natural human function or ability to adopt. Human nature being what it is, people talk it up, but ask anyone whom they ever forgave. As one of the other folks here said, it depends on what it is.

What was the mistake?  A lie?  Theft?  Murder?  Infidelity?  

Paula, in this given quandry, apparently "love" and the transgression thereof is the problem.  Forgiving would be the easier part of this IF you can "forget" what occurred.  Chances are, that will be the bigger nemesis. And, there are SO many variables. All of the questions are likely to be asked, and while the answers are being given, the underlying question of "is this person still lying to me?" comes up, because chances are, lies were being dealt right and left for whatever the reason was that this person is now asking forgiveness.

If you have reason to grant forgiveness, i.e., you still love this person, then I would caution you to also simultaneously get counseling.

And for heaven's sake, don't be called for jury duty during this time!


Karilea
When you want to be loved, look within...KRJ

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


11 posted 09-07-2000 10:55 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Someone who was once very close to me was raped by three men.  She was a second degree blackbelt -- so in order to subdue her there was a considerable struggle in which she was slashed with a knife from her lower abdomen down her inner thigh to just above her knee.

As are all rapes this was an act of violence and not sex... and it was done specifically to teach her a lesson -- the movie 'The General's Daughter' was a very similar situation to hers -- with the exception that she prosecuted and convicted her attackers.

She found no peace in prosecuting them and sending them to prison.  Revenge was a bitter dish she found.  Only after a year into their sentence was she able to find a way to move on and let the inner scars heal -- she went to the prison and visited all three men... she talked to them, forgave them for what they had done... they all cried together and hugged... it was the beginning of restoration for her..

she would say that to not forgive is to continue to allow the transgressor to hurt us..

having said all that -- I continue to not be able to forgive the universe for taking her away.. but, that's my problem..

peace
Paula Finn
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since 06-17-2000
Posts 5525
missouri


12 posted 09-07-2000 02:32 PM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

I want to thank all of you who have responded to my questions...and to clear up any misunderstanding...it was I who made the mistake.
I am of the belief that forgiving is a fairly easy thing to do...its the forgetting that comes hard. How do you ever truly forget a hurt inflicted on you? I know from past experience that some hurts live on forever...while others fade. If you love someone enough that you are willing to sacrifice anything...pride...family...whatever is important to you...then you have to find a way to lock the hurt away. maybe you NEVER forget...but you deal with it. You talk, you share and you hope like hell theat the person you hurt is strong enough to understand and give you another chance.
JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


13 posted 09-08-2000 09:59 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

For me, forgiveness is limitless.  While I understand PdV's view on forgiveness ONCE (for infidelity) I would make a distinction between forgiveness and tolerance.

I will forgive (and forget! Forgiveness is not true if the deed is held onto...) anyway... I will forgive always, as many times as needed, but I will not tolerate further misdeeds... is that hypocritical?  I don't think so.  If my wife was unfaithful, could I or would I forgive her?  Absolutely.  If she did it again it would bring about the same forgiveness, yet lead me to a point of removing myself from the need for that forgiveness.  Same goes for abuse, theft, etc...

X Angel - My best thoughts to you.


Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

"Everything is your own damn fault, if you are any good." E. Hemmingway
Honeybee
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since 12-26-1999
Posts 5512
Ontario, CANADA


14 posted 09-08-2000 10:57 AM       View Profile for Honeybee   Email Honeybee   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Honeybee



At first this seemed like an easy question for me to answer, but, after thinking about it, it isn't so easy afterall.  Well...I do believe that people deserve second chances.
However, there are some things that are just so attrocious and horrible that cannot be forgiven right away or even at all in a lifetime.  I have had some bad things done to me and some I forgave instantly and no longer hold the pain within, but some I still hold onto the pain that they caused me. It's easy for the brain to say "okay I will forgive this person," but, for the heart to do the same is a different story, I mean how does the heart forget something so hurtful?  I think that if the person who has hurt you is sincerely remorseful then it is of course much easier to forgive.  However, if the person shows no remorse and continues to be a vexation to your soul, then how can you forgive such a person?  My opinion on forgiveness if not necessarily forgiving that person to set them free from guilt, but rather fogiving them to set yourself free.  Just because you forgive does not mean that you will ever have a relationship with that person again.  I think that when a person can forgive it is beautiful to do, I am sure that God wants all humans to be compassionate, understanding and turn the other cheek.  But, I completely understand if a mother cannot forgive a rapist who tortured, raped and murdered her daughter.  Some things are just so horrendous to forgive.  I'm the type of person who can forgive, but can never forget, that doesn't make me a bad person at all, my heart is just sensitive and can never forget anything.  Abuse of any kind if totally unforgiveable, adultery is unforgiveable, murder is unforgiveable. I am by no means perfect at all and yes, I have made mistakes and hurt some people, we all hurt others in some way during our lives - whether intentionally or unintentionally, and that is why I try to forgive and set an example of this so that others will see that I am kind and forgive me if I hurt them.  This way I can also forgive myself for the really stupid things that I have done.  

Can you forgive me for rambling a lot? LOL  

Take care,
Melissa Honeybee


The beauty of poetry gives my soul wings to fly free within dreams


Denise
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15 posted 09-09-2000 01:06 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

For some things it seems forgiveness is humanly impossible...and it is. I suppose we all have our own ideas of what constitutes an unforgiveable act against us. It is easier to forgive someone that we love and know that that person really does love us in return. The acts committed against us by those who don't love us, and/or for whom we have no 'natural' affection, or when such acts are directed against those that we love dearly, I think these are the acts impossible in our own human strength to forgive. After struggling for 2 1/2 years with trying to forgive someone who hurt my family, I have come to realize that I can't do it. It's not in me. I guess you could say that I had reached the end of myself. Not a bad place to finally come to. Perhaps if I had been able to forgive this person in my own strength, I could have become self-righteous about it. That will never happen. The burden of Christ's command to forgive 'seventy times seven' weighed heavily upon my heart. When recently reading a book on the life of Corrie ten Boom, a great release was given to me. When she was confronted with forgiving her jailers during the Nazi occupation and Hollocaust, she realized that she couldn't do it. She realized that Christ's command to forgive was not a command for her to summon up something impossible from within her being. She had a revelation that the love and forgiveness that was commanded was not 'her' love and forgiveness...which was impossible...but simply to allow herself to be the vehicle through which His love and forgiveness could flow. What a revelation! I am still basking in the afterglow of this in terms of my own personal situation. I may not be able to find forgiveness for this person...but I can certainly let Him channel His love and forgiveness for that person through me!  Wow! Let me tell you...life again seems good! Praise His name for doing for me what I could never do in my own strength! Come to think of it...that is what He is all about, isn't it?  

Denise
RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


16 posted 09-10-2000 05:39 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Paula: Some absolutely first class replies here and to add my 0.02 worth..

As you say forgiveness is perhaps the easy part, forgetting is the hardest but I'm a true believer that if you can talk about something, you can either resolve it or at least reach an understanding, even if it is to disagree but for me, talking about painful subject very often makes you closer in the long run but much depends if both parties are willing to discuss it...

I hope it works out for you..

HUSG

"If you always do what you've always done
You'll always be where you are right now."

Author Unknown
 
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