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Passions in Poetry

Abortion....how it makes you feel

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Jeffrey Carter
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0 posted 08-12-2000 10:14 PM       View Profile for Jeffrey Carter   Email Jeffrey Carter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jeffrey Carter

Hi, I know that this is a very unwinnable debate no matter what your point of view is. Too many people have their opinion and nothing anyone can say or do will change their minds. I was just wondering what everyone's take on this very controversial issue.

Go ahead, yell at me for bringing it up. It is ok
serenity blaze
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1 posted 08-12-2000 11:31 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

My take on this...hmmm....you cannot legislate morality...abortion?  Ever since women discovered which herbs of the field would promote spontaneous abortion...it has been done...and it will continue, with or without permission...and now of course, there are many legal entanglements besides the moral implications.  There are no easy answers to abortion.  Ask any woman who has had one.
X Angel
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2 posted 08-13-2000 11:00 AM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

Well this is so weird...today is my son's 12th birthday, and when I was 3 month's pregnant with him I had an appointment for an abortion. I was an unwed mom to be of 18, scared to death and working for minimum wage..

Well today the child whose abortion appointment I missed...turns 12. WOW! It seems like yesterday, and it seems like another lifetime ago.

I was parked outside the clinic for about 20 minutes trying to get up the nerve to go in...I who had gotten an A- on my term paper just the year before on what the abortion process does to a baby(the saline solution burning the babies skin off, the suction tearning it apart....all while it is still alive). And as I sat there thinking over all I had to gain and lose when I walked into the clinic, I started to cry, and realized that in my heart for the rest of my life I would feel like I had murdered my child.

I couldn't do it, I had to face the facts, tell my parents and decide whether I would keep the baby, or put it up for adoption. Well I finally told my parents, and the guy I was engaged to talked me into coming back to him, I had left when I found out I was pregnant. We ended up married a year ahead of time, no insurance, but we made it.

We did it, I kept that baby, and you know what??? I told that little boy/man the story of his coming into this world and he feels so special, and you know why? Because I CHOSE him, he is truly my child, my perfect son, I gave him life in more than one way.

And today on his 12th birthday, I reflect back over the years, realizing that it hasn't all been easy, I gave up alot for him, like college and being childless for awhile after high school. But he is beautiful person, inside and out, very caring, very loving....he will grow up to be something awesome. I am raising him to be a good daddy and a wonderful husband....just to be the special person I know him to be...

And on today, his 12th birthday I just want to say I love you Cyrus and I think you are the most wonderful 12 year old this world has ever had, I am so glad I chose you baby. You are truly my gift from God.
*hugs* and *kisses*
~Mom




[This message has been edited by X Angel (edited 08-13-2000).]
redwriter1
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3 posted 08-13-2000 11:55 AM       View Profile for redwriter1   Email redwriter1   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for redwriter1

My view is woman have a right to choose, the only problem is they are supposed to "choose" to cross their legs, not "choose" to erase a human life.

Kay-lynn
**A dream is a wish your heart makes :)

Jamie
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4 posted 08-13-2000 12:07 PM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

How I feel about it matters little, unless I am the father,,,, ultimately it is how the mother feels that matters...that said, I agree with redwriter
serenity blaze
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5 posted 08-13-2000 01:02 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

just one more thing--I was once asked by a friend "what would you do?"  regarding terminating her pregnancy...(she felt she was too old to be a mom)  all I could think to tell her was that either way, she would live with her decision for the rest of her life, and that it was up to her which result would be the easier to cope with...she named her baby Autumn Rose...smiles to all.
RainbowGirl
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6 posted 08-13-2000 05:45 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Good question....personally, I could never have one and still remember the shock I felt when my doctor suggested it because of the circumstances surrounding my daughter's conception...I guess he just thought I was yet another irresponsible person at the beginning and was quite blase about it...I still remember crying all the way home, it was bad enough to find out I was 5 months pregnant but to think some doctor who didn't even know me, could suggest an abortion like one suggests having a cup of tea totally floored me...

Having said that I do have friends that have been in this situation, some have seemingly made the decision without thought but inside were gutted and so terribly scared they simply refused to allow themselves to think about the consequences....others have painstakingly gone over it time and time again and hopped out of the hospital bed at the last minute...  

I guess it all comes down to what you can cope with and how you will manage, not everyone has the strength nor the support of parental guidance or indeed the father's support and if they don't have the inner strength...I think they made the right decision because no child should have to live with being unwanted...

Ooops, thinks I rambled but I adore children...  

HUGS

Angel: and many more happy birthday's to your son..   It's good to see so much love in a post..

[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 08-13-2000).]
Paula Finn
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7 posted 08-13-2000 07:37 PM       View Profile for Paula Finn   Email Paula Finn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paula Finn

Abortion...yes Jeff a touchy subject but one I have NEVER had any doubts about. A child is a child at conception. There may be valid reasons for abortion....rape  and incest for example...but even then thats an innocent child. I realize that the woman or girl in those cases could be traumatized by the act but still a child is a child is a child...and once concieved every child has the right to live
Rosebud1229
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8 posted 08-13-2000 07:46 PM       View Profile for Rosebud1229   Email Rosebud1229   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Rosebud1229

to me this is a life no matter what you can say. Be it from a rape or just a mistake or whatever the issue, do we have the right to make that decision? I fear that it's just to easy to end a life these days. The partial abortions that are performed on not just the beginning of life but when the baby has developed. I pray for these babies that have no choice to come into the world.
RainbowGirl
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9 posted 08-13-2000 08:03 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

I do hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but.....oh my...

Let me first say I absolutely adore children, 100% over and over again, wow, just saying that and I felt my heart expand...

but...it's not good saying that a child deserves to live because a child lives to become what we give them or are able to give them...some live in such absolute horror and some live to know love as it should be and to be cherished...but that has everything to do with the parenting....I could never persuade anyone, much as I hate the loss of a child, to give birth when they feel empty, when they a child as being a hamper on their life because it's the child that will suffer and surely we all see so much of that that we could never wish a child to lead a life of misery...

Yes, some do find such incredible strength and against all the odds become those one in a million totally together human beings, but I don't think it is all about life really, it's about what you can give, what you have to give and whether you can nourish and support in every single way, the life that you give birth too...

Hope I haven't tread on any toes, don't mean too, I guess I just saw too many sad little faces and all looking to be loved or asking why they weren't loved...it kinda of sticks with you..

But my heart goes out to every single person, whether mother or father, that finds themselves with this heartbreaking decision to make..


What I mean and I'm not picking on Paula but her last sentence sang to me....it's not that a child has a right to live but that ALL children have a right to be loved and to me, that isn't the same thing...again, that's not targeting Paula, just the way I think, hope you don't mind me using your words Paula, I know what you mean but...ultimately, I guess we mostly have love to give...
Big HUGS

[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 08-13-2000).]
Elizabeth
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10 posted 08-13-2000 10:54 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

First of all, let me state my view. Abortion is wrong, period. It does't matter if the child was conceived out of incest or rape. Is it the child's fault? No. The pregnant girl doesn't even have to keep the baby and raise it on her own. There's foster care or adoption.

I know that it would be really tough for a girl to carry around a reminder of the rape or incest that happened to her, BUT why should she think of the baby that way? Just because someone else did something horribly wrong, that shouldn't give a girl the right to do another wrong. Once a child is conceived, it has the same rights as every other human being. Why should it make a difference whether the mother is still carrying the child or not? We were all carried inside our mothers' wombs at one time. We were all unborn. What if one of our mothers decided to abort one of us, because we were the product of a rape, or just because she didn't want to have a baby?

Elizabeth


Why ME???
RainbowGirl
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11 posted 08-13-2000 11:40 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Elizabeth:  I think you may ask yourself if you have the right to ask the question - unless you have been in that position...

You may be or may have been and if that is the case, I give you my heart and all my love....

If you haven't: let me say, when your daughter asks of her parentage, you have to make up your mind about what to say: do you say, you were the product of rape, a violent, horrendous rape that left images hard to imagine unless you have been there or do you pretend that your child was born of love and if so, where is the father?

Yes, I say father, because women don't tend to rape, we don't have the strength for that, neither do we have the ability to take, what isn't ours to have, freely....

Believe me to carry a child when the conception is that of rape...holds many misconceptions...you might dearly love the child but what if the child resembles the father?

What if the child asks of its parentage?

Believe me, the horrors of memories can be so distinct they belie belief and yet, you love this utterly, vulnerable, child, that never asked to be born, ut....it is up yo you to give this child all the love, the untold sacrifices and the memory.that your child was born of love because to do otherwise would be to inprison your child forever, without love.....

I hope to god you have never known what I am talking about and if you have then I wish you the lifetime of peace that deserves to be yours, you earnt it lady, you well and truly earnt it!

Because to be raped, is to take the very life that we, are saying deserves to live, but it's love that needs to live, it's love we need to show, encouragement, support..etc etc...

You know in many way I am thankful my daughter died before I had to answer who her father was or how violently she was conceived...

If you have never been in this position, spare a little thought, for all the love you give, against the memories, spare a thought for how the life of your child was given, hopefully with much love, much tenderness and much looking forward to the life of a child - created with love - between two people!

Big HUSG

[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 08-13-2000).]
Jeffrey Carter
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12 posted 08-14-2000 01:35 AM       View Profile for Jeffrey Carter   Email Jeffrey Carter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jeffrey Carter

Hey!!! Where's Christopher when you need him?  


See, Chris man, this is how it's done

Sorry guys.....just thought I'd lighten things up a bit. Seems to be getting just a little heated in here.
Nan
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13 posted 08-14-2000 07:59 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Perhaps each and every instance that such a decision must be made should be assessed in its own light - with consideration for the individual circumstances...

Every situation is different - Modern technology now allows us to know if a fetus will be born with brain damage... I would never presume to make a judgment on a couple who faced with such a situation.. or on a woman who's in a position to make a life-defining decision - whichever choice she makes... It is she who must live with it.
StarrGazer
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14 posted 08-14-2000 10:23 PM       View Profile for StarrGazer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for StarrGazer

I think that each person is entitled to make their own decision, each person has a different  set of circumstances before them and it is up to them to figure out which one will best suit their life.  I know people both strongly for and against abortion and they all have  perfectly logical reasons for feeling that way. It's merely a matter of choice and opinion... What is right for one person may be totally wrong for another.  It's not our job to judge people based on their decisions so until I am in a situation as such I'd rather reserve my right not to chose one way or the other.
epoet
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15 posted 08-15-2000 08:08 PM       View Profile for epoet   Email epoet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for epoet

Here I go tossing my two cents worth into this debate.  Abortion is a very touchy topic to talk about so please don't get angry at me if you don't agree with what I'm going to say.  Abortion is so very wrong, if we started killing the young as a means of birth control like some people out there do.  In cases of rape and incest however, I feel that it's ok because women shouldn't have to bear the fruits of a violent sadistic crime.  I personally have been in situations where I was influential to someone who had that choice to make and I wrote a poem about it.  I hope that we as a society can come to some sort of agreement about abortion and how to control the dangers and wrongs of abortion.

P. J. Kotrch
carpe diem
A soul once touched is a soul once blessed by love


Jeffrey Carter
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16 posted 08-15-2000 09:32 PM       View Profile for Jeffrey Carter   Email Jeffrey Carter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jeffrey Carter

Ok....guess it is time for my opinion here

I myself see abortion as being wrong also, however I feel compelled to agree with so many of you who have stated that in cases of rape and incest that you could understand the reasoning behind the decision to have an abortion , but....does that make it right?

I don't think it does. So many people today want children so badly that they are willing to adopt these babies.

Anyway that is my opinion thanks for participating
juliet_2u
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17 posted 08-16-2000 10:31 AM       View Profile for juliet_2u   Email juliet_2u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for juliet_2u

This is a painful subject for me. I adore children and can't bear to hear of them being hurt in any manner. It seems when it comes to abortion the only ones that don't have a voice are the precious unborn babies that are so carelessly thrown away like they're not even human. There are so many familes out there begging to adopt babies that I just don't understand the senseless killing of them. Will one day we decide that if we're not financially able to care for our 2 and 3 year olds, it's ok to have them silently put to sleep? There is no difference to me. A human life is a human life no matter the age unborn or not. As you can see this is a very emotional issue for me, so enough said on my part.
Jeffrey Carter
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18 posted 08-16-2000 05:50 PM       View Profile for Jeffrey Carter   Email Jeffrey Carter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jeffrey Carter

BRAVO, BRAVO

Juls......Perfectly said  
StarrGazer
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19 posted 08-16-2000 11:13 PM       View Profile for StarrGazer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for StarrGazer

When I first saw this as a topic of discussion, I kind of groaned envisioning the full blown war that has kind of become the norm for this controversial subject.  I'm very happy and relieved to see this did not happen and that we are all able to discuss topics like this, state our opinion and not have world war 3 in here... So, I just wanted to give everyone a round of applause for contributig to such a controversial topic and  not getting lost in an emotional war. Things like this discussion, make me all the more glad that I found this wonderful place in cyberspace  

Shan
monique
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20 posted 08-19-2000 04:24 PM       View Profile for monique   Email monique   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for monique

Abortion makes me wish my mom would have been succesful at killing me with knitting needdle.
She abandon us, my younger sister and i when we were 3 and 1 and at 14 i found her and she had started another family (2 girls and one boy) she was friendly to the point of telling me the truth that she tried to kill me in her stomach and she did not have any feeling for  my sister and i.
She was young so i understand i do not hate her for that.
My sister had one family and i had 11 sets of family i always felt like a burden in this world.

I see too many unhappy people on this earth,
retarded, mentally ill, abuse children sexually, violence on children and people in institution and let's not forget the children that become violent, killer themselves.

I do not see the need to create anymore unwanted pregnancy, if you can take care of your child and have love for him good for both of you.
Some people have great testimony how they are happy that they did not have the abortion because it worked out in their best interest.

Sterilization needs to be more easily available for people that are not fit to have children. We have this laissez-faire attitude of just letting people having babies and then who is responsible to take care of them who who who????????????
I see some foster family that are abusing children too and there is a shortage of foster family.

To many children are born just to be abuse all their lives.

My sister-in-law worked in children's home and one worker was sexually abusing them we found out many years later and i met one of those children as an adult and he is a messed up person.

I have friends that were missionnary in other country were the children are abandon
and it makes you wonder why do we even exist.
To send some money every month to feed the poor.

I have 3 handicap children on diapers (25, 17, 7) and i take care of my 57 years old
brother-in-law who is schizophrenic and he wishes he would not be in existence, he spent the majority of his life in institution since he was a teenager.

I had an abortion and i felt like i killed someone i became a born again christian and did not want any children, we were taking precaution but 5 times it did not work
and thinking it was God's will blablabla
here i am with more burden for the government to take care of them when i die.

When i was young i was strong i could save the world and take care of people in need.
Getting older and trying to prepare for my familly in case of my death is very depressing.

I am thankful for all the people in Passions in Poetry because since i have been here i have grown to be not so morose.
Having all the different forum gives us a large range of sharing any kind of feeling a person can have and it has been helpful for me to read poetry. It is soothing to my soul.

monique
White Wolf
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21 posted 09-02-2000 06:38 PM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

I know I am abit late with this but I thought I would put my input in here.  First off I believe that abortion in wrong.  But I also believe that people do have the right to choose.  We were give that as a birthright.  But just as a parent is responsible for their children so is the person responsible for the unborn residing within her body.  When a person has an abortion they will take responsibility for their actions.  Some feel guilt.  Some feel remorse and some may feel something entirely different.  If you choose to have an abortion, it in no way affects the way I think of you.  Your pain is, excuse the expression but I can't think of any other way to put it, sufficent "punishment".  I have no right to tell you if you are right or wrong.  I don't know if I made any since to any of you but that is my nickle's worth on this.  Ok, ok maybe dime's or quarter's worth.  Be true.

The White Wolf


Would the bunny like this nice carrot? I don't bite. Much. :)
Moon Dust
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22 posted 09-02-2000 07:06 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

Abortion to me is murder.... A murder that people get away with everyday.

"Those who will not learn to use this instrument well cannot be saved by an expanded alphabet; they will only afflict us with expanded gibberish"
~
LoveBug
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23 posted 09-03-2000 02:46 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Sigh...
As an American teenager, I see this situation every day.  A girl in a nearby town died of infection and blood loss after she tried to give herself an abortion with a coat hanger. She was 13. The fact that this had to happen, even once, is horrible. I ask myself, who was the victim, the child, or the mother? They were both children, both with great potential. And they should both be mourned. It isn't our place to judge, it is God's place to do that. That's my answer to abortion. It is God's choice. If the mother chooses to do this, it is God's place to judge. Not a doctor's, not pro-lifers... God's. There is, of course, no simple answer to this question, but that's the closest thing we can get to one.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." -Oscar Wilde
"The robbed that smiles steals something from the thief" -Shakespea
Irish Rose
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24 posted 09-03-2000 07:39 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

I've heard many say "Why doesn't God do something about world peace, illness, send someone, a good man, a good woman, a leader, "
and I've heard "where are the poets, the real thinkers, the voice crying in the darkness?

I say" someone may have aborted them"


Kathleen

 
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