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Passions in Poetry

who is to blame?

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just_another_fe
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since 02-05-2000
Posts 504
MICHIGAN


0 posted 04-14-2000 05:33 PM       View Profile for just_another_fe   Email just_another_fe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit just_another_fe's Home Page   View IP for just_another_fe

i wrote a poem and it seems to b causing an intersting conversation from different sides. here is the poem ...


So many juveniles are sitting behind bars.
When I asked why your reply was murder,stealing and jacking cars
It's more then that but the world is to blind to see.
This is more then just a game, this is reality.
Molested by "family" when he was just five.
Mother died, At twelve he was left alone to survive.
His father has been in prison since he was just three.
Raised in foster families not knowing who he would be.
Rejected by his family so he joined a gang.
He needed some one that he could claim.
His gang was his family.They showed him love and cared.
In any confrontation they were there.
They taught him the things he needed to withstand life.
Helped and guided him through all his strife.
He did what they told him, he jacked a car
but he is behind bars because he's emotionally scared.
Who is to blame for this persecuted teen?
Not his family or the schools but society as a team.


I obviously blame the problem on society.... who is to blame?




 Don't fear failure so
much that you refuse to
try new things. The
saddest summary of a
life contains three
descriptions:
could have,
might have,
and should have.
--Louis Boone

X Angel
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since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


1 posted 04-15-2000 11:50 AM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

I really lay the blame on his dad who was a loser....his mom who wasn't much better and him for allowing life to mould him, instead of him making his life what he wanted to it to be. My husband had a pretty awful upbringing too...and he works hard now..never stole a car...is basically the *white* sheep of his family..no-one can understand why he turned out so decent LOL. I think WE all make our OWN choices as to who we are and what we will be...not society.

*hopping off soap box*

  ~X~
Poet deVine
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2 posted 04-15-2000 12:04 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think this is an interesting question. We shape and mold a child up to the age of about 14. By then, he/she has seen enough of life to begin to make decisions on his/her own. If a child of 12 sees someone killed and sees the aftermath of grief and suffering, he/she may still be too immature to absorb it. By the age of 14, most kids are mature enough to know right from wrong..even if they weren't taught to know it...you can't help but come in contact with the concept!

So many people want to place blame on their parents, their friends or society. (I know there are a lot of people with mental illnesses that render them incapable of making decisions or seeing right from wrong, but they are in a minority).

If asked about this particular boy, in this particular poem, I'd say - blame yourself son....YOU have the ability to change..YOU are the one responsible for putting yourself in this situation. YOU are to blame.

*Jumping down from the soapbox and running for cover!  
Nan
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since 05-20-99
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3 posted 04-15-2000 07:47 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

People do, in fact, emulate their role models: a combination of parents, peers, and societal influences.  

Our personalities are also formed primarily within the first five years of life. Instability during that time can be highly detrimental to proper maturation...
However - While the foundation of a person's being is primarily molded in the early years, a teen's understanding "right from wrong" or opting to "break" the law is a conscious choice.  A teenager who steals a car or participates in other criminal activities chooses to do so... "Blaming" parents and/or society is fruitless.

We're all responsible for ourselves and our own decisions in life....

*sharing the soapbox here*  
just_another_fe
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since 02-05-2000
Posts 504
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4 posted 04-15-2000 08:01 PM       View Profile for just_another_fe   Email just_another_fe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit just_another_fe's Home Page   View IP for just_another_fe

no nee hide everyone has their own opinion im not just talkin about the man in this poem though...and he has changed his life now hes in school passing with A's and B's to be a doctor ..... so basically you guyz are saying it the kids own fault that the only way they have seen to live life is the negative way? its their fault that they dont know any thing else?

X: the dad, the mom ( who died), the family, the neighbors that watched, the adminstrators in school that seen and did nothing....correct me if im wrong but isnt that society?

now pdv lol: you right by 14 they are about molded....not always molded the right way though. if all you see, know and hear is negative thats probally how your molded. How you have been molded will determine how you will be. And yes you did come across the right or wrong concept..but put yourself in the postion..no one there for you...thats the only way you know how to survive on your own. *shrugz* i dunno. I think if it was me and i never knew my dad..my mom died when i was 12..her family blamed me for her death...no one wanted me. my foster parents threatened to kill me. i might do the same thing. You cant blame him for no one caring  you cant blame him for no one teaching him what was wrong. you cant blame him for no being there. you cant blasme him for the schools that did nothing to help him. you cant blame him for the neighbors seeing how he was living and doing nothing about it....society could have changed this kids life if they would have got involved in it instead of ignoring it. if the neighbors would have called child protective services they could took the kid out of that drug house put him some were he would have had some one positive to teach him right from wrong. to help guide him.  but thats just my opinion  

im not speakin just about this child im speaking about all the children that live like this...not all of them end up behind bars but a great deal of them do. Are you saying that if society would have got involved this kid would still be the same? Society should get involved with these kids and the problems instead of ignoring them. If we as society would get involved a lot of the kids could be saved so we are to blame...in my opinion. and another "in my opinion" i think people are afraid to blame society because then the blame is also put on them.

[This message has been edited by just_another_fe (edited 04-15-2000).]
ESP
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since 01-25-2000
Posts 2574
Floating gently on a cloud....


5 posted 04-16-2000 06:31 AM       View Profile for ESP   Email ESP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ESP

Hey everyone, my opinion is that it is 50/50...some goes to the boy and the other half to society. Perhaps if they had both taken control of the situation together, it might have been different. *jumping off soap box*...I hope I'm not "rockin' the boat too much by saying that!

Love and hugs,
Lizzie



 "Poetry is the true expression of my soul, it is my ultimate means of communication. It is my rainbow of delight."
Poet deVine
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6 posted 04-16-2000 09:11 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

We are talking in generalities...to speak about one specific person, I would have to know that person. THIS person may never have listened to his conscience! You cannot tell me that every kid who had a rough life, no parents, bad teachers, etc. is going to turn out to be a criminal!! Sorry, I don't believe it.

If we believed your reasoning, then then maybe we should but 10 year olds in prison if they have no parents, bad foster parents, disinterested teachers....you are saying that these kids are not going to be able to function in society! Those are general statements.......that is what you asked for.. a general answer.

I for one, as a part of society, am tired of being blamed for the crimes of those that do not take responsibility for their actions. I pay taxes to support them. Whether they are on Welfare or in prison. I did not make them commit that crime. I am sorry for the person in the poem. Sounds like he's had a rough life....but so have a lot of others. And they don't commit crimes and blame 'society'.

On a personal note, I as a neighbor, would have called Child Protective Services! So the kid had lousy neighbors! Or they were afraid to call (maybe they had been threatened). I don't believe there was not one single person in that kids life that was kind and interested. Sounds strange....to live in a community, neighborhood, city where there is not one caring soul!

*Jumping off the soapbox again.


[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 04-16-2000).]
just_another_fe
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since 02-05-2000
Posts 504
MICHIGAN


7 posted 04-16-2000 12:51 PM       View Profile for just_another_fe   Email just_another_fe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit just_another_fe's Home Page   View IP for just_another_fe

pdv calm down. if you read what i said everyone has the right to their opinion and i said that i was not talking about just the person in this poem i was talking about all kids.Then I also said that not all of them end up behind bars but a great deal of them do.

If you have no positive anything in your life ever your not going to be a very positive person in the end even if you know "right from wrong"

and no we shouldnt "put 10 year olds in prison if they have no parents, bad foster parents, disinterested teachers...." but in my opinion i think we as society  should get involved with these "10 year olds" and help them lead their life in the right direction instead of ignoring the obvious so that they don't end up there.

and 1 more thing "he" is not blaming society...I am. This is not an individual problem...which makes it a problem among society.If there was "1 single person in that kids life who cared" why didn't they do anything for him? He had people in his life that cared...his brother. where is his brother now? prison.

So what your saying is the child is to blame?

let me go with another example the six year old boy that shot the little girl in a first grade class.   let me guess he was to blame for that right?or was it his parents? or was it his uncle? cuz  its not societies fault right? hm  big difference in opinion cuz i think it is societies fault. we should have did something!

but let me say again this is just my opinion
  



[This message has been edited by just_another_fe (edited 04-16-2000).]
Poet deVine
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8 posted 04-16-2000 01:15 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine



Ok...we are agreed that we each have our opinion....

That six year child lived in a house where violence was commonplace. Picking up a gun and aiming it at someone was probably something he had seen a lot....even if only as a form of threat...I believe the family of that child is to blame...not society... but then he's only six!

Why do we have to place blame anyway?
just_another_fe
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since 02-05-2000
Posts 504
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9 posted 04-16-2000 04:41 PM       View Profile for just_another_fe   Email just_another_fe   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit just_another_fe's Home Page   View IP for just_another_fe

why did he live in a house like that? Someone being part of society should have did something to get him out of a house like that. So ya its the families fault the gun was there but societies fault for letting this child live in a house where "violence was common place".It doesn't matter how old her was he still falls under "all kids"

We don't have to place the blame..but it is someones fault.



[This message has been edited by just_another_fe (edited 04-16-2000).]
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


10 posted 04-21-2000 12:16 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

The blame lies within one's self! You were given a mind, to know right from wrong. It is ultimately your decision to make those choices. Life may deal you a bum hand, but that doesn't mean that you can't make something good out of it.

When are we going to stop pointing fingers at everyone else and start looking at ourselves.

There is a song I'd like to share here, and it's so very true. Well it's unavailable at the moment, but pretty much what it says is, we can blame society, we can blame the teachers, the police our parents and the tv for not teaching or watching us...blame everything on everyone, but don't blame what I do on me.  That's what I think the major problem is today, no one takes consequences for their actions anymore. We all blame someone else.

We have to be responsible for our own actions.
Pepper
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since 08-19-99
Posts 3134
Southern Florida

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11 posted 04-21-2000 10:02 AM       View Profile for Pepper   Email Pepper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Pepper

I echo PdV and WhtDove on this ....
Tara Simms
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since 08-12-99
Posts 1285
Honea Path, SC USA


12 posted 04-23-2000 01:55 AM       View Profile for Tara Simms   Email Tara Simms   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Tara Simms's Home Page   View IP for Tara Simms

This shouldn't be about placing blame and figuring out whose fault it is.  If you spend your life blaming others for the things that happen to you, all you are doing is being a victim.  People need to take ACCOUNTABILITY for their actions.  

Ok, the kid (any of them) had a rotten life.  Bad role models, abused. Lots of people do. They don't all become criminals.  Not even the majority of them.  The teens are the ones who make the choices to steal cars, rob stores, vandalize, whatever.  Nobody is making them do that.  Life is what you make of it.  It's not predestined.  We all have the power to choose WHO and WHAT we are going to be.  


My mom died when I was 2 years old.  I was raised by an alcoholic father who physically and mentally abused my brother and I.  He often left us alone at night so he could go drink with his buddies.  I clearly remember the MPs (dad was in the Army) knocking on the door one night when I was 6 and left home alone with my 4 year old brother.  It took them half an hour to convince me to open the door because I knew I'd get in trouble if I let anybody know that we were alone at night.  There have been many MANY times when my dad did that.  One summer night when I was 8 there was a tornado warning (tornado had been spotted in area) and my brother and I were scared to death.  We called the bar to tell dad, who told us to take cover in the hallway.  Instead, we went to a neighbor's house.  They reported the situation to CPS many times.  Nothing was ever done.  When he remarried, I saw him beat my stepmother numerous times.  

Hard life, wouldn't you say?  But did I end up in prison because of it?  No!  Do I use it as my excuse for not accomplishing anything with my life?  No!  To do so would be to deny my own power.  To admit defeat.  In your mind's eye, we are all powerless, a thing to be pitied, "poor us" for what has happened to us.  That's a bunch of bull!  I am a strong, capable, responsible, caring, intelligent, productive member of society because that's what I choose to be.  My life doesn't define me.  I define it.



 It matters not how strait the gate;
How charged with punishments the scroll;
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
--W.E. Henley


Rosebud1229
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since 04-05-2000
Posts 1829
North Carolina


13 posted 04-23-2000 11:00 PM       View Profile for Rosebud1229   Email Rosebud1229   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Rosebud1229

I believe it is not only possible to have a better life but it is so. You see I to was one of those kids grew up in and out of foster care mother alcoholic, no supervision whatsoever. Somehow with God I came through, so yes I guess it did take some help and faith. I know so many times I cried out and wondered why me? Today I can say I have a normal life and some how have broken those chains. Can we surmise to say that just because we are hurt, it bears hurting others. The opposite applies to me, as to where I have more compassion for others than I think I ever would have had. When will we start helping these troubled teens that need so much to have a decent life? I also say if it is to be it's up to me. So if there are any troubled children seek help, if not from your parents then God is truly the only way to go.
Gemini
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since 12-15-1999
Posts 1223
Wisconsin, USA


14 posted 06-12-2000 09:29 PM       View Profile for Gemini   Email Gemini   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Gemini

I'm sorry I didn't read your poem sooner or all the fantastic comments.  I read something somewhere and I'm not sure who I can give credit to, but it stuck with me:
Every saint has a past and
Every sinner has a future.
I could never judge anyone, but try to have compassion for everyone and at the same time believe we are all responsible for ourselves.
Temptress
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Member Rara Avis
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15 posted 06-12-2000 11:39 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

In the earlier years I blame his parents, but at some point aren't we all responsible for our own actions? (even before teenage years) I'm not making a slight on your question when I say this (so please don't be offended), but people are so quick to place blame that they seem to spend less time findig a solution or reprimand.  I hope I've made some sense.

 Nothing can deter a poet, for he is actuated by pure love. Who can predict his comings and goings? "Thoreau"


monique
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since 02-03-2000
Posts 377
Louisiana


16 posted 06-15-2000 10:17 AM       View Profile for monique   Email monique   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for monique

i think sterilization should be more available
too many people are having children
not wanting them
my mom did not want children and even tried to kill me when i was in her
and i wish i would not be
because i did the same thing having children that i did not want
you are with a man and you try to please him even though you don't want to do it we still do it
and we have created a bunch of weak minded people
i look at my children and i can see the same pattern my son is letting the strong mind rule his life he has a helpful heart and he lets people take over and he  gets in trouble
i have 3 handicap children and go to the doctors a lot and see so many children born for no reason but for a dick in heat and the teenage girl do not know what hit her
i have a friend who teaches handicap children and she had an eight years old who kept having veneral disease she tried to get that child out of her crack head mom's life and it took 5 years before it happen
a lot of people need to be sterilize
including me i should have been
i wanted to be but did not know how to go about it to dumb like a lot of us girls
the same friend worked in an orphanage in Haiti and it is monstruous all the people having babies and abandon them when they are born
i had another friend who went into the street of Bogota helping abandon children on the street
it is amazing how we cannot stop this so easy having babies that we cannot raise ourselves
how weak can we be?
a lot of teenagers are having babies and the great-grand-mother is taking care of them
i lived around children raised practically alone the mom is at work all the time and there is no dad but young man dealing drug all around them that is their role model
be cool and deal drugs
i had those children at my house a lot they became my son's best friend but we moved the shooting got so bad
we moved to the country and the same thing is happening here all these pretty country girl with pretty country boy having babies and they deal with drug and get on welfare
and i talk to them and they wished they would have waited they realized how it is hard to raise children
i know this teenage girl she is mentally retarded and wants a baby so bad and she has dirty old man approaching her so much
it is a very scary situation
there is a world out there of easy making babies no regard for their well-being
i am one of them
when i was 3 my sister was 1
our mother put us in a cab and send us to our dad who was an alcoolic and
a sexual maniac using me for fun
when he was drunk
there is a race of weak mind out there
who don't know how to live
i am on of them
my husband and i try to let our son see that people are using him but they are his friend to him and he keeps getting in trouble
he has my weak mind

monique

JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


17 posted 06-16-2000 12:06 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

"Everything is your own damn fault, if you're any good."  Ernest Hemmingway.

Society has a responsibilty to care for, teach, and guide the members of that society (and I use society to describe family on through to the community at large). That responsibility does not however, translate to blame when an individual chooses the wrong path.

Yes, it is difficult for someone to choose the right path if they have lived with the wrong examples, but an individual is not exposed to just those examples.  Each child that chooses to rob a store based on the example shown by his gang family or whatever, has also seen people walking to thier jobs, standing behind the counter, doing the things that responsible members of society do.  Therefore, the choice made is clearly the that, a choice.

The BLAME, is always and must always be placed where it belongs, on the individual making the choice.

 Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

"Everything is your own damn fault, if you are any good."  E. Hemmingway



[This message has been edited by JP (edited 06-16-2000).]
 
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