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Appeasement
| Corner Pub #2 |
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Appeasement |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road 
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A rogue state is being appeased It is powerful and can do much harm A rogue state is being kow-towed to We need to raise the alarm A rogue state of military might Is threatening one and all It threatens peace and threatens war It's plots will make us fall It is appeased by a few sad states Who want to stay on side They see the bully and quake in fear Just flowing with the tide With the tide of war They believe they're safe Believing might is right They lie and twist And turn in fear Of the bully in their sight The arrogant commander The 'Thief in Chief' He stole the state's election Now his hawks have plans To run the world Now all need our protection So stand up tall and don't accept These warriors and their plans Don't appease these ugly men These hawks and corporate clans They would destroy this world With their arrogant ways They only see with hate and fury Consign them to the past That's where they belong Unfit for judge or jury Bush must not judge our every step By his degraded standards All decent Americans join the cause Don't let yourself be slandered |
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| © Copyright 2003 Allan Tierney - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Wesley the Blue Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 426Forest Lake, MN, USA |
Ok, let me start by saying that I like your style of poetry. Its consice and clear in message. Now for "Any comment under the sun." You beat a dead horse, and in the process run the risk of appearing as what you speak out against. What I mean is this. Over the last couple of weeks the only things you have posted have been anti US/Bush, it makes you look like you have nothing else to say and all you are is a hate monger. I understand where you are coming from, I dont agree with just about everything the Bush administration does and have said so. That said I will say that there is little recourse that we can take, as long as he is president he speaks "for the people" of the united states and the process of removing him from office would likely take until the next election if it was even succesfull. This forum is for the proliferation of poetry, not for airing personal political views. That is not to say you cant post political poems, but it seems to me that recently you have been using the forum for the later purpose instead of the former. In recent history you have attacked our (by this I mean the US) leaders, our culture, our way of life, and our world views. I can take criticism as well as the next guy and I respect other peoples views as long as they respect me, but this constant stream of critical poetry is a little too much and I do not feel that you are respecting my country and fellow countrymen, which means you are not respecting me. Perhaps you should set aside your crusade for a little while, dont abandon it, criticism is good, but give us a break from it, nobody is perfect, we know it, so dont rub our faces in it. Thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth, I hope it makes sense. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Okay Wesley, I understand your point. But I would like you to understand that here in the United Kingdom we are scared out of our wits. Not by Saddam Hussein but by George W. Bush and his very unmerry men. One fifth of the people in my part of the UK, Scotland are losing sleep nightly due to this. For us this is the most dangerous moment of our lives. I think you might excuse us and myself if we think this is damn important. Yes, Bush is your leader and this is your war but you don't seem to take on board that we didn't vote Bush World Leader. He has no sanction from us to go shooting fish in a barrel across the other side of the planet. He wasn't even voted in by a majority of your own people. I wonder if you have any concept of how out of control Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney look to us? And I and my countrymen and women are seeing jingoistic hatred from Americans on the web every day. They talk about wiping out Baghdad, they in hysterical glee about slaughtering Iraqis. There seem to be very few of you saying "Wait a minute here, aren't we starting to behave like the terrorists we condemn?" What we see is a bunch of people shouting "My country right or wrong!" and trying to shut anyone else with a counter view up with insults and smears of them being unpatriotic or unAmerican. I understand that it is very difficult for you to get the full feeling of disgust and dismay we feel here in the rest of the world at the arrogance of many in America right now. We gave Bush no go ahead to do any of this. Our own leader Tony Blair is not supported by his own people because we don't believe what he is saying. This is about arrogant American hawks on a payback mission for 9-11 and to enable them to create forward bases for further pushes. please try to understand that we don't want the policies of Bush and co. and that we are fighting for a peaceful future on this planet. We see Bush and his henchmen as the number one danger for world peace and the safe future for our children and grandchildren. I make no apologies for my posts here. By this time anyone who has read one or two will know what I am saying and can easily avoid them by not looking at them. It is that simple. But as long as Bush is a broken record on Iraq and his blood lust to bomb the hell out of it then I will in my small way make counter points to that. For me there is (as you will have gathered) no greater issue right now. We in the UK see that this is only the beginning for Bush and his hawks. That scares us all the more. We don't hate America, we are simply scared to death of it. [This message has been edited by allan (03-11-2003 05:36 PM).] |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
If you don't believe me please read the words of US diplomat John Brown who joined John Brady Kiesling and resigned today. "I am joining my colleague John Brady Kiesling in submitting my resignation from the Foreign Service - effective immediately - because I cannot in good conscience support President Bush's war plans against Iraq," he said. "Throughout the globe the United States is becoming associated with the unjustified use of force," Brown said in the letter, a copy of which he sent to AFP. "The president's disregard for views in other nations, borne out by his neglect of public diplomacy, is giving birth to an anti-American century," he said. "I joined the Foreign Service because I love our country," Brown said. "Respectfully, Mr Secretary, I am now bringing this calling to a close, with a heavy heart but for the same reason that I embraced it." Two senior State Department officials confirmed that Powell had received the letter from Brown, who had served at the US embassies in London, Prague, Krakow, Kiev, Belgrade and Moscow before being assigned to be a diplomat-in-residence at Georgetown University in Washington.' http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/11/1047144953819.html |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
A figure of well-respected integrity in the Australian intelligence community resigned today over his government's policy on Iraq. His name is Andrew Wilkie. It is said that many in the intelligence community share his views. "He has a set of personal ethics that are absolute. This is not a decision he would have taken lightly. "To my mind he is a hardworking, very competent, very capable, very trustworthy person. "He would have had access to high level intelligence." http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/s804475.htm 'Mr Wilkie today said Iraq did not pose a security threat to any country, its military was weak and its weapons of mass destruction program disjointed and contained. The Iraq problem was unrelated to the war on terror, he said. While Iraq was a rogue state, the Iraq problem was more related to US domestic politics and US credibility, he said.' http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/12/1047144999476.html |
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Wesley the Blue Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 426Forest Lake, MN, USA |
The issue here is not a dissagreement on subject. I in fact agree with most of what you say about my government (which in case you care, which I doubt you do, I did not vote into power). The issue is that this is a forum for the appreciation, advancement, and sharing of poetry, not political views. Neither is this a discussion forum for posting a plethera of outside information that is not poetry or poetry related. If that is a problem perhaps you should look to a different venue to air your thoughts. My view is leave the poetry, for that is what we here are about, and lose the superflous commentary, use it elsewhere. |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Wesley, I am not trying to be rude but I think you will find that there is a long and proud tradition of poetry which protests against war. Similarly there is a long long tradition of political poetry. (Could you direct me to the rules in Passions which say that what I am doing is not part and parcel of poetry?) Please, have a look at poetry from the various wars down the years. My poetry doesn't compare in quality to te best of this. Check out World War I in particular. I think you'll find much fine poetry there. I DO undertand your point however and I will lay off for a time. Perhaps I need to look harder but I don't see many other war poems here and at least at MY local pub it is THE topic of conversation at the moment. [This message has been edited by allan (03-12-2003 11:28 AM).] |
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Wesley the Blue Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 426Forest Lake, MN, USA |
The poems are fine, its the pages of extra information that has nothing to do with poetry. That kind of thing is more suited to a discussion forum than this one. Im sure there are plenty of message boards out there that would be more than happy to have you voice your opinions in their forums. What I was trying to say with my last post was that I wouldnt mind seeing your poetry posted here, but its the volume of extra information that I feel doesnt belong. I appologize for my first reply, it was a kneejerk reaction and I didnt take enough time to truely think it through and say what I felt I needed to say. |
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Street Heart Member
since 2002-09-05
Posts 349Pennsylvania,USA |
Dear Allen, How are you doing,my friend? I see that there is quite a lot of debate going on here.There are a few things I'd like to say to those who are protesting against your posts and comments. Firstly,I am stating to you that you are mistaken about not seeing any other poets using their writing skills to comment about this dangerous time of our lives,about "War". I have submitted 2 so far.Saying this,I find it interesting that those certain offerings that I submitted had no negative replies. Truly I tell you that I most definitely am siding with you on these important issues. Many would find this "Un-American".But surely as I write these words,it is on those original ideals that this country was based on,that I am most definitely American.The horror of this to me is that those principals have been perverted or corrupted since then.The "Freedom" that our founding fathers upheld has been used as argument against censorship,and in the meantime,every manner of filth can be spewed out from every facet of the media.This,however is besides the point,but in addition to this,I have seen most Americans become extremely arrogant and tend to take many things for granted.It reminds me of the Roman Empire where the "cancer" within the empire itself brought about its own downfall (we've all read and heard enough of how arrogant THEY were!). I wonder how many truly do understand.I am a patriot...yes! BUT.....I also happen to be a victim of whatever government that happens to be in power(To be read;what certain, specific man/men who happen{s} to be at the top).....NO DIFFERENT than those who are patriots (those who love the land/ nation in which they live) living in any other country who ALSO are victims of their own country's leadership.Could I as one human being who holds compassion be able to add more suffering to those already suffering? In addition,the talents or gifts that I have been given,should they not be used to speak out against these atrocities, against these warmongering leaders,against all that should not be?How could I not use the musical talents or writing talents that I've been given and write those songs which protest against the "things that should not be"?Do those who protest your posting your views turn off their radios whenever they hear,"Give Peace A Chance",or,"The Answer Is Blowing In The Wind",amongst many others? Many of my offerings on this site were in reference to my past homelessness state.I have included on many of those a commentary describing my passion on helping those who are still in that state,information on how to help,and sometimes just conveying my experiences and feelings on the matter.There was NOT ONE who told me that I should not use "Passions" as a way to inform others about mine and other's homelessness.There is not one person telling me that my replies or posts were in appropriate. Allan,yes...."Roses are red,violets are blue...",is fine.Writing about the beauty of nature or the wonder of Love is natural, understandable,etc. They are things we as human beings relate to.WE ARE POETS. We write about the human condition.There is nothing more imperative or relevant.You have your "Freedom" to express.....and not only that!You have that capability to enlighten and stir me!!! Do not heed those who intend on shutting you up.There are many,many... I repeat...many posts that I am sure would make many blush by their content or trouble someone by its unneeded or coarse language.I see that within "Passions" there is an area for sexual writings.Fine and well...the thing is that I of my own choosing do not open those pages.I have that power.I suggest that those who oppose the God-given right to express "Passions" do likewise and move on. I,for one....am American,yes.....BUT,so much more importantly; I am a human being who heeds a higher authority...GOD,if not just simply using my God-given brain to understand the easy logic that killing people is not the cure-all for our worlds ills.Yes,I will express this here,Allan.Your fellow-human friend is quite weary of the world's policies and inappropriate behaviors.One last thought- What is the difference? A nation,a people who threatens another nation with war and death saying that that nation can not have the same rights or the same freedoms as they do and are going to pay with their lives,or a nation that ignores its own people,the thousands if not millions of those who are homeless and dying in that state every day? Allan,to me there is not that big of a difference.There is more than one way to kill a heart,a soul,a life. If a man has not discovered something he is willing to die for,his life is not worth living. |
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aries_luv_ppl Senior Member
since 2001-09-20
Posts 1448Universal Mind |
I'm with ya Allan, except, I think i read one thread you were attacking member directly in reply because she/he has different view from you. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I think sometimes you emotion are too high. It's alright to submit poems about anti-war, and extra info I find them open up my eyes for I don't read much news. However, I believe one of your post is a script rather than poem, and I agree with another reply to this thread that this place is for poetry...so if you can post a poem, not directly to others but merely stating facts and how others are impacted by it, then add some additional foodnotes....it will be perfectly fine for me. I agree with Street Heart too. Thanks for reading my reply. ~Every girl has a dream within. |
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Street Heart Member
since 2002-09-05
Posts 349Pennsylvania,USA |
Well,Allan,I had to respond again.I just wanted to say that I submitted one offering entitled,"9/11/2000" months ago.In it,I,for the most part,described my rememberances of the WTC when I was homeless,and what it meant to me.It did not rhyme and I'm not apologizing.Is it prose?I suppose. (Didn't intend the rhyme there,but it's appropriate).So,I don't find you guilty of any wrongs.Expression takes many forms and your expression comes from extreme concern, care and fear.Hence,any offering you give describing your "Passions"(Yes,people,the site is called "Passions In Poetry") in a passionate way is entirely appropriate and commendable.In addition,every reply that is given by others is usually not written in rhyme.So if others write responses as this,are you not to write your response likewise and explain as any normal person would?The replies are given in response of the offerings and sometimes in greetings.All comments should, of course,be courteous and appropriate.We all have our right to our opinions and despite seeing that you have been attacked to a certain degree in response to your expressions,opinions,..."Passions",if you will,I have never read any vicious response from you,nor have I seen you give disrespect to anyone,so...again,I say,write on,Allan. If a man has not discovered something he is willing to die for,his life is not worth living. Martin Luther King,Jr. Detroit,1963 [This message has been edited by Street Heart (03-12-2003 03:50 PM).] |
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Joyce Johnson
since 2001-03-10
Posts 9912Washington State |
I think Allan you will find lots of my poems that reflects the sad state of the world when we must turn to war to cure it. Joyce |
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allan Senior Member
since 2000-04-09
Posts 620On the road |
Wesley, I get what you are saying and I will hold up my hands and admit I am guilty of wanting to communicate even more than my poor words can tell. I understand that this can look pretty heavy and detract from the more elegant discussion of the verses themselves. I DO have a passion to communicate to all Americans I can right now because I believe you are collectively on the verge of an enormous error. It wont take much to wipe the floor with Iraq - the country is so much weaker than during the Gulf War. But even if you do this thing and all "seems" well you will have lost our repect. Perhaps for ever. Perhaps you don't care. In your anger and fear you just want to lash out and hurt somebody, anybody. Or else you just want to prove how good or how powerful, strong and invulnerable you are. But all it is saying to us is WEAKNESS and COWARDICE. I don't say this in any heat of passion or hatred in any way, but in sadness. War is coming. It is the US war - we Brits don't want it - almost no population of any country except your own wants it. The majority of your population seems to want it and we despise you for that weakness. I'm sorry, that isn't just a ranter trying to hurt you - it just is like that. And if you kill a thousand kids, their blood spraying over the sands of Iraq don't think we will forgive you any time soon... Sorry, I didn't mean to get into that, I was trying to admit I get carried away and apologise for that... Thank you SO much Geoff. Your warm-hearted and understanding posts are so healing and warming. You are like a balm to my spirit. There WAS a woman who patronized me on another post and maybe I WAS rougher on her than I should have been. But there is NOTHING I like less than being patronized (!) It is a weakness maybe but as we say here it gets my goat! War is coming very soon. But it wont be a war, more of a slaughter. I remember when I worked with Americans from the southern states when I worked in the oild industry in the north of Scotland. This was in the late Seventies. Some of them had been to Vietnam. They used to talk about "Shooting fish in a barrell" - (they talked with much glee on this topic as I remember). I imagine there will be those who will talk in gleeful sadism along the same lines in the next week or ten days. And there will be more arrogant marching songs describing the disembowelling of Arabs and such like. (We get to see plenty of documentaries of American military training methods here...) War is Hell so why do they say Bush is a "Christian"? |
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