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Answers For America
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Answers For America |
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Bilby Junior Member
since 2001-07-31
Posts 14Northern Territory, Australia |
somebody hijacked those oddly diverting images of devastation in miserably distant cities and slammed them into middle America, half way up. staring at the rubble, the Citizens of De-Muck-Rah-Cy tried to put it into context: dammit, no-one warned about this on MTV, on Oprah, on AOL, on Nickelodious yet, those cranky yankee eyes lifted beyond flag-waving retribution may see shreds of steely truth among still-smoking debris the fragments of a world trade centre look startlingly similar to a television tower in Belgrade cindered by guileless missile the starkly violated frame of a Pentagon bears the air of wounded innocence of a Sudanese milk factory unerringly hell-fired from afar the bodies of emergency workers in their dismal death smell as jarringly repulsive as dumb villagers of My Lai so effectively exterminated in four hours the shock writ deep upon onlookers, residents, patriots chillingly resembles the disbelief of rescuers pulling dismembered Iraqi children from the shelter where they had cowered dismiss not, if you please, the dishonour roll of hot wars and cold wars, overt and covert wars, gun-running, assassinations, invasions and missile diplomacy all cunningly made in Uncle Sam, not the inventor of international thuggery, no, merely its arch exponent in myriad forms - from carpet bombing to baby-emaciating sanctions - across a wounded world kept forever in necessary pain by stars-and-stripes imperialism, the high-tech torture rack of the age dismiss it, perhaps, while you bury the dead and wipe your eyes, but do not remove it from the smouldering horizon of your collaterally-damaged national conscience for therein will you find the answers: a veritable 767 load of come-uppance with all the answers |
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| © Copyright 2001 Alan Whykes - All Rights Reserved | |||
Charisma
since 2000-09-30
Posts 5906lost in blue pages |
Welcome to passions. Powerful entrance that shows some answers. Check your mail for e special greeting! Charisma |
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Marge Tindal
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
Occupation: writer? sort of :-) Location: Northern Territory, Australia Interests: cyborg poetry, *Sufism, sepak takraw, Indonesian E-mail:alanyx@hotmail.com I think your interest in *Islamic Mysticism is sadly evident in your biased views of our tragedy. Actually, I'm not fond of the form of your sort of writing OR the content. But then, what do I know ? I actually AM a stars and stripes writer, burying my dead and wiping my eyes~ Graced with the freedoms that America affords her citizens, we're BOTH entitled to our opinions. However, in America no one makes us respect the others should we happen to vehemently disagree with it. ~*Marge*~ ~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~ |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Acts of war are indeed atrocious. Acts of terrorism are beyond despicable and affrontive to all humankind. There is a distinct difference. While war has been an integral part of our planet's history since the inception of time, any of us would surely rewrite those dark times if we could. As our planet pulls its hands together in prayer, there are surely those who who stand in deference. It is with a heavy heart that I leave this post intact. I do so only because of the FREEDOM of speech that the great United States of America is founded upon. The philosophy of Passions in Poetry is that all of our members are welcome to express their feelings - provided they do not glorify harm to oneself or others. If you are indeed a "new" member of our family, you obviously don't understand our network of worldwide mutual support - Perhaps reading some of our poets' works will enlighten you. If you are a standing member who has registered a new alias for the purpose of posting this 'poem,' you do so with cowardice - for not having sufficient respect to speak your mind openly. |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
In some countries a person would be arrested, assaulted, even assassinated by their own leaders and "powers that be" for simply voicing their opinion as you have just done here... That's the difference between "us" US and them Pardon me, for while I respect your right to voice your opinion...as MANY have died guaranteeing us that right you offer no answers...and this type of disrespect is what will be easily "dismissed." Poetry Land is a place built on a foundation of respect...you probably wont like it here. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
and who, my new friend, sends money and food and clothing to these people? we do....who helps rebuild cities and governments...we do..obviously you do not care about us in our time of tragedy...but believe me..WE do...if this happened in ANY country...even in the country of our enemies, we would still feel this pain... 'be the flame' is what you say in your line to encourage critiques...I cannot be the flame for it is being held high right now in the hand of our Lady Liberty. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Due to policies of Passions, I do not feel free to answer you in this forum. Perhaps you should take this one to the alley? I'd buy tickets for that one. |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
Um, I think that somehow you have been misguided and I want you to know that I WILL pray for YOU too. |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
Interesting entrance into a forum that has for the last few days been grieving for the loss of so many and as most Americans have, been finding the symbols of our country to have new meaning. Bold... some would say audacious entry... You write well...and some of the things you say in your poem are true...these are some of the reasons for the "hatred" the US seems to find abroad. I do believe however that it is perspective here, not fact, that makes the things you say reasons for this hatred. I have lived through the assasination of JFK, VietNam, Gulf War, Bosnia, and all of the conflict and police actions in between. I grieved then for the loss of life, just as I think most here did. I grieve now for the loss of life on our own soil. Still... regadless of whether the blood spilled was here, or in some other corner of the world, a death is a death, and terrorism is terrorism...all are terrible. My thoughts wander to the perceptions...and while I know this country is not perfect, that its leaders at times have made difficult maybe even bad choices that resulted in death to others, I would put it side by side with any other nation in the world, and ask all to show me where it worse than any other...No.I personally do not agree with all we have done as a nation, but I do believe it is the best in the world. Your thoughts are noted....your style appreciated... and our opinions...well suffice it to say different for now. I think perhaps the reasons...are excuses...or twisted perceptions... and I admit, mine is biased... |
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Mother_Earth Senior Member
since 2000-11-20
Posts 13701/2 year Texas & 1/2 year Michigan |
Bilby, I am with all the others from PIP and agree that we have built this United States of AMERICA from all who wanted to start over in freedom. Maybe we have lost sight of what we stand for. And in America, you, too have the right to say what you did. And we have the right to tell you how we feel. You are another "face-less" person and may you stay that way. ME |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Because this has taken on the form of a discussion, it will be moved to pipTalk Lounge. Thank you. |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
first of all, as JM so aptly said, the United States IS the land of the free because we are able to speak our opinions and THAT is something we are proud of and a privilege and RIGHT which will not allow to be taken away from us. Yes, there has been blood on every nation's hands. Your poem speaks some truths but at the same time, it slants them with certainly, with a tone of propaganda. None of us can know all the full truth of every incident of war throughout the world. Although your writing style is dynamic and forceful and although i deeply respect a poet and writer who is not afraid to speak his or her Truth, I am proud, so very proud, that I live in a nation where ALL OPINIONS can be expressed.... BUT... i do NOT think name calling and political commentary with a bigoted attitude has a place on these forums. As I said, in acts of war, each country has blood on their hands.... but to call the United States "the inventor of international thuggery", and "stars and stripes imperialism", is simply uncalled for. Yes, we should try to analyze the "why" this happened, and the "how" it could have happened and as writers and authors and poets, I believe we have a responsibility to the world to speak our Truths and conclusions. I don't believe, however, that name calling and accusatory statements are a responsible way of proceeding. During this time of World Grieving, do you really think this type of analysis in the form of poetry does any good? ARen't you flaming the fire, rather than trying to douse it? The first time I read your poem, I knew there were many true statements you have made about how the images of what happened on 9/11/2001 in NY and Washington DC seem somewhat reminiscent of other incidents that happened in other areas of the world during times of war. It wasn't until I read it for the second and third time that I got the full sense of your tone, which seems deliberately accusatory and blatantly full of negative statements about the United States. The facts are these..... Innocent people have been blatantly murdered by terrorists. The world is in a state of shock. Responsible writing to express an opinion is called for, yes, but name-calling and political propaganda pieces during a time of world grieving is irresponsible and painful. I received an email today from a friend who wanted to share with me the Libertarian viewpoints of the "why" this could have happened. That mail discussed the history of various past events just as your poem does and was also biased, but at least there was no name-calling as you have done here. There is no need for that...... instead, let us all look inward and find the peace necessary to deal with this tragedy, look toward the past and try to examine the truths as well as the mistakes of many, and move forward ....... in unity and strength, fighting what SHOULD be fought.... the denial of freedom and the meaningless destruction and loss of innocent life. Yes, be strong. Accept your calling as a writer to speak the Truth... but please do not slant it with political propaganda. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
came back to applaud doreen...  [This message has been edited by serenity (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I didn't think he wrote that well at all... in fact.. this is really very bad. |
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inot2B Member Elite
since 2000-09-18
Posts 2205Arkansas |
Feel blessed that some of us do not know who you really are. We are a family here and personally you can say what YOU want, but I refuse to think of you as part of OUR family. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
yep, Reb's right. Someone try to explain what is good about this. |
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citizenx Member
since 2001-07-31
Posts 189motorcade |
People should never be mixed in with politics, living in Ireland I know this well. You have points, valid to an extent but I don't think now is the time to voice them. People are rallying together NOT because of a political ideal or for some slain politician. They are uniting together because thousands of innocent people perished when a hijacked plane crashed into the twin towers. This is not about democracy this is about the deaths of countless innocent people. People and politics should never be mixed. Yes the free world is not without its sins, but this is not in a time of war. This was an unprovoked attack. Politics are irrelevant it this, also to get technical what happened is in direct violation of the rules of war so this makes your points mute. Please reanalysis the situation, the people who died in that building were innocent and were brutally murdered. "The writer who refuses to explore the darker regions of the heart will never be able to write convincingly of the wonder, magic or joy of love" nick [This message has been edited by citizenx (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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Acies
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-07
Posts 7665Twilight Zone |
Just remember the country that helped and protected you against Obvious Japanese invasion/occupation in WWII. hi Sweets, Lizzy, Kris, Ina, Allysa, Erica, Minna, Kit, Kamie, Javi, Jenn, Sharon, Nan, Cawlee, Cherish, Ashley, Sara, Justine, Leah, Jess, Kimmie, Ma |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I would ask for moderation. I know this is a very difficult time, but that is no excuse for the hurtful, angry and threatening language I've seen in these replies. Though I disagree with the poem, I still respect his freedom of speech, though he might not have been totally responsible with that right. We are a country of freedom, liberty, and tolerance. Even in this dark time of hurt and anguish, I would ask of you those ideals, even in the face of poetic provocation. Any further malignant language will result in that reply being deleted. Also, I would encourage those who wish to edit their reply to do so, to keep in accordance with Discussion's and Passion's philosophies. Alicat Pax Poeticus Pax Christu [This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
Acire, don't start on the 'we saved you in WW2' etc. It's not needed nor relevant to this topic. I tend to stick with Australians on this but what you have said isn't right. You must have known that coming into an American based poetry site that piece would stir up trouble. You do have quite a bit of courage for posting it if you already knew but is it really worthy annoying people to that degree? In the end, it's your opinion and wouldn't the world be a boring place if we all thought and felt the same? Take care. "Kelly's my Hero!" "No, Kelly's your heroine." "Kelly has heroin??" "What?" |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
quote: I Just wanted to ask some valid questions. Are you saying that if this happened in your country, to you, to someone you knew, to someone you loved, that you'd have a barbecue? Throw a little party? Roast a few weenies on the fire? And CHAT about the sins of your father, your country? The past hashed over with a cigarette and long blows of hot air? Do you think you don't have a horse in this race? Terrorism makes us all potential targets! No matter what our past sums up to. What have you done that is so lily white? While you think on a decent reply.... We have REAL needs to attend to. And frankly, even though I value you as another human being, I found your topic misleading and content lacking to address the title. And a bit boring in the face of the NOW, not the past. Please spend some time hugging your family, instead of digging up old bones. I can only hope you will rethink your contradicting accusation of our "high-tech torture rack." For such a thing would bring fear to any believer of that grossly judging quote. Obviously you aren't as shaken as we are. For if you are expecting us to look into our past for answers, then when we retaliate, will you then write a poem to the guilty of this crime and ask them to find theirs? Doesn't make sense to me. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Maybe we should move it to CA then Ali? And I agree descending into jingoism and personal attacks is really beneath us -- we should stick to the merits of the literature here or absence thereof. [This message has been edited by Local Rebel (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
To Bilby, You took your freedom to speak and used it for hurting people I'll take my freedom to be silent and use it for not hurting you Titia A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess... |
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Paula Finn Member Ascendant
since 2000-06-17
Posts 5546missouri |
Because I respect my fellow poets I will not say all the angry words this post inspired..instead I will just give you this link...it says it all... http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I agree with LR and Pete. This is a bad poem. I agree with Alicat, this is no place for threats, personal or otherwise. I agree that it was irresponsible. I agree with (almost) everything the poem says. I agree that Americans were blind to the world around us. I agree that the American government has done bad things. I agree that the American government has made mistakes. So what? I can concede almost everything this poem says because it doesn't matter (anymore). What happens next is what matters. Americans didn't know there was a war. Now they do. Let's see what happens. Brad |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
Nicely said, Brad. "Kelly's my Hero!" "No, Kelly's your heroine." "Kelly has heroin??" "What?" |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Want to hear a nice little paradox? Nations are comprised of people, and people make mistakes. Sometimes, very horrible mistakes. Yet, you cannot, in the name of justice, judge people based on the mistakes of a nation. I walked the paths of Vietnam, but never entered the small village of My Lai. I voted for the man who sent to me to that grim country, but I never started that war nor any war since. I carried a rifle, but never shot a student at Kent State. I am wholly and fully responsible for my own actions, my own decisions, even my own lack of actions at times. But please don't think to punish me for the mistakes of others - because God knows I've made enough of my own. I fully believe people need to be held accountable for their own actions. I believe it so strongly it has cost me friendships and familial ties. But, while responsibility isn't always cast in shades of black and white, to punish someone simply because they were born in a country, or of a certain ethnic origin, or because they speak a specific language, is as far removed from any viable definition of "justice" as anything I can remotely imagine. A child, angered on the playground and unable to reach the object of their torment, will often lash out at anyone they can reach. Let us agree, as adults, to forego those childish ways. America has made mistakes because Americans have made mistakes. Very specific, usually very identifiable Americans. Were those who died this past Tuesday guilty by association? Did they deserve their fate because others of their country transgressed? Of course not, and only a child on the playground would argue otherwise. But, you know, that works both ways, my friends. There is a thread in the Dark forum right now, Tragedy in the U.S., where a few heated responses are in danger of crossing the same line. There are very specific, and we hope very identifiable people responsible for this terrorism. If they are being given refuge somewhere, that refuge is being offered by very specific and definitely identifiable people. Let's not make the mistake of lashing out at a nation, or a religious group, or an ethnic population simply because we are righteously angered. Innocent people have already suffered. If more innocents suffer in the future, as sadly may happen, let it not be because we were childish and wanted them to pay for the sins of others. Reserve your wrath for the few who so deserve it, and refuse to condemn others through association or residency. Else we will be no better than those we hunt, and no different than the misguided author of this poem. |
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Bilby Junior Member
since 2001-07-31
Posts 14Northern Territory, Australia |
I will make three points. 1. Some of the aspersions cast on me in earlier posts are misleading. I am not an ex- or current member in another guise. Simply put, I am a new member. I'm a frequent writer, reader and critiquer of poetry and that's why I'm here. Someone also equated Sufism with 'Islamic mysticism' which is not particularly accurate given that prime contemporary exponents such as Irina Tweedie ("The Chasm Of Fire") are in fact Christian. I also reject the implication that anyone who has an interest in an Islamic field is necessarily biased on this issue. I do accept the premise, however, that of course every person's views are coloured with the hues of their knowledge and experienced. I trust that readers will be aware of their own biases as they seek to pillory mine. 2. I believe the poem has its merits. I note that those who have said it is 'bad' have given no reasons. This is somewhat disappointing, as it does not provide any constructive advice for me. I do not wish to enter into a lengthy defence of the poem, partly out of habit and partly because I don't think the climate is particularly receptive. Suffice to say, my intention was to provide a fleshing out, as it were, in modern context of the sentiments expressed in the following quote: "You and I know that this continuous putting pins in rattlesnakes finally got this country bitten." Who said it? Ex-President Herbert Hoover, the day after Pearl Harbour. 3. I apologise to those who took offence to any aspect of the poem, even though none was intended. Concerning the comments about me, any poet who wishes to put work in the public domain must be prepared to accept what is coming. Folks are entitled to their views, even those who are hasty to judge or quick to rail that a poem is disrespectful or traitorous without, I submit, fully understanding it. When the dust settles, I hope to share more poetry. Regards, Alan. |
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JamesMichael Member Empyrean
since 1999-11-16
Posts 33336Kapolei, Hawaii, USA |
I think the motive behind this poem is a little hard to understand...the writer seems to lack a sense of compassion...I think the timing is wrong...however when I review the substance I think the writer is just trying to tell us that everyone that has gone through a time of suffering feels pain the same....I don't want to try to interpret the reasoning behind this in any detail because I think the best form of expression in this forum is to simply express our feelings within the form of poetry as this writer has already done...any other explanation would really have to come from the author...so go ahead...explain...James |
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kaile
since 2000-02-06
Posts 5146singapore |
perhaps you are right but is such analysis more important than life and death itself? could it have been done at a later moment? |
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G. A. Webb Member
since 2000-01-21
Posts 441Stanton, California, USA |
This was e-mail to me after what had happened and sums up my reply to this "piece". Doing my best to contain my discust for this "piece", that's all I'll say. G The following, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. Its subject is "America: The Good Neighbor" Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the ockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon-not once, but several times-and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America! Regret not that which you have done, |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Alan, having read your poem and all the responses most closely yours I was taken back mainly at the timing of this post, obviously you thought this was a good time to highlight your points. Not being American and not having any strong political ties my feelings are less intense due to what happened, I think being irish does not colour my view of events either, I am looking at what happened from a completely humane level. IT was a horrifying attack on a building in peace times. It does not matter the nation in which it happened. Because America is seen as a seat of power, because of its links to most of western Europe, because it is such a strong focal point and because what happens in America directly affects the rest of Europe…….. Because of all these factors yes we are going to America, it is going to become a very highlighted event, more so than say the killing fields of Cambodia for instance. People accept that things like that happen in places like that.. a narrowed view maybe. But we can't all be open-minded all the time. New York City is not suppose to be a place of terrorist attacks, that is what has caused so much shock. Maybe you are trying show people that these attacks happen in other countries and are not given the same intense media focus and there is not the same outpouring or same poetic posts here, that is true, it happens on your doorstep you tend to take a lot more notice. but now is not the time Thousands of people died tragically in an act of terrorism.. that is what happened on 11th of September 2001. "Here I am in prison,here I am with a ball and chain There is whiskey in the jar-o" Traditional irish song. |
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Romy Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170Plantation, Florida |
God Bless America. |
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