Justine (I know, I'm doing lots of names. Pretend you don't notice)

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lizzy-luv
Junior Member

since 2002-10-12

Posts 20
new hampshire..oh, the hicks abound

0 posted 2002-10-13 05:23 PM

6*22*02
She said, ;my door melted last night.;
And they walked in search of
drugs.
         Closing in on her
perfect high.
               escape.
         Concealment.
avoidence.               hide.
Can't find the things she's running.
Lost the way she used to
have >passed up> in favor of
        past
that trip-trail.
Exoskeleton collapsed girl.
And everyone's forgetting
her name.
            But she knows the
saddest part is being misplaced
while she's still here.
         ;Who're you?;
         ;Skippy.;
Just the label.
                 As it collapses.
~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~
This was written for a friend at a very down-spiralling point in her life. Her nickname is Skippy, i'm not sure if that makes sense in context of the poem, I've been thinking of changing the ;Skippy; line to ;Justine.; Should I?

'everyone is broken by something they love and worship'(Fransesca Lia Block)
*lizzy*

Severn
Member Rara Avis

since 1999-07-17

Posts 7704

1 posted 2002-10-13 08:21 PM

Hey there

I like this Lizzy...I'm all for space and play in poetry, and I like the way you play here although I don't think that you're always successful in what you're trying to do.

Firstly, to answer your question - how about you just take the name out completely? If you've titled the poem Justine you don't really need it in your poem - it's obvious who it's about. Skippy is confusing, if you wanted to keep the name in I'd go with Justine.

Well - I'm going to rant about punctuation again people. I'm sorry...can't help it..addicted and whatnot

Ok one major problem I have here is your use of semi-colons. I was speaking to another poet about this the other day who used them much the same way as you have, as a replacement for standard punctuation. (Don't know if you've heard of Gertrude Stein, but she might well have been impressed lol). I'm torn I admit, because playing with punctuation is a hobby of mine (more like, just leaving it out actually)...but here, quite honestly, the semi-colons are distracting. They're not distracting because I can't get past their grammatically correct usage, but because of how they affect the presentation of your poem. Your poem overall is concerned, aside from the meaning of it, with space and texture yes? You've used gaps between words, indentations etc. Now a semicolon is a cluttering kind of glyph. A little dot, then a comma underneath - it sticks out quite a lot. You've trapped phrases between two of these things, and to add to that, because they're representing speechmarks, you have periods/fullstops at the end of the phrases - more confusion.

I'd recommend replacing them with dashes.

Another major problem for me - the periods at the end of every line. I think they are completely unnecessary in most places. Here it comes everyone - yes, I recommend removing ALL your periods and just trying it without them. Check this out:

She said, -my door melted last night-
And they walked in search of
drugs
         Closing in on her
perfect high
               escape
         Concealment
avoidence               hide
Can't find the things she's running
Lost the way she used to
have >passed up> in favor of
        past
that trip-trail
Exoskeleton collapsed girl
And everyone's forgetting
her name
            But she knows the
saddest part is being misplaced
while she's still here
         -Who're you?-
         Just the label
                 As it collapses

The space is freer, the poem is less cluttered. The periods that you used presumably for pause-purposes are now replaced by silence - the space on the page now speaks for itself. Like here, particularly:

Closing in on her
perfect high
               escape
         Concealment
avoidence               hide

You don't need periods to slow the piece down, or create impacts. It works on its own, just because of the way you have put these words on the page. Ever read Charles Olson's poetry? If you're working with this kind of style I suggest you do. (I used an example of one of his poems in a thread in the Poetry Workshop, talking about just this kind of thing - if you're interested, let me know, I'll find the link for you).

I like your two > glyphs however. And by removing the excess punctuation those two glyphs stand out now, they make an impact - they don't with all the periods and semi-colons..they're just two more bits of random punctuation in a poem replete with too much punctuation. Now don't get me wrong - nothing wrong with punctuation, but if you're going to do a poem like this that deals with space to this extent - you have to be careful. I would also suggest reviewing the initial capitals you have here. You could just make all the lines start with lowercase letters, or you could keep them in uppercase - I think that's a matter of preference. Of course if you're going to keep all your periods in, I'd suggest keeping the initial capitals.

Now, the content - for the most part I really like it. I'd suggest removing the word 'perfect' - it's banal. Overused. Boring. I'd suggest removing one of the 'collapsed/collapses' because in a poem like this repetition looks clumsy and you don't want that.

               escape
         Concealment
avoidence               hide'

Although I used this part as an illustration on how the space works in your poem, I think you need to look at this. I like how escape and concealment work together. But then you're basically just repeating that with the 'avoidence' (which should be avoidance) and 'hide.' Do you really want that repetition?

But she knows the
saddest part is being misplaced
while she's still here

do you need the 'while she's still here' - it sounds like over-explaining to me. Being misplaced just says it all, with a nice poetical edge.

You carry your topic well I think - ekoskeleton collapsed girl - I really like that line and to me it's the crux of the poem...

well done - let me know if you want that link..

K

lizzy-luv
Junior Member

since 2002-10-12

Posts 20
new hampshire..oh, the hicks abound

2 posted 2002-10-13 09:42 PM

Weh?
I like punctuation.
I like the repition of collapsed. It's intentional. I always misspell 'avoidance' type words. I have A vs. E issues.
I need all of my periods. I like them. The > thing should frame itself (ie <*>), but HTML codes work under that, and they're turned on, so i have to face them both as greater than signs.
I'm very very very attached to my semicolons. I'm very sorry you don't like them, but they're not moving.
Your period use suggestion was interesting, but I don't think I could ever cut them all out. I'm very much a fan of totally demolishing my flow. It's intentional. Usually it makes more sense (as in, it expresses rage or pain or whatever), but this is more softly sentimental than about 90% of my work. thanks so much for your response, though!

'everyone is broken by something they love and worship'(Fransesca Lia Block)
*lizzy*

clve527
Member

since 2002-07-08

Posts 200

3 posted 2002-10-14 10:07 PM

Do those semi-colons contribute to this poem in a poetic manner too? And if so please explain because if you are going to place an odd attribute like that in a poem it should serve a poetic purpose.

Casey

[This message has been edited by clve527 (10-14-2002 10:08 PM).]

Radrook
Senior Member

since 2002-08-09

Posts 648

4 posted 2002-10-17 01:01 AM

Dear Lizzy

The color you have chosen is very difficult for me to read. It would be easier on my eyes if you used blue, black, or even red.

hush
Senior Member

since 2001-05-27

Posts 1653
Ohio, USA

5 posted 2002-10-17 08:50 AM

I agree about the periods- don't like 'em- but I do lik the semi-colons. I think it's pretty obvious that they're being used ofr quoatation marks, and they are more interesting than italics and little *stars*. I think the semi-colon adds the suggestion that what the persons says is treated as an afterthought. Anyway, sorry I can't be more help right now.

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

6 posted 2002-10-18 11:21 AM

Lizzy, I have to agree with Severn and Casey pretty much on the punctuation. To my thinking, random, nonsensical punctuation not only adds nothing but is very distracting. The only reason I can find for the way you have used it here is because you "like punctuation." If you are writing only for yourself then I suppose that attitude is all right. If you want others to enjoy your work, though, you have to write something that is more generally acceptable. I think your words show promise in this poem. The strange, seemingly random punctuation, however, is distraction enough to cause me, and many others I suspect, from getting the intended impact of the message.

JMHO,
Pete

TJDoat
Junior Member

since 2002-09-29

Posts 26

7 posted 2002-10-19 01:14 AM

I like this, it's good, especially the last line or 2, but I have to admit I'd like better if 'Justine" rather than 'Skippy" where left running through my mind at the end.

As for the punctuation, gotta go with what you feel, I'd like it either way. No matter what anyone says, nothing is written in stone(we have erasers now

), so ignore and break all the rules you can. If it works well, then you've done good(if not, better rethink

).

-Jason

Radrook
Senior Member

since 2002-08-09

Posts 648

8 posted 2002-10-20 02:32 PM

Hi Lizzy!
I overcame the color obstacle by highlighting. Why I did not think of that sooner is beyond me. The following is my take on the poem.

BTW
I ain't messin with most of your punctuation cause you like it the way it is.
But the addition of some punctuation is helpful to the reader and improves the poem's readability. So I added some in order to do that.

She said, ["];my door melted last night.;
And they walked in search of
drugs.["]

[That was a direct quotation.

One function of introductions is to prepare the reader for what comes next. This poem begins with a quotation and thus promises or prepares the reader for an extended quotation. However, the following stops quoting and the author's voice or someone else's comes through suddenly and unexpectedly.]


         Closing in on her
perfect high.
               escape.
         Concealment.
avoidence.               hide.
Can't find the things she's running.

[Since this is the continuation of the quotation, the second person singular is out of sync. It is as if I said to you.; My friend said: "They were after me last night closing in on him...." See what I mean? I do like those single-word-descriptions. They intensify the urgency of the moment when Skippy is rushing about trying to hide the evidence.]

Lost the way she used to
have >passed up> in favor of
        past
that trip-trail.
Exoskeleton [-] collapsed girl.

[I get the gist of the meaning but not the fine detail. But then again, this poem has elements of the surrealistic so no problem. I do like the inclusion of the adjectives 'exoskeleton and "trip trail" which work well in characterization.

However, if you wish to avoid the repetition of the word "collapse" by modifying, these are some possible substitutes:
"exoskeleton imploded girl"
"exoskeleton crumpled girl"
"exoskeleton emaciated girl"
"exoskeleton deprived girl"
"exoskeleton dissolved girl"]

And everyone's forgetting
her name.
            But she knows the
saddest part is being misplaced
while she's still here.

Who're you?;
         ;Skippy.;
Just the label.
                 As it collapses.

[Skippy is a label that collapses? I have difficulty visualizing a label doing that. Perhaps Skippy should be compared with something that is collapsible, like a structure or an inflatable object such as a balloon. Don't get me wrong, I do understand that you are referring to Skippy as a label for a very specific and important reason. So perhaps what is at fault here is the verb collapses?  In short, it is the combination of the two that seems incongruous.]

[This message has been edited by Radrook (10-20-2002 02:41 PM).]

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