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CT: Toe The Line
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CT: Toe The Line |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration 
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Well now. Hmm... Ok, hold on a sec... All right, I'm back... Let's see... Disarming...discern...disciple... Ahh, here it is. Discipline. Now let's see... The point here, is that I had to look up the difference. Which there is a difference, though they can be connected. According to my dictionary, discipline is "training," whereas punishment is the "penalty imposed for a wrongdoing, transgression, et al." Now, it is easy to see where a connection can be made. Given the above, punishment can be the penalty imposed for transgressing the proscription of a given "training," or discipline. OK, that said, here's my thoughts on discipline and punishment where it regards children. (Keep in mind, that I have no children myself, and may be unaware of some of the accompanying things that are unknown until you have kids. I am only speaking from opinion, based on what I've heard from others with children, and from the little I've read regarding the subject.) Discipline: Necessary? Absolutely. Obviously, we can't allow a child to wander free, completely able to do what they should wish. Most things that are acceptable within society, are things which have to be taught, in order to be known. The natural tendancy of children, is to satisfy their whims, as well as their curiosities. Many times, these are not what are considered acceptable forms of behavior. Included among these things, are the simple ones, such as being taught where to use the restroom, what is appropriate table behaviour, how to respond to those around you. Added to the things taught can include things such as sexual propriety, (children are far from bashful about nakedness!) Responsibility is another big one. It would border on neglect, to allow a child complete freedom from responsibility. I agree completely with the necessity of allowing them to "be children," but it needs to be tempered with at least a little responsibility. Otherwise, what will they do when they are forced into the "real" world? With no "training," they will be unprepared, and likely incapable of dealing with life. But all the above is based on perspective, and varies with each person, how much of this should be required, and how much should that be curtailed. Probably most people, rear their children according in part to how they were aised, (whether as they were raised, or opposite of how they were raised,) and according to their particular emotions at a given moment. I hope I'm not straying too far from the subject here... Anyway, it is my belief that the decision of what type/degree of discipline or punishment can and should vary with each child. I don't believe in the textbook, "Dr. Spock," method of raising a child. Nor do I believe Bill Gothard has all the answers, though I think he touches better on the subject. I think that (personally,) all the people who have children, should do their best to get to know their child. As with adults, each child has their own personality, their own... (dare I say it???) demons, which causes them to respond to stimuli in varying ways. What might be an excellent form of discipline for one child, is probably the worst for the next. It depends upon each one's unique personality, as to which will have the best results. For example, my family. I am the oldest, Adam after me, Joshua a few years later, then finally Kathryn. (you can see the religious household all the way up until my sister huh?)  Here's a breakdown, of what was determined, (after the fact of course, hindsight being 20-20 and all!) by my mother as to the best form of discipline. Me: Subject to terrible feelings of guilt whenever I felt that I had dissapointed anyone I cared about. To me, the feelings of others, determines my mood. The best form of discipline: Make me feel guilty. For me, it was far better to get a spanking, as opposed to my mother telling me she was disappointed in me...anything but that! Adam: The rebel, black sheep of the family. To him, punishment was a form of attention that he found lacking in his life. To spank or scold him, was to provide that attention. The best form of discipline: Ignore him. I know that sounds bad, but when he was punished, it perpetuated rather than curtailed the behaviour. Instead, when ignored while doing "bad" things, and praised when being "good," he thrived. (or throve...) Joshua: Arrgh! The hardest one out of all, says my mother. Spank him, he shrugs. Send him to his room, he watches TV. Take away the TV, he reads. Take away the books, he stares at the ceiling. Nothing seems to bother this boy. Best form of punishment: Derision. Sounds bad again, but it's not like it seems. Joshua can't abide people to think badly of him or his thoughts. So when the behaviour is unbefitting, be snide. When he is "good," tell him what wonderful ideas he has and what a great mind he is. (He really is, one of the smartest (book-like) people I know! Kathryn: Arrgh again, this time, a girl raised in a house full of..icky...boys! Spoiled rotten doubly, by being the only girl as well as being the youngest, Kathryn was a bundle of error by the time she was ten. But like many girls, her friends and styles, music and television was important. Best form of punishment: Probably what is considered standard. By the this time, my mother had the experience of three other children under her belt and had learned to look for what suited each personality the best. Ironically enough, what proved most effective with my sister, was the same punishment that she felt she used wrongly for the other three. The standard groundation, can't see friends, can't watch TV. Go figure...(also by this time, my mother no longer believed in spanking...don't I wish...!) Anyway, that is a bit of my opinion. As I said, having no children, I am far from being an authority. But I also think it does't matter how many children you have, you can never be an overall authority, because each child is different, and each has different requirements to prepare them for life. Addendum: Added to my personal beliefs, it is NEVER right to abuse children, either by words or physical means. I think that mild spanking may prove effective, but that more can be accomplished with most by other that physical pain. For some, it may be the only recourse, but only after other methods have failed, and never to excess. I also believe that any spanking should be done by hand and never with an object. Christopher |
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PhaerieChild Senior Member
since 1999-08-30
Posts 1787Aloha, Oregon |
Well said Christopher...Having raised 7 kids (5 of mine and 2 step) I am the first to attest that what works for one does not necessarily work for the others. And I believe that you are right when it comes to boys vs. girls though only having 1 girl I can't say for sure. I do know that all six boys were very distinctly different animals. They all had their own form of discipline and sometimes it didn't seem fair that one would get grounded while another was told to go somewhere else. One was addicted to the computer and so any punishment was associated with that while one wanted desperately to hang out with friends and such and was grounded. Another one who finally got a car was put to work around the house and the one who had a bicycle was sent to run errands that he didn't want to run. It's hard to raise kids to be productive not only by society's terms but also in terms of themselves. I now have 2 grandchildren and I am finally seeing some fruits of my labors being used with them and the same love that was given is being given again from my kids to their kids. I never did believe in corporal punishment other than a smack on a hand or padded butt once in awhile. Even that shouldn't happen after say age 4 or 5. By that time communication lines should be fairly well established. When I first was married to my present husband his children had not had much in the way of disipline and I remember the first time I had to deal with his son (although he's mine too now) we were at Wal Mart and he wanted something in the toy section that just wasn't going to be given and he threw this coniption fit that just blew everybody away. I was mortified but couldn't get him to stop this temper tantrum. Finally I just got down on the floor with him and started kickin' my feet and yellin "No you can't have it!!" He got up and came over to me and kept whispering "Mom get up!!! You're lookin' real stupid" and I said something to the effect of "And you didn't?!" Well, needless to say he never did that again. He was almost six at the time and that lesson really stuck with him. To this day (he's now 21) he still remembers that episode. Anywayu before I go all off here I want you to know that I agree that abuse is not the answer and neither is neglect. Ya just gotta find what works. Anyway off to work now. ------------------ Words lay dormant in the recesses of the mind til called forth to a labor of love. By WildChild |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
With the thoughts of my friends problems on my mind (see open forum "Little Johhny,") I thought this would be a good time to take this back up to the top. And to add a thought....we're getting few challenge suggestions...ummm, ok, none actually. So whyy don't we all try to think of a few K? |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
'Twould work well if some would contribute to our CT list. ------------------ Nothing is worse than sorrow, except perhaps disdain. I'll be myself tomorrow, tonight I'll feel the pain. DreamEvil© |
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Watcher666 Senior Member
since 1999-10-13
Posts 1606 |
I agree Christopher.Each child should be dicip;ined according to his own personality.What is punishment for one is a joy for another.And yes parents need to be closer to their children.An oft forgotten thing in these busy times.There's nothing wrong with a quick tap on the butt,but beatings should never be.Well done wolf....well done! ------------------ Illusion...what we see and what we do...it's all up to you. |
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