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another failed revolt
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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another failed revolt |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
a shorty for ya'll: 2+2=5? this ain't 1984 the borgeoise are on the threshing floor grab yer sickle, grab yer scythe this stuff has reached it's height the grain has come to head... yeah, i know you don't wanna fight you'ld rather join 'em instead "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..." -janis joplin |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I like this, but I think you could get a little more specific- give better descriptions of 'this stuff' and the them that's being joined- I think the idea is communicated, but it's like a photo that's slightly out of focus- it could be improved just that little bit. everything's fine. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Have to agree with Hush here. I see the point of having it as a short piece BUT...the subject matter is so rich...it's been done before of course, but I do like the imagery. Mind you, I was wondering - if the proletariat (for I assume that is who the 'you' is) want to join the bourgeois (not 'borgeoise') who are already on the threshing floor...then, surely the proletariat are not rising anywhere at all? Nit picky things: 'reach it's height' needs to be 'reach its height' and you have a typo on 'you'd.'  KI am a refugee of logic...insisting |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
the fact that on does not rise by joining them was the point. i like "you'ld" better than "you'd", that was on purpose...thanks to you and hush though...oh yeah, all the obscurity stuff, "join 'em" would refer to joining the bourgeoisueoiesueuigeis or however you spell it and the "stuff" just fell under the crop theme, it wasn't anything specific thanks for the info though "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..." -janis joplin |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
I thought it might have been on purpose...and now that you've confirmed it is can you see how expanding it might help the overall read? K(remembering that any successful revolution soon becomes part of the new-norm anyway...) |
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PoemCrazy Member
since 2000-11-30
Posts 159 |
Hi! this is the "critical analysis" forum, yes? ok, first critique would be "read some history" > 2+2=5? this ain't 1984 if the Czar said "2+2=5" and you disagreed, you disappeared. Revolutions make sense then. > the borgeoise are on the threshing floor let 'em try to dig a hole with silver spoons! takes a shovel to do that. > grab yer sickle, grab yer scythe good, forged-steel tools. the stuff that people who have worked for a living might use. > this stuff has reached it's height Yes, i find most "royalty" quite tiring too. > the grain has come to head... "Reaping what they've sown" - good image! > yeah, i know you don't wanna fight it's usually a big waste of time. usually. but what country are you from and did the folks who founded that like being subjected to any kind of "royalty"? > you'ld rather join 'em instead join who? join the royals? no thanks, i'd rather pluck out my eyes. join the people who get things done? where's the line? neat poem! do more like this!...tom |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
PoemCrazy- It seems to me that rich-pa was referring not to any real historic event but to an overall theme (and specific ideas) in the book 1984, in which the government could change any basic fact by means of destroying all proof otherwise and replacing it with new documentation, even the sum of 2 and 2. everything's fine. |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
rich-pa, I have to admit that I am a big fan of the book 1984. I think name checking may have helped explain the theme of your poem and the images of tools and farming equitment would tie in the socialist/russian revolution. THe problem with your poem I think is that it does not in my mind answer or pose questions. I believe you need a new angle. If you are passionate about the subject the theme then let us feel it. If not then I don't think it is a wise idea to write about something that has been well covered and well written about without doing some research. I don't mean to sound harsh, forgive me if I do but part of being a good poet is feeling and understanding your subject. If a poet can't do that then the poem will fail. "Like Sand underneath the snow, I make you mine." Kristin Hersh [This message has been edited by brian madden (edited 07-05-2001).] |
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PoemCrazy Member
since 2000-11-30
Posts 159 |
Hi hush, hey, i liked the poem! my response was on the night of July 4th, a celebration of the American Revolution. The Bolsheviks did, in effect, the same as the Americans. That revolution didn't fail, it was the bureaucracy that came afterwards, mostly due to doing things like you described....tom |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
i disagree, brian, i think it poses lotsa questions, i see some other problems i have with it, but i think it poses questions. you said don't write unless there is passion and i think i did, not all passion is positive, and what if i write through despair, a reason that it is as short as it is. and research? hoohoohoo, what is research? should i look into my thoughts, an encyclopedia a dictionary a history book, other poets works? i'm done, it's just that i don't like to be accused of not understanding or feeling my subject "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..." -janis joplin |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Rich-Pa, I did not say that you did not pose lots of questions, I just would like to see your angle on this. I did not sense it in the piece. I know all passion is not positive, but to take the voice of, say, a revolutionary you should make us feel this is his voice. A poet is an actor and a writer. If you are to write outside of your own experiences yes research is a good idea. You were making a statement with your poem, for instance if you want to write a poem about a historical figure you should, all writers should, understand the person. You can't rewrite history. I am sorry if I touched a sore spot, I was just trying to help. I stick to my opinions. Write what you know. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
quote: Hey Bri...don't you think this just broke a golden rule? Perhaps a better way to phrase this would be something like In my opinion I think it's important to make the reader hear the voice of a revolutionary. While I agree with you in this case - I don't think it's going to go down well, informing a writer of what they should or shouldn't be doing as if that's the only option. That's a cause for revolution (or at least rebellion) my friend.  K[This message has been edited by Severn (edited 07-07-2001).] |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
first,brian, you did say that it posed no questions, it's right there in yer post, no crawfishing allowed on that one. um, i brought up the research thing because i thought it unnecessary, i was writing out of my own experiences. this is in no way a historical piece. it contains historical allusions but i was far from trying to tell about history, i could care less if one knows about the bolshevik revolution. i can't rewrite history? well i'ld argue i could if a i wanted to, but i never tried nor plan to do so. "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..." -janis joplin |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Kamla, you are right. In certain countries I could be lynched for this, I lacked tact with my reply. Your point taken. Rich-Pa, I stand by my points, but I know I lacked a certain tack with my reply. I apologise if I stood on your toes or if my reply sounded like an attack it was meant to. In my option from my reading I saw the poem in historical context, the reference to 1984 backed that up for. I did not realise that it was a personal account. I just believe that a poet should have full knowledge of their subject, it makes the poetry stronger and also if the poet understands their subject then they can add layers to theme and still keep it true to its context. That is all I was trying to say prehaps my reading of the poem was wrong, but I would like to see you let those images breath more. OK I will shut up now and leave you alone. Again no disrespect meant my friend. |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
no disrespect taken since we understand each other now, all a misunderstanding, i agree with you that a poet should know his work and i took offense that you said i didn't because this was in no way a historical piece..the 1984 reference is to the book "1984" by geaorge orwell in which a tyrannical govt with so much power that it tells it's people 2+2=5 and they believe it, is in control, i agree that it could use some expansion though, thanks, i liked the debate, as useless as it was since we really agreed, we only disagreed on what we agreed...if that makes sense. ohj well "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..." -janis joplin |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Rich-pa, I know the book 1984 well. One of my favourite books. If you like the book check out the film Brazil by Terry Gilliam. I am glad that everything is cool. I too enjoyed our debate, but a peaceful amtosphere is promoted here, and I don't want to be the one who starts a war with another poet. Puzzled by your last comment lol. We agreed? let's just agree to disagree. I glad that you took note of the expansion comment. If you a rewrite I look forward to reading that as well as your other poetry so that I can this poem in context. "War is Peace Slavery is Freedom Ignorance is strength. " "Like Sand underneath the snow, I make you mine." Kristin Hersh |
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